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HasanAbi

🤬CHICAGO🤬SOCIALISM CONFERENCE🤬LINDSEY CLANCY MISTRIAL🤬SATURDAY FUNDAY🤬STRAIT CLOSED💢OIL$ RISES💢 - !guest

09-05-2026 · 6h 42m

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[00:04:00] I
[00:08:00] big booty bill
[00:08:12] i call it big booty bill his booty is booty cheeks um fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
[00:08:19] you say please please it's too much winning we can't take it anymore
[00:08:33] No worry, I'm gonna talk about the Big Booty Chase Bill.
[00:09:01] what's going on everybody I hope everyone's having a fantastic evening afternoon pre noon
[00:09:08] no matter where you are in the world of my son piker in this awesome our broadcast coming
[00:09:12] to you live from Chicago Chicago Chicago Illinois folks we are live we're alive and I hope
[00:09:20] all boys girls and MBS are having a fantastic one because today's a beautiful day today's
[00:09:24] wonderful day. Today, ladies and gentlemen, is Saturday. That's right. It is Saturday.
[00:09:35] And I hope everyone's having a fantastic one on this wonderful, uh, joyous Saturday, a
[00:09:40] beautiful Saturday. Uh, it is Saturday, September 5th, 2026. We are live. We are alive.
[00:09:52] and I hope everyone is having a wonderful time.
[00:09:55] It's Labor Day weekend, right?
[00:10:00] I think it's Labor Day weekend.
[00:10:02] No more wearing white after the end of summer, baby.
[00:10:07] No more wearing white for pants.
[00:10:12] Not that I got a good amount of time to wear white,
[00:10:19] white underpants, white pants in general.
[00:10:22] I don't even know why I'm talking about this.
[00:10:23] I'm all over the place.
[00:10:24] Ladies and gentlemen, yes, I will be watching Connor,
[00:10:27] Eats, Pants, and Nick, Shirley, of course.
[00:10:33] Fortnite Friday, my favorite, the greatest,
[00:10:35] the last bastion of real reporting,
[00:10:37] the real journalism, the last bastion folks.
[00:10:40] You already know.
[00:10:41] Anyway.
[00:10:46] Folks, folks, folks.
[00:10:47] This is part of the broadcast where I tell you
[00:10:48] about my personal news.
[00:10:49] And honestly, I have a journalist.
[00:10:51] It's like writing the super long profile with me
[00:10:54] that's been around since the midterms with Abdul El Sayed.
[00:10:59] And he's here for the Socialism Conference as well.
[00:11:03] And after I got done with that long interview
[00:11:06] with Nura last night, we went to Oceval.
[00:11:12] We went to Oceval to grab a Berg.
[00:11:14] We went and we got a bird. Not just any bird, mind you, the bird, right? For those of you
[00:11:30] who don't know, a cheval is supposed to be one of the best birds in the country. It's
[00:11:35] pretty good. We had bone marrow, decadent dining experience, all this good stuff. And
[00:11:44] We talked and let me tell you folks,
[00:11:46] I need to tell you something about,
[00:11:49] I need to tell you an anecdote.
[00:11:52] I need to give you guys an anecdote
[00:11:54] because many of you are wondering like
[00:11:56] what this negative media coverage has done
[00:11:59] to my mental health, how I'm doing,
[00:12:04] is it good?
[00:12:05] Is it not good is it bad is it fucking me up now
[00:12:21] Obviously, it's not great to be misunderstood professionally by professional misunderstanders. It's not great
[00:12:28] But I will tell you this I would tell you this two things one
[00:12:32] Of course, when I go to conferences like this, it's all love, it's all solidarity, and it
[00:12:38] gives me a lot of confidence, right?
[00:12:41] But outside of that, outside of that, one of the things that I have noticed, and yes,
[00:12:48] by the way, the tie clip is a train, and so is the pin.
[00:12:53] This is a USSR train tie clip that one of you guys gave me yesterday at the conference
[00:13:00] instantly on the rotation, instantly my favorite new vintage type in.
[00:13:09] Psyclips, sorry.
[00:13:13] So yeah, thank you for that.
[00:13:18] But also, but also, but also, but also,
[00:13:30] As I was saying, in my experience, beyond solidarity, beyond the comradely engagement
[00:13:38] from people of good intent, people who are like-minded, there is something, there is something
[00:13:49] to be said about all this negative media coverage.
[00:13:52] It turns out, this is an anecdote, but I get stopped quite a lot more nowadays.
[00:13:59] And I used to get stopped quite a lot, regardless, right?
[00:14:03] Always, always.
[00:14:06] This is an important message.
[00:14:07] Okay, stop.
[00:14:12] I used to get stopped a lot wherever I went, especially as of late.
[00:14:19] It has increased tenfold.
[00:14:22] And it's a very, very common experience where I assume always that it's going to
[00:14:28] be negative, right? Because it's like there's so much negative coverage around me. I assume
[00:14:32] that someone's going to stop me to take a photo or the instead of taking a photo, they're
[00:14:36] gonna be like, Oh, fuck you, you're a bad guy. No. It's quite the opposite. It turns
[00:14:43] out all of this negative coverage only makes people go, dude, fuck yeah, stick it to
[00:14:51] I think it's because people absolutely despise a lot of not only establishment media
[00:14:59] but I think they also despise a lot of establishment politicians like they have no loyalty to the Democratic Party
[00:15:07] they have no loyalty to the Republican Party and they certainly do not really enjoy the coverage
[00:15:13] coming out of Fox News, CNN, and MSNOW, so when they see both of these forces of
[00:15:20] corporate media on both sides of the ideological spectrum coming after me with
[00:15:28] a level of aggression that was previously only given to the likes of
[00:15:33] Donald Trump when he ran for president in 2015, I swear to God there's this
[00:15:39] negative polarization that happens, and people genuinely, genuinely think more positively
[00:15:49] about me.
[00:15:52] And I did not expect it, I'm gonna be honest, I did not expect this to happen.
[00:15:57] I thought, I thought sincerely that this level of negative media coverage was eventually going
[00:16:04] to cause people that see me in the in the real world like regular ass normies to go yeah
[00:16:11] I've heard a lot about you I don't really fuck with what you're about no every single uber
[00:16:17] I get into they're like I recognize your face I'm like uh-oh here we go and it's like an
[00:16:21] old ass on every single uber I get into people stop me on the road they're like wait
[00:16:28] a minute I know who you are and I and my my initial assumption is oh here we go
[00:16:33] Is it going to be negative? Is it going to be negative? Like I don't want to tempt fate here, but I
[00:16:39] Expect it to be a negative interaction
[00:16:42] It's never a negative interaction. It's been shocking. It has been shocking especially from unks
[00:16:53] Especially when I go to bars and stuff like that
[00:16:57] normies
[00:16:58] Do not look at that negative coverage and think oh you're a bad guy
[00:17:32] That's my suspicion at least.
[00:17:34] I think people really, really don't like the way that establishment media operates, especially
[00:17:43] around the issue of Israel for sure.
[00:17:46] And they certainly don't like the establishment Democrats in the feckless nature, and they
[00:17:50] don't like that the Republicans are ruining everything.
[00:17:52] So we are not lonely around these parts.
[00:17:56] There are many people who will become allies or are already allies without even watching
[00:18:02] us at all, without even knowing about us at all.
[00:18:06] They feel the same sense of anxiety about the downward trajectory of America.
[00:18:13] I've seen it with my own two fucking eyes, I promise you.
[00:18:17] Anyway, on that note, let's get started.
[00:18:19] I did a Fox News interview, like a very long Fox News interview with a reporter that
[00:18:24] The bird dog me that stream sniped me on the streets in New Yorkie is in Chicago and he
[00:18:29] was like, hey, can we do it again?
[00:18:31] This will get distributed Fox News National across the board.
[00:18:35] This will get distributed across the board on Fox News National on all their programming.
[00:18:43] I said yes.
[00:18:45] Did you get my USSR shirt and style book from Christian at the SF show?
[00:18:53] the shirt, but I did get the style book. I did not get the USSR shirt. I wonder if
[00:18:59] Christian kept it for himself, but I did get the book and the book is amazing.
[00:19:03] Thank you, chatter. Anyway, Chicago Socialism Conference Day 2. Not really
[00:19:11] doing much for Socialism Conference Day 2 today though, but I will be, I will
[00:19:17] be talking about Ukraine, Russia, and also Iranian, three Iranian tankers struck by US
[00:19:32] Socialism Conference, Lindsay Colancey, Ms. Trial, Saturday Funday, Strayclothes, Oil
[00:19:36] Rises.
[00:19:37] Get in now.
[00:19:41] Twitch.tv, Flash, Hasanavi, when will you be in Boston Stare?
[00:19:54] You did a great job at the panel. I was there. I have the second question. Thank you.
[00:19:59] I mean, I didn't really do much for the panel.
[00:20:04] People who are asking me like, you know, what's it?
[00:20:08] I saw a lot of the comments in the chat. They were like, why is this song not talking? It was kind of funny that you guys were getting pair of social guys. I'm not there to talk myself. I'm there to, I'm a fucking moderator. I was the moderator. I was there to offer a platform to, you know, the DSA co chairs, the
[00:20:24] These are national co-chairs.
[00:20:28] I was there to talk or let them talk about the national platform and the workers deserve
[00:20:39] more as a program.
[00:20:42] That's what it was.
[00:20:44] It's okay.
[00:20:45] You can say you're shy.
[00:20:46] Bitch, you've seen me in public.
[00:20:47] You think I'm shy?
[00:20:48] What are you crazy?
[00:20:49] I love talking to a microphone.
[00:20:50] do it for eight hours a day.
[00:20:57] So yeah.
[00:21:02] Thoughts on so many people seemingly forgiving kind
[00:21:03] for his actions, 140,000 people attended his concert
[00:21:06] in Chicago the past few days.
[00:21:07] Yeah, I mean, it's his hometown, I think it makes sense.
[00:21:11] But yeah, I don't think people give a shit.
[00:21:13] I'm gonna be honest with you,
[00:21:14] I don't think people give a shit about anything.
[00:21:16] I'm learning myself right now in real time.
[00:21:20] It is pretty crazy to watch I just I think I I mean this seriously
[00:21:28] I don't think normies care about anything that the media says dude the media could present someone is like a dangerous
[00:21:34] Terrorism most normies are like I don't care does he make good music?
[00:21:40] They just don't care
[00:21:43] They know the controversies they don't give a shit I think most normies also don't give a shit about any
[00:21:48] any
[00:21:50] I don't think they care about any controversies or any form of bigotry at all
[00:21:56] right
[00:21:57] P Rosenberg says a lot of people I love are being openly lay about kind
[00:22:01] I'm not saying no one deserves forgiveness or empathy, but this man saying how Hitler one year ago disappointed in a lot of people
[00:22:06] Yeah
[00:22:10] No, I just I don't think they care I it's a being a woke warrior
[00:22:15] Being the woke warrior that you guys know for years and years have made me come to a
[00:22:25] sad recognition
[00:22:28] and
[00:22:29] That is people do not give a single solitary shred of a shit
[00:22:38] Partially how Trump got elected people just don't care
[00:22:41] But even the 9-11 stuff, even the 9-11 stuff, like people try to make people care, right?
[00:22:50] Aggressively.
[00:22:51] Right?
[00:22:52] That's like the number one thing that people hit me on.
[00:22:56] They're like, oh, what about, what about what this guy said about 9-11?
[00:23:00] Look at this TikTok.
[00:23:03] Eight hours ago.
[00:23:05] Already at 50,000 likes.
[00:23:08] It is north tower and then south okay there's just one more thing we can't tell anybody
[00:23:21] What we're doing
[00:23:23] You should see the replies.
[00:23:53] the
[00:24:05] the
[00:24:15] up on the series like I look I conduct myself away I conduct myself in a way
[00:24:27] , in a particular way because I care about you know how my message spreads right obviously I'm not saying like optics don't matter the
[00:24:28] They certainly do here's a longer clip of the trailer
[00:24:35] What will become of me Rudy Giuliani, nursing the wounds of a lost race for a senator?
[00:24:40] Would the skies not open up and bestow the gifts of a sterling reputation?
[00:24:45] Payback shall be mine and thy name is Hillary!
[00:24:49] I'm falling behind in the pools.
[00:24:53] What what could we do to get the people behind me?
[00:24:56] We need a controversy!
[00:24:58] Something!
[00:24:59] We can make more arrests!
[00:25:01] Bigger!
[00:25:02] Open the vets!
[00:25:04] Bigger!
[00:25:05] I better win for the Jets!
[00:25:07] Bigger!
[00:25:10] It's perfect.
[00:25:26] I
[00:25:35] What is this show brother, I don't even know what the fuck this is
[00:25:47] He did my boy Ross Perot dirty
[00:25:56] to
[00:26:05] Why is your camera angle so high it makes your head look big you're not fooling us? Oh no, what in the David Lynch is that?
[00:26:16] The movie is called the musical is this our generation's producers is that what it is?
[00:26:26] But instead of like Nazis, it's a 9-11 being an inside job, not even crafted by George W. Bush, but by Rudy Giuliani.
[00:26:35] I love that.
[00:26:37] That's very funny. That is a very, very funny premise.
[00:26:44] Famous lawyer on Clancy.
[00:26:46] All of your videos are in my mind. There is a huge-
[00:26:48] Okay, okay, okay. We'll do the Clancy stuff in a second.
[00:26:55] We need your take on this, Kyrgyzstan defeats China in horse wrestling at the world nomad
[00:27:05] games judging by name.
[00:27:06] Chinese athlete is either an ethnic Kyrgyz or a Kazakh from Mishin Jon.
[00:27:36] I didn't even know that was a thing bro talk about the newer interview what do you mean
[00:27:50] talk about the newer ericott interview we did the interview you can go watch it on youtube
[00:27:55] I think it was good I hope you guys enjoyed it I hope you guys were not only entertained
[00:28:00] but also educated in the process.
[00:28:03] Neuroarricot is a wonderful person, brilliant person.
[00:28:09] And what the hell?
[00:28:10] Why isn't this loading?
[00:28:14] Yeah.
[00:28:15] What decolonizing Israel looks like with Professor Neurocot
[00:28:18] full interview?
[00:28:26] I'm disgusted by your habit of reading and encouraging it.
[00:28:29] what
[00:28:37] learned a ton yeah
[00:28:39] the first like thirty five twenty minutes is just like kind of boring
[00:28:42] international law but then we open up and we talk about all these other things
[00:28:46] right
[00:28:49] turkey has your own medals at these games fake nomads yeah i agree this fucking
[00:28:54] bullshit
[00:28:56] But I guess it's more of like a OG Turkic thing, right?
[00:28:59] It's a OG Turkic thing.
[00:29:02] Cause I, in my whole life, I've never heard of horse wrestling.
[00:29:06] I never, I didn't even know that was a thing.
[00:29:11] Yeah, the Turks are fake horse lords.
[00:29:13] And honestly, as a horse girl and a Turk,
[00:29:16] I feel kind of embarrassed about this
[00:29:17] because I feel like this is, you know,
[00:29:19] something that I would love to do,
[00:29:21] something that I could be potentially good at.
[00:29:24] something that i was basically bred to do you know and i mean i know how to ride
[00:29:28] horses
[00:29:29] i could wrestle
[00:29:32] so yeah i i feel a little bit embarrassed that i didn't even know that
[00:29:36] horse wrestling was a thing
[00:29:39] and i am uh... additionally embarrassed that
[00:29:42] uh... turkey is not represented in the world nomad games like you got russia
[00:29:46] with three
[00:29:48] ranking in the top three kuzhistan kuzhistan obviously uh... at number
[00:29:52] number one and number two, Mongolia, number four, being defeated by Russia is a shame.
[00:29:57] Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Moldova, Pakistan, South Korea.
[00:30:03] What the hell?
[00:30:22] the crowdfave team was USA the Kuduguz Kirk Buddha team defeated team USA in a
[00:30:30] very intense game lad howl won the hearts of the Kuduguz crowd with his
[00:30:34] true warrior spirit
[00:30:37] is that a is that a headless goat or sheep that they're dumping into a what the hell
[00:31:01] That's a headless sheep.
[00:31:05] I think.
[00:31:08] They're fighting over a dead goat. It's called Buskashi.
[00:31:14] It's alive?
[00:31:31] this guy looks like he would be doing the nomad games bro okay no this is animal abuse
[00:31:41] I hate it that shit is not a lie bro that was a headless goat for sure they chopped the
[00:31:49] head off that goat.
[00:32:19] they're dunking yeah Jimmy buckets over here what the fuck they're dunking the
[00:32:27] motherfucking goat in there that's crazy you know he's CIA bro why would he be
[00:32:33] CIA I think he's just like straight up a fucking dude who loves this shit
[00:33:10] I
[00:33:13] Don't get it man. It's a fucking very strange competition like what?
[00:33:21] What I can't be fascinated by the world nomad games I just found out it exists
[00:33:27] Why do people turn into like Peter Warriors all of a sudden? It's like I don't see your ass not eating meat, okay?
[00:33:40] it.
[00:33:46] That chatter said chatter said it's soft power.
[00:34:00] Yeah, bro, unlike in the United States of America, at least the people who are participating
[00:34:09] in this fucking rodeo are not like, you know, slave criminals, okay?
[00:34:22] engaging in slave labor in the prison system.
[00:34:43] Is this part of the Turkish tradition?
[00:34:44] No, I mean this is Turkic, but we don't do this stuff in Turkey, which is, dude, we're
[00:34:49] fake we're fake Mongols bro Turks are Turks are fake Mongols every day all
[00:34:57] day every day what a disaster this is dude this is supposed to be my my like
[00:35:02] mythological culture you know the culture of my people this is how this
[00:35:08] is how Turks don't say fake Turk Turks are fake Turk let's be real this is
[00:35:14] like what my fucking ancestors were doing right
[00:35:18] for hundreds of years this is like Central Asia
[00:35:22] the Asian steps
[00:35:24] it's the nomad games the the turkic people were nomadic peoples
[00:35:29] meanwhile now what do turk what do turks do they sit around
[00:35:34] smoke cigarettes vape
[00:35:36] okay
[00:35:37] watch fishik dash
[00:35:40] and fucking complain about out of the on
[00:35:47] two thousand years of shared history and cultural heritage
[00:35:51] cast aside
[00:35:55] all we do is smoke not a good day
[00:35:58] okay
[00:35:59] they with the other hand not a good on the one hand they found the other
[00:36:04] plate of love
[00:36:06] and fucking watch
[00:36:08] watch Fenerbahçe, watch Galatasaray, what happened?
[00:36:11] what happened to my people?
[00:36:13] this is our culture
[00:36:15] this is our heritage
[00:36:17] we can't even do it
[00:36:19] what are they doing?
[00:36:21] what have they done?
[00:36:23] what have we done?
[00:36:25] what have we done?
[00:36:27] I'm not a fan of this, okay?
[00:36:29] but it's a shame, it's a shame
[00:36:32] What's not get it not get it is hooker she show
[00:36:42] We got an American that looks like liver king post TRT
[00:36:49] Beating our asses up and down bro. You got an American doing what Turks have done for
[00:36:55] 2000 fucking years dude and doing it better shame on us shame on me too. I'm a I'm a horse girl
[00:37:02] I didn't even know this competition existed
[00:37:07] Show chat there's a velikon. Oh, yeah, I've seen yeah watch this Iranian giant is beating everyone at the world know my games
[00:37:14] It could because it's done. Let's do a ground invasion of rum brother got nithilum over there
[00:37:25] Bro imagine having to fucking fight this guy I would quit what do you mean?
[00:38:01] I
[00:38:07] You've talked about buskashi on fear and wait, did we I
[00:38:15] Thought the one that we were talking about is the slap one bush kashi every less work wish kashi. Oh
[00:38:22] My god
[00:38:25] He's right
[00:38:27] We did
[00:38:29] It's actually in Rambo three so they cut off the heads and legs of a goat.
[00:38:35] So it's a goat's torso.
[00:38:37] And then it's like it's like rugby but mixed with polo where you're on horseback
[00:38:42] and you have to lift this carcass up and throw it in a well and you jump into the well.
[00:38:47] You're fucked with the go but people get up and you're going to go home.
[00:38:53] Bro, there's so much going on in the world.
[00:38:56] bro there's so much going on in the world god damn it the world is such a
[00:39:00] beautiful place man I wish we just stopped fighting one another not to get
[00:39:04] all weird and sentimental about it but like brother that is crazy like that's
[00:39:10] a whole ass this there's a whole ass world out there man there is an
[00:39:15] entire universe out there that I apparently learned about and forgot
[00:39:20] about it already
[00:39:33] Reza, Reza Velikhan
[00:39:41] I mean, what do you mean, you grew up in Ankara in Istanbul, where do you know about the future?
[00:39:45] I don't know animal abuse doesn't sound very beautiful oh my god brother okay dude go
[00:40:13] cancel them then okay yes I'm going to Mongolia I'm going to
[00:40:19] Kyrgyzstan to tell them what's what okay you give them a stern talking to not
[00:40:25] everything needs you know liberal western liberal intervention okay sometimes
[00:40:31] it's okay to sit back and just wash from afar all right sometimes it's
[00:40:37] appropriate to just sit back and watch from afar you know what I mean can we
[00:40:43] do that sometimes without everybody getting a stern talk into from us that is all is 610 373
[00:40:52] pounds holy fuck dude I'm 642 30 just think about that
[00:41:01] is the Turk conversation glazing you or cooking you probably
[00:41:04] This is a Turkish TikToker saying like the number one political commentator is at the
[00:41:18] heart of the, they're saying he fundraised a 1.5 million dollars.
[00:41:25] I wonder if he sent it.
[00:41:28] Someone says of course he did.
[00:41:29] What kind of question is that?
[00:41:33] question is this guy, did this guy shock his dog? This guy says he's not a real
[00:41:42] Turk, he criticizes Turkey a lot. A lot of dog shocking. He recognizes, if I'm not
[00:41:52] mistaken, doesn't he recognize the Armenian genocide? It's mostly, yeah, it's
[00:42:01] It's mostly negative. It's mostly negative. I've talked about this before. My position,
[00:42:11] my world view is not exactly popular in America, right? It's getting more popular here in America
[00:42:18] now, but it's also not exactly popular in Turkey either. Turks are susceptible to the
[00:42:29] same like propaganda initiatives that work out here as well. So for example, a lot of them,
[00:42:40] a lot of them are frustrated because some of them say I'm a Fethulak Yulan asset. Fethulak Yulan is
[00:42:46] the American CIA asset that was a the Muslim cleric that lived in the Poconos and his content
[00:42:54] is from that cult, right? And they think automatically like, oh, I criticize Turkey, I recognize the
[00:43:01] Armenian genocide, I must hate Turkey, I must be a CIA agent, I must be like a fitulat
[00:43:08] like you didn't.
[00:43:13] Most of the comments, there's only one comment that says I'm a king.
[00:43:27] Because you have to remember, Turkish politics was absolutely destroyed by the Cold War.
[00:43:34] Okay?
[00:43:36] In Turkey, a lot of the left movement, a lot of the socialist movement, a lot of the workers
[00:43:40] movement was very specifically associated with the Kurdish revolutionaries because there
[00:43:48] were a lot of Kurds that were firmly a part of the anti-imperialist Turkish socialist movement.
[00:43:56] So there's that element, there's the element of nationalism, because Turkey is a much
[00:44:02] more nationalistic country.
[00:44:03] is a much, much more nationalistic country than the United States of America is, right?
[00:44:11] And therefore, on the one hand, there is a sense of pride and a sense of excitement that
[00:44:16] I as a Turkish person have been able to make such an, such an outsized impact on American
[00:44:22] politics, but then there are still a lot of, there's still a lot of like hatred and
[00:44:29] resentment towards my criticisms of the Turkish government, my criticisms of Turkish culture,
[00:44:39] where they think I'm like anti-Turk, like the same forces in America, they say, Hasan
[00:44:45] hates America are identical in the same vein, the same exact attitude persists in Turkey
[00:44:50] as well.
[00:44:54] Do you understand?
[00:44:59] Like, America funded and facilitated a lot of instability in the country during the Cold
[00:45:14] War.
[00:45:15] The ultra-nationalist movement, the Gray Wolves Mehepe, which is a part of the governing
[00:45:20] coalition of AKP, with Rijit Ptaiyip Adon, that was a direct CIA intervention.
[00:45:26] One could even say, AKP is a byproduct of CIA intervention or a continuation, because
[00:45:31] America, given Turkey's status as a NATO nation, given Turkey's status as having the
[00:45:36] second largest standing military in NATO, plays a very important role in American imperialism
[00:45:44] and plays a very important role in the grand design that America has in the Middle East.
[00:45:54] So for that reason, for that reason, there are, of course, Turkish socialists, Turkish leftists
[00:46:01] that are big fans, but our position, this community's position, or even my position about
[00:46:09] about the Turkish government or Turkish history,
[00:46:14] like those critiques are not shared by many Turks.
[00:46:35] Why does the Turkish language sound kind of like Arabic
[00:46:37] Did the Treasury just sanction Turkish banks over Iran ties?
[00:46:41] Yes, Turkey increasingly has become a safe haven for a lot of like Gulf and even Iranian money as well.
[00:46:47] A lot of foreign capital has come into the country.
[00:46:51] A lot of foreign capital has come into the country in recent years, especially in the last decade or so,
[00:46:56] because of the instability taking place, taking shape in the region.
[00:47:01] So it's definitely turning into like new Dubai in some respects.
[00:47:11] But yeah, I, of course, oppose Fethullah Gulen.
[00:47:17] I talk about it all the time.
[00:47:19] He's a fucking psycho.
[00:47:21] His movement is something that I obviously oppose.
[00:47:25] I'm not an Islamist at all.
[00:47:31] But those positions, like my consistent anti-imperialist slant and my criticisms of Turkish history
[00:47:45] and Turkish, the Turkish government has absolutely played a role in Turks on the internet, even
[00:47:54] those who speak English and are interested in American politics developing a negative
[00:47:58] opinion of me, and that is reflected in the comments all the time.
[00:48:28] are also far more nationalists than Turks in Turkey. So, no, no, no, that's not true.
[00:48:41] Turks outside of Turkey are far more pro-aqepe, but Turks inside of Turkey, even the most
[00:48:46] liberal Turk, from a Western standard, from a Western perspective, you guys will never
[00:48:51] understand this.
[00:48:52] that have mandatory conscription will always be infinitely more nationalistic than countries
[00:48:59] that don't have it. You will never be able to understand it unless you live in it, okay?
[00:49:08] Turks outside of Turkey are far more pro-akepe than Turks inside of Turkey, right? The governing
[00:49:15] coalition, the governing party has obviously fallen out of favor. They've been in charge
[00:49:20] for like almost three decades now.
[00:49:28] Abi, as in the show, our place, she had a deprem zamanla topladın yardımlarda
[00:49:32] balansen italyanlar pozitifti bence ama oktober 7 sonrası belli bir yengeyle olan
[00:49:36] şeyden itibariyle yokuş aşağı gitme. Yeah, I know there's one Turkish content creator
[00:49:41] on this platform that I used to be friends with who became like a weird
[00:49:46] nationalist out of nowhere and it's complex, it's complicated to explain but
[00:49:53] there was one there was one Turkish content creator on this platform back
[00:49:57] in the day who became like weirdly nationalist and and he just started
[00:50:04] fucking farming my ass non-stop and hasn't stopped and post October 7 I
[00:50:10] very famously said to the Turks no not Todik guys what the fuck you talking
[00:50:15] My talk is my boy. No, this is a Turkish speaking Turkish content creator
[00:50:19] Anyway, and lives in Turkey. So and he even got I didn't get fucking
[00:50:25] Didn't he get like arrested or something? I
[00:50:28] Think he got in trouble with the government too, but he's he's a nationalist as well
[00:50:33] But he's like a more liberal nationalist if that makes sense
[00:50:37] It probably doesn't make sense for you guys, but he is a
[00:50:40] he is a
[00:50:42] On the opposition but on the nationals front in opposition and he is now fucking hated by Turks as well
[00:50:50] but he
[00:50:53] Used that clip where I called Turks dogs of America
[00:51:00] Because they because there's a there's a lot of anti-Arab sentiment in the country
[00:51:05] So right after October 7th, there were a lot of Turks who initially were like, oh, we're with Israel. We stand with Israel because Israel is, you know, fighting against Arabs and we don't like Arabs.
[00:51:19] Right? Yeah, this is the clip.
[00:51:35] I went really I went beast mode and I was right by the way I ate no crumbs
[00:51:51] this was right after October 7 and Turks were coming into my chat and being
[00:51:55] like why the fuck would you defend the Palestinians right why the fuck would
[00:52:00] defend the Palestinians. And here's what's so interesting about it. Every single one,
[00:52:09] every single one of those Turks that came after me had to hide their head in shame,
[00:52:16] because immediately after October 7, immediately after October 7, they thought that they could
[00:52:24] run around and be fucking pro-israel the the
[00:52:27] liberal nationalists
[00:52:29] were like all only the islamist that are the governing coalition only the
[00:52:32] ultra-nationalists in the islamist the right wing of the country
[00:52:35] only they are uh... you know pro-arab and that's why they're pro-palestine
[00:52:40] they didn't realize that the entire country was pro-palestine
[00:52:44] so all of those motherfuckers that yelled at me
[00:52:49] all of those motherfuckers they yelled at me
[00:52:51] They had to very quickly turn around and be like, oh, actually, we were always pro-Palestine from the start.
[00:52:58] But, in that process, in that process, this is right after October 7th.
[00:53:06] Wait, but why would Turkey pro-Israel and anti-Palestinians who are Muslim, what do you mean, dude?
[00:53:11] It's, first of all, no one is monolithic.
[00:53:14] And secondly, I already explained it to you, due to the Syrian refugee crisis that took place in Turkey with millions of Syrians coming
[00:53:21] into Turkey, a lot of the opposition, the liberals in Turkey, actually have a lot of resentment
[00:53:29] towards Arabs in general.
[00:53:30] They see, first of all, there's a different dynamic at play here.
[00:53:35] Turks, there is definitely a lot of anti-Arab sentiment in the country.
[00:53:41] Part of it accelerated due to the Syrian refugees coming in.
[00:53:48] part of it is because, like, Turks are, you know, there's the secular Turks that are very
[00:53:55] anti-Islam, and then there's the Muslim Turks that are not a secular and they're, you know,
[00:54:01] pro-Islam, pro-the Muslim world, right?
[00:54:04] And it's seen as this, like, it's seen as the, it is a very unique dynamic.
[00:54:09] Because remember, this is a Muslim country, there's an Ottoman history.
[00:54:13] Erdogan actually took advantage of the anti-elitism, anti-liberal sentiment in the country when
[00:54:25] he first ran in one power.
[00:54:30] So basically, it's not dissimilar to how some people say, oh, we're Persian, we're not
[00:54:34] Muslim, that kind of thing, right?
[00:54:35] Arabs and Turks are different, but some Turks take it a step further than what is necessary.
[00:54:52] Let's just say I'm trying to be as nice as possible.
[00:54:54] This is very generalizing, but also liberal nationalism in Turkey is partially based in
[00:55:00] distinguishing themselves from Arabs and other Middle Eastern populations.
[00:55:02] Can many see themselves as more European than Middle Eastern?
[00:55:04] And yes, there is truth to this, yes.
[00:55:07] Associating strongly with other Muslim populations
[00:55:09] is more associated with the Islamist right, yes.
[00:55:12] Exactly.
[00:55:16] I've got up there in Dina Badashhtri,
[00:55:17] a lot of it, Dina Erdogan,
[00:55:18] the Badashhtri, a lot of it, yes.
[00:55:20] Erdogan is also obviously leaned into this,
[00:55:24] presenting himself as like the savior of the Oma,
[00:55:27] savior of the Muslim world and stuff like that.
[00:55:29] So a lot of the opposition from hyper-liberals
[00:55:33] to the left to
[00:55:37] maybe not the socialist necessarily but like liberals and nationalists the
[00:55:41] like and all liberals still have a sense of nationalist
[00:55:44] uh... pride
[00:55:45] in turkey regardless
[00:55:47] anyway they they all thought
[00:55:50] that the uh... the the conversation would take shape in a very different
[00:55:54] manner after october seven they all learned the lesson
[00:55:57] some of them the hard way
[00:55:59] is now turks are obviously completely united
[00:56:02] uh... in the palestinian emancipatory cause behind the palestinian emancipatory
[00:56:06] cause but
[00:56:07] right after october seven there were some
[00:56:10] who came after me and said i was racist for saying
[00:56:13] uh... turks that uh... defend israel in america our dogs to western imperialism
[00:56:18] and they tried to say it was racist
[00:56:20] happiness
[00:56:21] hayvanova hayvansınız
[00:56:23] okadar fazla azmısınız ki araplara sevmiyoruz araplara sevmiyoruz
[00:56:26] You think of yourself as something else.
[00:56:28] The reverse intelligence.
[00:56:29] You know that there is no difference between the Americans and the Europeans?
[00:56:34] At the end of the day, people have to live in freedom.
[00:56:40] You come here and defend Israel.
[00:56:43] May God give you trouble.
[00:56:45] Dog, son, dog.
[00:56:46] That's the boy.
[00:56:48] There is.
[00:56:49] At the end of the day, if they want,
[00:56:51] they all make the Islamists to their own mother.
[00:56:54] But no.
[00:56:56] Oh my God, we will defend ourselves. Why? Because we are exploiting Kurds in the same way.
[00:57:00] That's why we have to sit there and defend ourselves in Israel.
[00:57:06] We are this child. May God give you trouble.
[00:57:26] population got hit with this commentary
[00:57:31] Including those who would normally be on my side here
[00:57:34] and
[00:57:35] I was fucking right
[00:57:37] Another another classic rant right, but too early. Okay
[00:57:43] But since then since then even those even those Turks who you know now
[00:57:50] identify with my position
[00:57:52] even Turks who are now ashamed of their previous stance on the Palestinian cause.
[00:58:01] Okay, even them still carry over that resentment from what they remember.
[00:58:08] As I often repeat, people only remember how you made them feel, so if you made them feel small in that moment,
[00:58:18] If you made them angry, they only remember how they felt.
[00:58:23] They don't remember that they were in opposition to you
[00:58:25] and that now they're on your side.
[00:58:27] They just remember that they fucking hate you.
[00:58:30] So then they look for things to hold onto,
[00:58:32] things to lean into, things that justify
[00:58:36] their initial resentment.
[00:58:38] We don't like to have a direct conversation because our community is very sensitive to such things.
[00:59:08] Turks they're like what the fuck this went supernova in Turkish circles it's
[00:59:15] kind of funny though because two years ago thank you for the subtitles
[00:59:18] oh page me all at it and now two weeks ago someone says oh my god thank
[00:59:23] god someone is saying exactly how I felt
[00:59:28] hello is it to call her hot dinner dish
[00:59:32] Huckl. It's all but there's still a Hama Sabi take.
[00:59:37] I don't even know what to say.
[00:59:42] Hashtag Jahri, hashtag I'm going to explode.
[00:59:46] Hello Hasan Free Palestine. See?
[00:59:53] And then you got Turkish liberals saying it's better to not take sides.
[00:59:57] Both sides have hurt the Turks.
[01:00:02] These Adam dedik, gelecek nesiller, Atam diyecek, oh my God, that's crazy.
[01:00:15] He said, we called him a man, as in like, we called him our guy, but upcoming generations
[01:00:21] will call him Atam, which is like the founding father, like Atah, like a founding father.
[01:01:00] because they were like associating, they were associating the Palestinian cause
[01:01:06] with like Arabism, Pan-Arabism, and they have a lot of resentment towards Arabs
[01:01:15] in general. So the people that had a lot of resentment towards Arabs in
[01:01:18] general due to Addoan's pro-Arab position, a lot of Turks, a lot of Turks
[01:01:28] thought that they could get away with being pro-Israel. They learned quickly that they
[01:01:32] cannot. In recent years, Turkish policies on both the right and the left adopted an anti-refugee
[01:01:37] stance amid an economic crisis characterized by the rapid depreciation of the Turkish
[01:01:40] lira and negative interest rates leading to an inflationary spiral.
[01:01:50] What is this? Tel Aviv Post coming for you, the mystery behind an audio clip that helped
[01:01:54] the Penda Senate race.
[01:02:07] But even now, weeks later, it's still not publicly known where the audio recording in the question
[01:02:10] is even real.
[01:02:11] Merky Origins.
[01:02:14] Common service last month when a user on Reddit called TrackAPAC posted a 25 second audio
[01:02:18] clip of a person identified as Moss saying the entire purpose of his campaign was to
[01:02:21] ensure continued U.S. support for Israel.
[01:02:23] The speaker also says it's not wrong for American Jews to want to put Israel first because
[01:02:26] American Jews have been victims of anti-Semitism, and the United States is not our homeland.
[01:02:31] The recording wasn't widely spread, however, until July when Moss's then Democratic primary
[01:02:35] opponent in the race for Michigan's 11th congressional district posted it to her ex-account.
[01:02:39] Weeks later, Moss addressed the recording publicly, calling it, Manipulated and Un-sourced.
[01:02:43] Yeah, he didn't say it was fucking bullshit.
[01:02:45] He didn't say it was AI.
[01:02:48] He just said it was Un-sourced and Manipulated.
[01:02:51] And it was Manipulated.
[01:02:53] It's true. The one element that is mumbled, like one of the statements that he made, which
[01:03:01] the Washington Post does not mention here, as a matter of fact, was actually hard to understand,
[01:03:09] and the subtitles made it seem like he was saying, America is a pawn of Israel. I don't
[01:03:14] think he said that. The other stuff that the Washington Post actually posts here,
[01:03:18] did actually say if the audio recording is real. Okay? That stuff was clear.
[01:03:33] The recording wasn't widely spread. The origin of the recording are murky. The
[01:03:38] group whose name matches the subreddit where they initially posted track
[01:03:40] Ape said the subreddit where the comments were posted is an imposter and
[01:03:43] not affiliated with this group which tracks and opposed to the pro-israel
[01:03:46] lobby. Yeah, his statement was also strange because it did not address whether he believed
[01:03:51] the entire recording to be false or just parts of it. So like, even Washington Post is also
[01:03:56] openly saying like, look, you know, there's reasonable scrutiny.
[01:04:04] Moss's Democratic opponent, Aisha Faroukhi, who posted the recording months later, said
[01:04:07] she could not share anything about the audio's origins or who recorded it. Another political
[01:04:11] group opposed to the American is Republican Affairs Committee. The American Independence
[01:04:14] project made its own post about the clip, appending misleading captions to the video.
[01:04:18] Yes. So this part is correct. This assessment is correct. Here's the original recording,
[01:04:24] by the way.
[01:04:25] I would say that the entire purpose of my campaign needs is to make sure America continues to support Israel, and I don't think it's wrong to use the Americans' point of view.
[01:04:47] America is not a woman.
[01:04:49] We have been victims of anti-semitism here.
[01:04:55] So it seems like it seems like a devastating hot mic, right?
[01:05:10] Related to something you covered yesterday.
[01:05:12] What is this?
[01:05:13] Stop.
[01:05:14] Please.
[01:05:15] Why do you guys keep posting Benjamin Ninjahu singing?
[01:05:18] Why do you do this?
[01:05:19] Why do you do this to me?
[01:05:22] Why do you do this to me individually?
[01:05:24] You want to give me a spiritual shock every single time I see that on the timeline.
[01:05:29] It breaks my brain.
[01:05:31] Anyway, so what cannot be heard and Washington Post is correct is whether or not he says,
[01:05:39] US, Israel uses the US as a pawn, right?
[01:05:43] That part of the clip is actually mumbled.
[01:05:48] And that is an assertion, I would say is a false assertion that was added on.
[01:05:53] And I think that's what he's using as a way to say, oh, the entire thing is like manipulated.
[01:06:00] The post racked up at least 1.5 million views on extract Apex official X account amplified
[01:06:05] the clip as well in July, Piker show.
[01:06:06] When the comments reached Piker show, he was being asked by viewers how to best persuade
[01:06:10] fellow Jewish people at synagogue to oppose Zionism.
[01:06:12] Piker displayed a social media post containing Muslim alleged comments and started talking
[01:06:15] about the dangers Americans use face.
[01:06:17] If the public believe Judaism is synonymous with support for Israel and its government's
[01:06:21] actions.
[01:06:22] keep putting this idea out there, you know the quote. Those comments drew rebukes from top
[01:06:25] democrats as well as republicans and sparked off the lcya, the democratic senate nominee
[01:06:28] in michigan who campaigned with biker to distance himself from the streamer. I like that they
[01:06:32] also add the additional context here. biker stream also drew another denial from mosa told the
[01:06:38] detroit news that the clip is manipulated either stitched and edited together or just a
[01:06:41] complete fabrication. He linked the clip to a toxic political culture in which he had
[01:06:45] been personally targeted, including by a bomb threat in his home last year, which by the way
[01:06:49] Again, I disavow. I don't think anybody like I think political violence is unacceptable and that is
[01:06:56] certainly unacceptable
[01:06:57] That the Jeremy Moss faced that
[01:07:01] No evidence of AI altercation however experts in detecting digital fakes who reviewed the audio clip told the post
[01:07:06] They were not able to find evidence that the clip was altered by AI
[01:07:10] Haney Farad a leading expert in digital forensics and chief science officer get real security
[01:07:14] which detects deep fakes, analyze the clip using the company's model that is trained to distinguish real from AI generated voices and found no evidence of AI generation.
[01:07:23] The audio does not sound as if it were spliced together either for Farid added and the clips metadata suggests it was an iPhone recording.
[01:07:31] Hank Von S, an investigator whose expertise in detecting AI generated contents at commercial audio detection tool, Hive did not flag that the clip is AI generated.
[01:07:39] So, yeah, the article itself openly shows that the likelihood is that this is a real clip.
[01:07:50] One element of the clip is mumbled and you can't really hear what he's saying there.
[01:07:55] And because one of the accounts that posted that added this additional subtitle, making
[01:08:02] it seem like Ma said something he hadn't said, he's just using that as an opportunity
[01:08:07] to say, oh, this is all fake bullshit. He's not saying the clip is AI necessarily. He's
[01:08:14] not saying it's like completely fake. He's just saying it's out of context and manipulated,
[01:08:18] right? The origins of the clip are unknown, however, and neither expert could authenticate
[01:08:28] the recording ad detection tools are not 100% foolproof and neither analysts performed
[01:08:31] biometric master confirm Moss's voice. A spokesperson for Moss declined an interview
[01:08:36] request she did not answer whether month denies making the specific statements
[01:08:39] in the clip
[01:08:40] including that the entire purpose of this campaign was to ensure support
[01:08:43] u.s. support for israel
[01:08:45] this episode illustrates out a i generated videos and other content
[01:08:48] politics of made it harder for voters to know what to believe at this trust of
[01:08:51] political actors could take advantage of multiple ways
[01:08:54] at least one candidate
[01:08:55] congress uh... for congress representative derrick van orden
[01:08:58] as prompted an a i generated video of his democratic opponent calling voters
[01:09:01] peasants
[01:09:02] in herself the anointed one which democrats lamb doesn't attempt to
[01:09:05] trick voters.
[01:09:06] The existence of AI can also benefit candidates who want to cast out on the authenticity of
[01:09:11] a damaging story," said Greg Bowen, a Democratic political consultant in Michigan, is now getting
[01:09:16] to the point where there's controversy that pop up and is easy for people to dismiss
[01:09:19] them as fake.
[01:09:22] Politicians are increasingly doing so.
[01:09:24] Last month, Representative Randy Fein was captured on surveillance video rifling through
[01:09:27] a voter's mailbox while doorknocking in his district.
[01:09:30] His office confirmed to TMZ the video showed Fein, but later, when asked by a
[01:09:33] reporter Fine said he thought the video could be fake. It might have been an AI
[01:09:38] video he said. This is the other side of AI that they can just do real shit.
[01:09:45] Politicians be caught doing something heinous and given the reaction from the
[01:09:49] crowd they could turn around and go oh that was AI that's fake. When it's not
[01:09:53] AI. This is the other side of the AI equation. President Donald Trump has
[01:10:02] It's also invoked they had to cast out on events, including when he told Fox News the
[01:10:07] images showing evidence of a US strike on an Iranian school could have been faked.
[01:10:11] Researchers have called this phenomenon a liar's dividend, where politicians can distance
[01:10:15] themselves from a negative story with little downside.
[01:10:18] Claire Ward, and that's what Jeremy Moss is doing seemingly, right?
[01:10:22] And because we don't have the sourcing, because no one came out and said, I recorded
[01:10:26] this, right?
[01:10:28] And no one has been able to track who actually recorded the clip and what they're
[01:10:32] intentions were. There's no way to verify its authenticity completely. So in this
[01:10:37] medius ecosystem or rather in this information landscape, a candidate can
[01:10:43] easily say oh that's fucking AI that's bullshit. Or even infer that it's AI
[01:10:48] without saying it's AI because Jeremy Moss hasn't said it's AI. Now of course
[01:10:56] no one seems to care about that part of the equation. Someone who is now
[01:11:01] going to win their congressional race saying like oh yeah of course I'm gonna
[01:11:05] you know put Israel first like what are you fucking talking about like or even
[01:11:10] someone who is an American Jewish congressperson saying like he does not
[01:11:15] like he feels that America is not sufficiently protecting Jews and
[01:11:19] therefore he has to you know make sure that Israel is is amply protected with
[01:11:26] his legislative track record like that that calls into question many things and
[01:11:29] And he even said that's a trope and it's like, I agree, it's the dangerous trope of dual
[01:11:34] loyalty.
[01:11:37] It's a dangerous trope of dual loyalty.
[01:11:40] The problem, however, is that if you are actually saying things like that, then it
[01:11:44] must be addressed regardless of whether or not this is a dangerous trope of dual loyalty.
[01:11:51] Why didn't I get any Twitch live alerts?
[01:12:01] I don't know.
[01:12:02] Moss's opponent in the congressional race, Troy Mayer, Ethan Baker, said in a statement
[01:12:07] that the level of hatred directed at Moss about the recording is unhealthy and damaging
[01:12:10] and urged people to deescalate their rhetoric.
[01:12:12] He also said Moss should explain the comments that have concerned many people of the 11th
[01:12:15] congressional district, saying his denials may have been referring to the accurate
[01:12:18] captions appended by one group to the recording online the recordings other
[01:12:23] comments have yet to be clearly refuted or explained he's right that's
[01:12:28] precisely at the heart of this issue now of course I think Jeremy Moss wants to
[01:12:33] get away from this story to the best of his ability he doesn't want to address
[01:12:36] it and it's understandable that he wouldn't want to address it he already
[01:12:39] won his primary right and he's gonna skirt on by to an easy victory in the
[01:12:45] midterms coming up. But having said that, it also shows this incredible double
[01:12:56] standard in the media. Having a congressional representative get hot
[01:13:00] mic'd on such a contentious issue is seen as secondary to the story about a
[01:13:08] purposely manipulated and clipped out of context sentiment from a political
[01:13:13] commentator on Twitch. I became the story that incident did not. It goes to show that
[01:13:22] there is absolutely a lack of interest in things that I think are important for the public
[01:13:27] to know about. I think it's important for the public to get a better understanding
[01:13:32] of where Jeremy Moss lands on these issues. Did he misspeak? I'm willing to entertain
[01:13:36] the notion that he misspoke, right, that he actually meant that anti-Semitism is rising
[01:13:43] and maybe he personally believes that Israel's defense is tied intimately to, you know,
[01:13:50] Jews' safety all around the world or something like that.
[01:13:53] I've heard that so many times from many people, right?
[01:14:01] I just don't think that with the exception of this new article that came from Washington
[01:14:05] In post, there's a lot of investment or interest in identifying whether or not Jeremy Moss actually
[01:14:11] said these things, where did this clip come from?
[01:14:19] But instead, they're too busy talking about me.
[01:14:24] And not even about me, not even about my actual position necessarily, but instead,
[01:14:34] about what they have been able to weaponize as a position that I actually do not hold and and oppose
[01:14:45] You know
[01:14:48] What was the angle the WAPO article it was pretty good the WAPO article is actually very good it just covered how
[01:14:54] politicians can utilize the
[01:14:56] It called in the question whether or not the audio was real or not, and said that Jeremy
[01:15:04] Moss's response has been – implied that Jeremy Moss's response has been insufficient.
[01:15:10] And then even went to AI examiners to find out whether or not the clip was AI.
[01:15:18] AI examiners and AI analysts said that it wasn't AI, and also on top of that, they went to
[01:15:35] his opposition who was also calling in the question whether it was real or not.
[01:15:39] Still, we heard the article started with you.
[01:15:41] The article started with me because I am a way to draw in viewership.
[01:15:46] It's an algorithmic boost.
[01:15:48] name brings in clicks. You understand? Anyway, here's the Socialism Conference being covered
[01:15:59] by local news. Let's start with it.
[01:16:00] Darin Bailey is in an uphill battle. As the Socialism Conference gets underway here at
[01:16:05] the Hyatt Regency, Bailey is hoping a leftward swing in the Democratic Party could be the
[01:16:09] right campaign issue for him to try to capitalize on.
[01:16:13] Darren Bailey and his campaign team gathering outside the Hyatt Regency Hotel while an anti-Pritzker
[01:16:19] video billboard truck that Bailey paid for circled around McCormick Place where the
[01:16:23] Socialism Conference was also taking place.
[01:16:26] It's no surprise that socialists feel at home here in Illinois.
[01:16:31] J.B.
[01:16:32] Pritzker has spent nearly eight years rolling out the red carpet for their policies.
[01:16:37] The Pritzker campaign suggesting Bailey is getting desperate, his press secretary
[01:16:41] issuing a statement saying, Darren Bailey wants to talk about anything but his extreme
[01:16:45] record, Governor Pritzker is going to continue delivering for all Illinoisans. Pritzker has
[01:16:51] not embraced the socialist agenda that is being promoted at the conference and that
[01:16:55] has helped some Democrats win primaries across the country, but he has previously said
[01:16:59] Democrats are a big tent party, Bailey looking to attract more people into the
[01:17:04] Republican tent.
[01:17:05] It's a choice between an out of touch billionaire who believes that government always needs
[01:17:10] more of your money. And working Illinoisans who understand what it means to earn a living,
[01:17:17] balance a budget and make difficult decisions.
[01:17:20] The Socialism Conference, which has more than 2,600 registered guests, also joined the
[01:17:25] concern of the conservative small government advocacy group Americans for Prosperity.
[01:17:30] They paid for their own billboard truck that made regular rounds past the hotel.
[01:17:34] son piker is going to be presenting a program that talks about abolishing the senate abolishing
[01:17:41] prisons abolishing police abolishing the borders uh... in radically transforming life in america
[01:17:51] yeah in a positive direction he didn't say it was positive or negative or not so
[01:17:56] we don't know we don't know what his feelings on this issue are okay
[01:18:01] Okay. It is kind of funny. The Senate abolition part is so funny because to me, I've yet to
[01:18:08] hear anyone make an argument as to why it's good, like why the Senate must remain. I'm
[01:18:14] not even super invested in the Senate abolition perspective. Right? I can go in either direction.
[01:18:27] i totally understand why
[01:18:30] uh... the the structure of the senate is is undemocratic
[01:18:34] but it is really interesting that not a single person has been like here's why
[01:18:38] it's good
[01:18:42] no it's not satire
[01:18:44] it's the socialist conference getting out of a chicago
[01:18:48] and their headliner and other than far-left anti-israel streamer
[01:18:52] son piker
[01:18:55] We have to stop shying away from our ideas, okay?
[01:18:58] We have to stop shying away and running away from our beliefs.
[01:19:03] It's pertinent and important for all of you to identify
[01:19:06] within your neighborhoods, within your communities,
[01:19:08] within your workplace to figure out
[01:19:10] exactly what those problems are
[01:19:13] and talk about how DSA will address them.
[01:19:16] We have to be bold, we have to be brave,
[01:19:19] and we have to seize on the opportunity
[01:19:21] because there's far too much discontent out there.
[01:19:25] All right, let's bring in my view host Laura Trump.
[01:19:28] Laura, okay, so we talked about the health fascism, but I wanna give you the full title
[01:19:31] of that session at the conference, cuz it's called Resisting Maha and Building Environmental
[01:19:39] and Reproductive Justice.
[01:19:41] Like let's just, I have to ask you, why would you want to resist getting healthy
[01:19:46] again?
[01:19:47] Well, the whole thing is crazy.
[01:19:51] What are they talking about?
[01:19:52] Maha
[01:19:54] Bro, I was the moderate of the panel and I have no idea what the fuck they're talking about
[01:20:00] Are they just like lying about it, what's what do you mean?
[01:20:04] It's just the opposite of anything we want to do the hashtag try socialism on the banner behind them also
[01:20:11] Really something I never in my lifetime thought we would see something like this
[01:20:14] But I'll tell you what nothing says power to the people more than a millionaire twitch streamer
[01:20:20] like Hassan Piker, a guy who, by the way, made his fortune off of America, an American
[01:20:27] audience.
[01:20:28] Hey, at least they recognize that this is one of the most American audiences out there
[01:20:34] in American political commentary, which is not something you can say about Asmongold,
[01:20:40] for example.
[01:20:41] It's not something you can even say about Tiger Carlson, for example.
[01:20:44] platforms, American advertisers flying into Chicago to teach other people's kids and our
[01:20:50] future generations how they can prevent themselves from seeing that kind of success.
[01:20:55] I think it is pretty funny that they think it's other people's kids.
[01:20:58] It was mostly all people, by the way.
[01:21:01] It's Haymarket Books.
[01:21:02] It's a very different audience than the one I normally court.
[01:21:09] And simultaneously destroying America.
[01:21:13] what they're going to conveniently leave off of their, I'm sure, eco-friendly all-natural
[01:21:17] tote bags that they're given out at this conference. They will leave out socialism's greatest
[01:21:22] hits because those include things like famine, secret police, and a body count of around
[01:21:28] 200 million people worldwide.
[01:21:31] I think there's something very funny about being a person whose last name is Trump
[01:21:36] and saying this about socialism, because US aid cuts have literally led to death and destruction
[01:21:43] in the hundreds of thousands all around the world. That's number one. Number two, we have
[01:21:48] a secret police that's currently running amok on US soil, ICE, okay? And Trump is directing
[01:21:55] them in the exact same way, okay? And what was the other thing famine? Food is poison.
[01:22:04] food is poison. In the big 226, we are now living in a universe where the wealthiest
[01:22:12] nation on the planet cannot rein in their food producers and we are just serving straight
[01:22:23] up fucking plexiglass in our trail mix. Food is poison. So what are we talking about?
[01:22:33] The fear of a socialist future is here right now.
[01:22:38] It's the fear of a capitalist today.
[01:22:40] That's the problem.
[01:22:41] We know socialism does not work.
[01:22:43] We know it destroys countries.
[01:22:45] And what's so interesting I think in particular about this conference is that-
[01:22:50] Like the idea that socialism has never worked, socialism simply doesn't work, this criticism
[01:22:57] probably was maybe a little bit more effective,
[01:23:02] a little bit more salient back in the day,
[01:23:05] probably had a lot more persuasive power.
[01:23:10] Right now, there is no socialism.
[01:23:13] Right now, in the United States of America, there's only capitalism.
[01:23:18] And capitalism is doing those things that you're attributing to socialism right now.
[01:23:22] One of my favorite things that reactionaries complain about,
[01:23:27] all the time is this idea that socialism doesn't work and that socialism creates an environment
[01:23:37] where there is a group of super wealthy powerful elite that dominate the rest of the rest of
[01:23:44] the society that's living in abject poverty. To those people I say, look around. That's
[01:23:51] That's what's happening right now.
[01:23:53] We are not living under a socialist dictatorship, a dictatorship of the proletariat.
[01:23:58] We're not living under that system currently.
[01:24:01] And what you're describing is no longer just a scary future to avoid.
[01:24:07] It's the current reality that we existed.
[01:24:13] And perhaps worse for your perspective, Laura Trump, post of my view, is that more
[01:24:20] and more Americans are coming to that recognition. They are realizing that this is their reality
[01:24:27] and they're seeking alternatives, many of which see socialism as that alternative.
[01:24:32] They aren't even trying to sugarcoat or hide anything anymore, Rachel, right?
[01:24:36] I know.
[01:24:36] They are putting it out front. They are proud of their product. This is the future of the
[01:24:41] American Left. They're telling you and they're so proud of the product, they're
[01:24:45] putting it on a stage and they're selling tickets to this show. We need to take
[01:24:50] Also, when did the already ridiculous 100 million from the black book become 200 million um, no one does propaganda the old-fashioned way anymore
[01:24:58] Back in the day at least they would like greatly increase the number of death totals a number of counts
[01:25:06] They'd play fast and loose with the truth, but at least there was like some kind of
[01:25:12] Like some kind of assessment some kind of faulty analysis, but an analysis nonetheless at the heart
[01:25:20] like anchoring the commentary.
[01:25:22] Nowadays they just lie outright like they they don't even lie with numbers. They don't lie through omission.
[01:25:29] They just straight up go socialism has killed 10 guerrillian people. Oh, that's not a real number. You think I made that up?
[01:25:35] Well, I guess you want 20 guerrillian people to die.
[01:25:39] I rest my case and then
[01:25:42] the audience on their side is receptive to it.
[01:25:44] The audience on their side goes, you know what that's real. That's actually fucking correct
[01:25:53] The lying by omission and the lying by by disingenuous framing the lying by
[01:26:01] Using numbers is no longer being deployed by the far right or the right wing forces
[01:26:06] It's being deployed by liberals against their left flank one thing. I saw was
[01:26:10] uh was this clip hold on I wonder if I can find it again it's like one of these sex
[01:26:15] pastiny orbiters uh that that posted a clip of fd signifier talking about how
[01:26:21] leftist shouldn't use griper language okay
[01:26:31] I wonder if I can find it again and then they clipped me
[01:26:34] saying that people like Ben Shapiro claim that non-Jewish folks that are pro-Israel are more
[01:26:43] Jewish than Jewish folks that are anti-Israel. And he first clips FD Signifier and me agreeing
[01:26:50] with FD Signifier, then he clips me talking about it and I guess in his mind my utilization
[01:26:56] of the term Goyim is the reason why he was like oh this is Nazi sentiment, not realizing
[01:27:01] that goyim is a proper way to still talk about non-Jewish people.
[01:27:10] It's like when dumbasses think when someone says shekels they're being anti-Semitic.
[01:27:14] It's like, no, that's just the currency, you fucking idiot.
[01:27:19] But you can use it contextually in an appropriate manner, or you can use it like a fucking
[01:27:25] neo-Nazi does.
[01:27:26] I wasn't using it in a contextually inappropriate manner.
[01:27:31] It can be a neutral term that is contextually appropriate and it can be contextually inappropriate.
[01:27:55] It's kind of funny though, because Gentile is the most appropriate way to phrase it.
[01:28:05] But again, it's literally, it's silliness.
[01:28:13] I saw you need to watch this MAGA debate hot take.
[01:28:26] Can we watch Insula Lubeere get live?
[01:28:30] What the fuck are you guys talking about?
[01:28:40] That's what I call my brother who is uncircued, a Gentile, LeMau.
[01:28:45] Buddy, that's a nice guy.
[01:28:49] Thank you.
[01:28:50] My name's Eric Hovegan.
[01:28:51] We're out here in Guizhou.
[01:28:53] What is this?
[01:28:54] How China's poorest province passed West Virginia in just 20 years?
[01:28:58] Goddamn.
[01:29:00] Anyway.
[01:29:03] Anyway, but yeah, it is kind of funny how Fox News is covering this, this, this, uh, Socialism.
[01:29:13] People seriously, when they tell us what they want to do, we can't laugh it off.
[01:29:17] We can't say, oh, it'll never happen here in America.
[01:29:20] Yeah.
[01:29:21] This is why these midterms are so important coming up in November.
[01:29:23] Yeah.
[01:29:24] No, you're absolutely right, Laura.
[01:29:25] And I'm glad that you brought up the, you know, the famine and the, and the
[01:29:29] death and the destruction, because part of the way that they get away with being out and
[01:29:35] proud and putting on a conference like this is because in our school systems, we never
[01:29:40] talk about the victims of communism.
[01:29:42] We never talk about the victims of socialism and the millions of people who have starved
[01:29:47] because of these policies.
[01:29:49] There is a museum, by the way, in Washington, D.C., dedicated to the victims of communism.
[01:29:55] That should be a must-see.
[01:29:56] Yeah, and some of those victims are straight-up neo-nazis, or not neo-nazis, sorry, Nazis, the old-fashioned way.
[01:30:04] Like, it's not even a joke, look it up.
[01:30:06] Museum for anybody going...
[01:30:08] Literally, Nazi collaborators and Nazis, like actual prominent Nazis and Nazi collaborators are featured in the victims of communism.
[01:30:15] To Washington, but we need to get the truth about the Bolsheviks all the way down in our school system.
[01:30:21] What?!
[01:30:22] What?!
[01:30:24] Okay, I love that she straight up said victims of communism and then said we need the truth about the Bolsheviks I
[01:30:33] Wonder I
[01:30:35] Wonder what people normally historically and during the time of the Nazi rise to power
[01:30:42] What people were substituting the term Bolshevik for?
[01:30:48] What was oftentimes
[01:30:50] the the sentence the the word modifier in front of Bolshevism hmm hmm that's right
[01:31:01] it was Jewish Bolshevism you know how people say islamo communism nowadays back
[01:31:11] in the day last time liberalism was failing on the the global stage yes
[01:31:16] the prefix was Judeo Bolshevism.
[01:31:20] Islam and communism has become the new Judeo Bolshevism.
[01:31:25] Hint, it wasn't Gentile. Yeah.
[01:31:28] That is a wild thing for a Fox News host to say.
[01:31:33] We have to identify the truth of the Bolsheviks.
[01:31:36] The truth behind the Bolsheviks.
[01:31:37] The, what's next?
[01:31:39] You're going to say that they killed, they slaughtered Christians?
[01:31:44] In Zara's Russia, is that what we're doing?
[01:31:46] This Fox News anchor is doing anti-Semitism the old-fashioned way, but of course many of these institutions, many of these supposedly Jewish institutions, Jewish advocacy organizations that simply only care about defending Israel will not make a big fuss about this because they have to align with these folks.
[01:32:06] They have to align with these folks who happen to be pro-Israel.
[01:32:12] Sami Hamdi mentions you in shaky before in his eight minutes.
[01:32:27] Before I get to your guests on your show, I just want to give you one last word on this
[01:32:31] conference because I think you're right about that this conference has never been more popular
[01:32:37] than it is this year.
[01:32:38] It's been going on every year.
[01:32:39] Yeah, in Canada they had to stop their victims of communism memorial because over half were
[01:32:43] Nazis. Yeah, victims of communism memorial faces called to remove over 330 names linked
[01:32:48] to Nazis and fascists. The memorial was supposed to be unveiled in November 2023, but that
[01:32:53] was put on hold after questions surfaced about many of the names listed.
[01:33:01] This is the secret truth about anti-communism, who were the most vicious anti-communist fighting
[01:33:10] force?
[01:33:11] It was the Nazis, it was the Fascists.
[01:33:16] And that is precisely the reason why anti-communist sentiment oftentimes devolves into, if not
[01:33:23] always, is fascist.
[01:33:28] like to present themselves as being at the center of this conversation where they're like we oppose communism, we oppose fascism.
[01:33:35] Right? They love saying that.
[01:33:39] Except many of these liberal forces, these institutions, these organizations have aligned with fascists in their battle against communism during the Cold War.
[01:33:50] I have, obviously, I have often talked about, and even including in the beginning of this
[01:33:57] broadcast, talked about how America created ultra-nationalist fascist forces in Turkey
[01:34:05] and propped them up, the CIA did, as a bulwark against growing communist sympathy, growing
[01:34:14] Socialist sympathy, trade unionist sympathies in Turkey, okay?
[01:34:22] It's usually how it goes, historically.
[01:34:25] dangerous predicament, dangerous mode of propaganda to lean into.
[01:34:48] Socialists defending their agenda.
[01:34:50] We're for Medicare for All.
[01:34:51] for eliminating all of that bureaucracy with the insurance system and free health care,
[01:34:57] free childcare and the way that we're going to pay for that is by taxing rich people like
[01:35:01] Darren Bailey.
[01:35:02] People are worried about housing, healthcare, wages, education and the rising cost of everyday
[01:35:08] life and- And socialists seemingly always notoriously keep talking about those things
[01:35:15] and we do not but I'm going to sit here and tell you socialism is not about that.
[01:35:20] That concern is real.
[01:35:22] But more government, higher taxes, and taking more from one group to give to another does
[01:35:28] not solve it.
[01:35:29] Yeah, oh, thanks man.
[01:35:31] No, no, definitely.
[01:35:34] Definitely.
[01:35:35] Guys, socialism is not the answer.
[01:35:38] Some conference runs through the holiday weekend.
[01:35:40] Bailey is hoping that voters will reconsider their support for a Democratic governor
[01:35:44] whose party seems to be embracing this ideology more and more.
[01:35:49] Trump declaring the conflict with Iran is, quote, small potatoes defending his
[01:35:53] vice president who would not call it a war. Can you explain to the American
[01:35:57] people this is not a war? What exactly is it?
[01:36:19] you
[01:36:50] You were supposedly journals why don't you investigate and figure it out get a job?
[01:36:53] This isn't even anything slow news day. This is painful to watch your paper die in front of your eyes
[01:36:57] Okay, so experts didn't even think it was AI
[01:37:00] Yeah, it's it's kind of a disservice to the Washington Post, but like
[01:37:08] What is the Zachary the Carter whatever you think of pikers work
[01:37:11] He's obviously the target of a smear campaign with a lot of money behind it
[01:37:13] It's disgraceful the nation to be publishing articles like this
[01:37:16] McCarthy is bullshit at face value and nothing McCarthy is about criticizing
[01:37:20] someone for views they actually hold and pointing out that they will hurt
[01:37:23] progressive Democrats who are trying to win. Michael this is Islamophobia and
[01:37:25] frankly you should know better. Where does the writer mention his religion? The
[01:37:30] articles about dirtbag leftists who hurt Dems Chances of winning. They are the
[01:37:33] equivalent of Fuentes and his ilk on the right. Happy to continue this offline.
[01:37:37] Can you explain how piker and Fuentes are alike? Says Noah Colwin and can
[01:37:41] you do it online where your word actually matters?
[01:37:46] He has a framed image of the Twin Towers burning behind him on stream even if it's a joke or ragebait
[01:37:51] How can you not understand some people have good faith concerns is a framed newspaper cover concerning the topic and remarked that literally every
[01:37:56] Journalist is asking about every day of his life in the years since he said it
[01:38:00] I don't care if the concerns are good faith Hitler had good faith by the way, they're entirely misplaced
[01:38:04] Yeah, and also what's crazy is like it's not even fucking ragebait. Everybody always says ragebait. It's like guys
[01:38:10] I don't know if you know this but like
[01:38:12] It's the most consequential news event of our generation, okay?
[01:38:18] It is a tragedy and it happens to be the most consequential event that changed the trajectory of all of our lives.
[01:38:26] Okay?
[01:38:28] So the idea that like, oh, you're rage-baiting or you're being edgier, whatever, is fucking stupid.
[01:38:35] First of all, if I was doing that, I would tell you, you want to know why?
[01:38:39] Why? Because literally everyone under the age of like 55 is, they don't have such a precious
[01:38:47] attitude about 9-11.
[01:38:49] Most people joke about it.
[01:38:51] Most people have no reason to joke about it also.
[01:38:56] No matter how much mainstream press tries to elevate the seriousness of the way people
[01:39:04] should be talking about 9-11, the public attitude on it is not the same.
[01:39:08] So this is another instance where the media is kind of out of touch with the way regular
[01:39:12] folks feel about it.
[01:39:13] Now, of course, there are people who are over the age of 55 that I would say still treat
[01:39:20] the tragedy with the seriousness that it deserves, right?
[01:39:27] But by and large, most people, you know, most people do not.
[01:39:33] Now, having said that, one of the things that is very frustrating about this is the
[01:39:38] element of Islamophobia because my opinion is not only misconstrued with regular frequency
[01:39:45] due to my own way of talking about it. And of course, like I myself at times have correct
[01:39:52] jokes as well, not at the expense of the victims necessarily, but at the expense of
[01:39:57] of people who weaponize this tragedy against Muslims.
[01:40:06] People who have weaponized this tragedy
[01:40:08] to go and wage war around the globe,
[01:40:11] the global war on terror.
[01:40:15] So of course, of course people are going to criticize that,
[01:40:19] talk about it, whatever.
[01:40:23] There's a video of you receiving the gift,
[01:40:24] it's not open for interpretation.
[01:40:26] That is why journalists don't ask you about it.
[01:40:28] Yeah.
[01:40:38] But having said that, having said that, I mean,
[01:40:41] this position, anyway, I'm just like,
[01:40:48] I feel like it's a silly conversation to have.
[01:40:51] But it just, I'll keep having it if people want me to have it.
[01:40:55] but yeah you can say never forget
[01:40:58] and then get mad at me for not forgetting you know what i mean
[01:41:03] welcome ridiculous
[01:41:09] let's get back to our current president president donald trump
[01:41:13] and uh...
[01:41:20] and and his uh...
[01:41:22] a careless way of talking about the Iran war that he started.
[01:41:29] Just point to the sign, yeah, it's stuff like this.
[01:41:31] Never seen millennials lack their own unique culture.
[01:41:34] Yeah, this is literally why I'm saying
[01:41:36] like these guys don't realize that.
[01:41:45] Like the notion that I have the 9-11,
[01:41:48] the notion that I support 9-11 is fucking idiotic.
[01:41:52] Okay, if we were being serious about this, I mean Pat Robertson
[01:41:59] Famously alongside numerous other commentators at the time from the right said America deserved 9-11 because he agreed with us all
[01:42:06] I've been lot in that America was was too gay
[01:42:09] Okay
[01:42:10] He said that
[01:42:12] Do people think he's pro 9-11?
[01:42:16] Do people still
[01:42:18] Use that. I mean, he's dead now, right? I'm pretty sure but like no, of course not because he's fucking televangel. He's the Christian
[01:42:24] Televangelist. He's white. Nobody gives a shit. He's a conservative
[01:42:27] Right. The only reason why people say that I celebrate 9-11 is because my name is a song and I'm critical of American interventions
[01:42:35] And I'm critical of American imperialism. That's it
[01:42:48] There were 100% of Asmongole Chatters who were meeting about it on 4chan in like 2003, 2004.
[01:42:58] Yes. My favorite thing is when people, my favorite thing that I've noticed on the internet is when people who are 9-11 truthers, which Laura, with Laura Loomer is as well.
[01:43:10] Laura Loomer famously is a 9-11 truther, I'm pretty sure.
[01:43:14] Pretty sure she's like cast out on the origins of 9-11 in the past.
[01:43:19] Those people will be like, how dare you celebrate 9-11?
[01:43:21] It's like, first of all, I'm not.
[01:43:23] I'm not celebrating it.
[01:43:24] And secondly, you don't even fucking believe it to happen.
[01:43:30] Like, between you and I, who's more disrespectful?
[01:43:33] The guy who says it was a heinous attack that killed
[01:43:37] three thousand americans
[01:43:40] should not have happened
[01:43:41] but let's examine why it did
[01:43:44] or the person who's like yeah it did bill clinton did it or i mean of of george
[01:43:48] w bush did it or whatever the fuck these people believe you know
[01:43:51] there are those who don't even fucking believe
[01:43:55] there are those who don't even believe it happened there are people who believe
[01:43:57] it is a hologram
[01:44:00] yeah here's pat robertson on september thirteenth with jerry fallwell
[01:44:05] This is the first time that we've been attacked on our soil, first time, and by far the worst results.
[01:44:14] And I fear, as Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense, said yesterday, that this is only the beginning.
[01:44:21] And with biological warfare available to these monsters, the Husayns, the bin Laden's, the Arifats,
[01:44:30] What we saw on Tuesday as terrible as it is could be miniscule if in fact, if in fact God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.
[01:44:46] Well, that's my feeling. I think we've just seen the anti-chamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population.
[01:44:54] The ACLU, the ACLU has got to take a lot of blame for this, and I know I'll hear from
[01:44:59] them for this, but throwing God or successfully with the help of the federal court system,
[01:45:06] throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools, the abortionists have got
[01:45:11] to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked and will be destroyed 40
[01:45:16] million little innocent babies.
[01:45:18] make god mad i i really believe that the pagans and the abortionist and the
[01:45:23] feminist and the gays and the lesbians
[01:45:26] yes brother of course they said america deserve nine eleven and not only did they
[01:45:30] say that they said america deserve nine eleven because of the a c l u and
[01:45:33] abortion is
[01:45:37] these guys
[01:45:39] are white
[01:45:41] and christian
[01:45:43] and yet
[01:45:44] their world view
[01:45:45] was far closer to Osama bin Laden's worldview, my man.
[01:45:51] Like down to the anti-communist sentiment.
[01:45:55] Down to the motherfucking bone.
[01:45:59] Do you understand how ridiculous it is?
[01:46:02] These are people who are far more influential in American politics historically than I ever
[01:46:19] could be, too.
[01:46:21] Yeah, Ron Paul's 9-11 comments in 2008, an intervention was a major contributing factor.
[01:46:28] Have you ever read about the reasons they attacked us?
[01:46:32] They attacked us because we've been over there.
[01:46:34] We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years.
[01:46:37] We've been in the Middle East.
[01:46:38] I think Reagan was right.
[01:46:40] We don't understand the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics.
[01:46:44] So right now we're building an embassy in Iraq that's bigger than the Vatican.
[01:46:50] We're building 14 permanent bases.
[01:46:52] What would we say here if China was doing this in our country or in the Gulf of Mexico?
[01:46:56] We would be objecting.
[01:46:57] We need to look at what we do from the perspective of what would happen if somebody else did it to us.
[01:47:02] Are you suggesting we invited the 9-11 attack, sir?
[01:47:05] I'm suggesting that we listen to the people who attacked us and the reason they did it.
[01:47:11] And they are delighted that we're over there because Osama bin Laden has said,
[01:47:15] I am glad you're over on our sand because we can target you so much easier.
[01:47:20] They've already now, since that time, killed 3,400 of our men, and I don't think it was necessary.
[01:47:26] Can you comment on that?
[01:47:28] That's really an extraordinary statement.
[01:47:30] It's an extraordinary statement of someone who lived through the attack of September 11th
[01:47:34] that we invited the attack because we were attacking Iraq.
[01:47:38] I don't think I've ever heard that before,
[01:47:40] and I've heard some pretty absurd explanations for September 11th.
[01:47:56] I would ask the congressman to withdraw that comment and tell us that he didn't really mean that.
[01:48:02] Congressman?
[01:48:04] I believe very sincerely that the CIA is correct when they teach and talk about blowback.
[01:48:13] When we went into Iran in 1953 and installed the shawl, yes, there was blowback.
[01:48:21] The reaction to that was the taking of our hostages, and that persists.
[01:48:25] And if we ignore that, we ignore that at our own risk.
[01:48:28] If we think that we can do what we want around the world
[01:48:32] and not incite hatred, then we have a problem.
[01:48:36] They don't come here to attack us
[01:48:38] because we're rich and we're free.
[01:48:40] They come and they attack us because we're over there.
[01:48:43] I mean, what would we think if we were?
[01:48:46] in many respects
[01:48:56] like nine eleven critique even immediately after nine eleven like jerry fallwell and up at robertson did
[01:49:02] is one of the most american things you can do
[01:49:06] okay one of the most american things you can do
[01:49:10] unless your name is a son
[01:49:12] Unless your name is a son and you're not a conservative and you're against conservatism
[01:49:17] You're against reactionary sentiment at which point you're not allowed to do that at all
[01:49:21] And it will be forever weaponized against you. It will be forever
[01:49:26] It will forever be considered. Oh, here's a guy who literally sounds like his name sounds like the people who did this to us
[01:49:33] Who loves it who thinks it's awesome that it happened. He's celebrating it. Look at this guy
[01:49:39] Right. Okay. That's it. That's it. That's the whole point. These motherfuckers literally agree with Osama bin Laden. Okay. They are in agreement with Osama bin Laden.
[01:49:53] As far as, you know, social liberalism goes, wokeness goes, conservatives, oftentimes, will hate the conservatism of brown people, of people over there, of people in other countries.
[01:50:12] They constantly talk about how they're wrong.
[01:50:14] Meanwhile, they are the American Taliban, okay?
[01:50:23] It is fucking ridiculous.
[01:50:31] We're actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle.
[01:50:34] The ACLU people for the American way, all of them who tried to secularize America.
[01:50:40] I want the thing in their face and say, you help this happen.
[01:50:46] How?
[01:50:47] If my name was not Hassan, if my name was Henry, there would not be this much discourse around my analysis on 9-11.
[01:51:04] I'm sorry, that is just the fucking truth.
[01:51:08] and there's plenty of examples of the ways in which white people continue to
[01:51:14] talk about 9-11 and don't receive a fraction of the scrutiny. Yeah, and Scott
[01:51:20] Hannity defended Falwell and prejudice and who committed treason by saying
[01:51:25] the United States deserve the attack upon it and its civil society in
[01:51:29] September 2001 by other religious men up places like himself. He profoundly and
[01:51:34] repeatedly apologize that I am I'm sure you're perfect in your life and
[01:51:39] that you've never made any mistakes I've never I've never committed treason like
[01:51:43] that I don't believe in the sincerity of his apology Scott Hannity how many
[01:51:49] times has Scott talked about me
[01:51:54] hmm how many times has Scott Hannity brought up my 9-11 comments over and
[01:52:00] over and over and over again. Does Scott care that I sincerely apologize for the language that I used?
[01:52:11] Wow! So Scott does understand apologies.
[01:52:17] Interesting. Interesting take.
[01:52:21] Anyway, let's get to the present day.
[01:52:31] President Trump declaring the conflict with Iran is, quote, small potatoes, defending his
[01:52:36] vice president who would not call it a war.
[01:52:38] Can you explain to the American people if this is not a war, what exactly is it?
[01:52:42] Well, I'll tell you what, a lot of people don't call it a war.
[01:52:45] I call it a military conflict because it's small potatoes for us.
[01:52:48] It's not a big thing.
[01:52:50] Small potatoes.
[01:52:51] It's small potatoes for us. Awesome.
[01:52:57] Great stuff, man. Great stuff. Thank you, sir.
[01:53:02] have died in the war. The president said would only last four to six weeks. More than six
[01:53:08] months in, nearly 800 have been wounded.
[01:53:10] Certainly doesn't feel like small potatoes. 18 service members have died. We're seeing
[01:53:14] record long deployments. You initially said this was last year.
[01:53:17] Why is it record long?
[01:53:18] In the 82nd era, we're alive now in the 72th year.
[01:53:21] How long were we in Vietnam?
[01:53:22] We're seeing record.
[01:53:23] How long were we in Vietnam?
[01:53:24] The US government was out for more than 250 days at sea.
[01:53:27] Democratic Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer writing, small potatoes tell that to the
[01:53:31] families of the 18 troops we've lost, the hundreds of wounded service members.
[01:53:36] Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, a combat veteran, posting on social media, this whole war is
[01:53:40] just a game to Trump.
[01:53:42] The president later acknowledged the human toll of the war.
[01:53:44] We lost 18 souls, 18 great souls.
[01:53:47] I was there to greet the families of those people at Dover, and they're great.
[01:53:51] I got a great family with some of the families, they're incredible families.
[01:53:55] It comes as the conflict is driving up fuel prices, diesel reaching a record high.
[01:54:00] The president touting a bright spot for the economy,
[01:54:03] a better than expected jobs report.
[01:54:05] It's been amazing.
[01:54:06] And today, they announced 162,000 new jobs.
[01:54:12] So back to that conflict with Iran.
[01:54:13] The US did launch strikes on Iran just days ago
[01:54:16] for the first time in recent weeks.
[01:54:17] The president still won't say when exactly all of this
[01:54:19] will end.
[01:54:20] But again, we are far past his four to six week timeline.
[01:54:23] Sure isn't so much at stake here.
[01:54:24] Thank you, Rachel, for that.
[01:54:25] Fox News Alerts!
[01:54:33] Back to Bag is really funny for him to go, that's just small potatoes and then it's like
[01:54:37] Fox News Alert, US strikes three Iranian oil tankers.
[01:54:41] IRGC says it will target US warships more after firing anti-ship ballistic missiles at some
[01:54:46] this morning.
[01:54:47] Yeah, this explains all those missiles launched towards the Shreddha Hormuz yesterday.
[01:54:51] The IRGC still hasn't made any statement on the launches yesterday.
[01:54:54] IRGC has made a statement, now saying a warning is issued to the American terrorist army if
[01:54:59] it continues its malicious actions in security and interference with Iranian ships, and if
[01:55:03] it continues to naval blockade on Iran, the strikes of the Islamic Republic of Iran's
[01:55:06] armed forces against American military vessels in the region will be more severe than before
[01:55:11] and their scope will expand. We'll see. We'll see if that's within their capabilities
[01:55:17] they're aiming at the carriers now. It's interesting, you know maybe who knows who knows where this
[01:55:30] This goes folks, who knows where this goes?
[01:55:46] SENTCOM says the U.S. has struck three Iranian oil tankers after Iran launched ballistic missiles
[01:55:52] toward two U.S. Navy warships.
[01:55:54] This, as President Trump calls for new energy.
[01:55:56] Come on, man.
[01:55:57] She's having a bad hair day, bro.
[01:55:59] Who amongst us?
[01:56:00] amongst those hasn't had a fucking bad hair day like that it's funny
[01:56:16] he looks like shit dude it's crazy how bad he looks like all the fucking time
[01:56:24] she routes to reduce the world's dependence on the straight of her moves
[01:56:28] Alex Hogan is at the White House with more. Alex.
[01:56:31] Hi Molly, so new escalation today as you mentioned, US Central Command just in the last 30 minutes announced that they did in fact fire upon these new Iranian crude oil tankers after the IRGC fired at two Navy warships.
[01:56:47] A U.S. official is telling Fox in reaction to all of this, quote, the IRGC can build more
[01:56:52] tankers and the tankers are the heart of their economy.
[01:56:56] They know it and it puts them in a tougher decision.
[01:56:58] So all of this escalation comes just this week.
[01:57:01] We heard Vice President say that he does not see this conflict as a war.
[01:57:05] He wouldn't call it that.
[01:57:06] President Trump, when he was asked about this, he said this.
[01:57:10] call it a military conflict because it's small potatoes for us, it's not a big thing.
[01:57:17] Swift backlash to those words. Chuck Schumer writing online, quote, tell that to the families
[01:57:22] of the 18 troops we've lost and the hundreds of wounded service members and the Americans
[01:57:26] suffering every single day for record high prices. Ahead of Labor Day weekend, Diesel
[01:57:31] hitting a record $5.85 a gallon on Friday with AAA predicting that travelers will
[01:57:36] face the highest prices ever on the holiday weekend. Trump yesterday argued the new pipelines
[01:57:43] in transportation routes across the Middle East could reduce the world's reliance on
[01:57:48] the Strait of Hormuz. A lot of alternatives are being made to the
[01:57:52] Harman Strait. The Harman Strait is not what it used to be. Iran is going to end up
[01:57:56] if they don't get smart, really smart, which I don't know if they can. I don't
[01:58:02] know if they're able to do that, but they're going to end up with a Harman Strait
[01:58:05] that's not very necessary anymore.
[01:58:08] An energy experts debate whether that could replace
[01:58:10] the massive volumes in the strait
[01:58:12] or the timeline of how long this could take.
[01:58:14] But meantime, President Trump,
[01:58:15] during those comments yesterday, also told reporters
[01:58:18] that US Special Envoy Steve Wittkopf and Jared Kushner
[01:58:21] would attempt to broker a peace agreement
[01:58:23] between Russia and Ukraine.
[01:58:24] Well, the pair arrived in Moscow today,
[01:58:26] as you can see in this image right here.
[01:58:28] The war there is now in its fifth year.
[01:58:30] Anytime President Trump this weekend
[01:58:32] is at one of his properties,
[01:58:33] its golf course in Bedminster, New Jersey.
[01:58:36] Molly.
[01:58:37] Alex Hogan, thank you very much,
[01:58:39] bringing us up to date on all of the things happening
[01:58:41] in Washington.
[01:58:42] And for more on the SENTCOM strikes
[01:58:45] that were just carried out moments ago,
[01:58:46] let's bring in retired US Army battalion commander,
[01:58:49] Lieutenant Colonel Darren Gov.
[01:58:51] Sir, thank you for giving us your time
[01:58:53] on this Saturday morning.
[01:58:55] I'd like to start with these strikes.
[01:58:57] What is the message that America is sending
[01:58:59] with the proximity of these strikes,
[01:59:01] the target of these strikes?
[01:59:03] What should Iran know in this moment?
[01:59:06] Well, first of all, if you attempt to strike
[01:59:08] or maybe ship-shakele,
[01:59:09] good thing about pipelines,
[01:59:10] they can't be hit by missiles, yes.
[01:59:13] Especially when they're stable
[01:59:15] and can't move around in the way that like oil tankers can.
[01:59:21] Famously pipelines are resistant
[01:59:27] to missile and drone strikes.
[01:59:30] Famously pipelines also can't,
[01:59:32] can move as many units as like a like a vlcc or whatever it's called like the major very large
[01:59:38] carriers can right those massive super tankers
[01:59:45] pipelines they're both stable and also non-stationary okay
[01:59:52] Not only that, but also can't carry the same level of volume as these super large oil tankers can,
[02:00:11] and also are obviously susceptible to drone strikes and missile strikes.
[02:00:17] So there's that too, uh, it's...
[02:00:22] What is this?
[02:00:25] You missed this?
[02:00:26] Oh, God!
[02:00:27] Good fucking God, photojournals.
[02:00:29] Evelyn Hoxley took this on September 2nd.
[02:00:31] It looks like something that crawled out of a horror movie and asked for a microphone.
[02:00:34] Jesus Christ.
[02:00:35] Stop showing me ugly Trump, please.
[02:00:38] It's disastrous.
[02:00:39] He's fucking ruining my vibes, man.
[02:00:43] Yeah, IRGC also said we targeted three tankers illegally navigating the Strait of Hormuz
[02:00:50] and three vessels belonging to the child killing America in other areas.
[02:00:54] First, we're going to return the favor and take out something that not only is an Iranian
[02:01:03] property, but those things that are most destructive to their economy at the same time, but without
[02:01:09] oil, you don't have an Iranian economy in the first place.
[02:01:12] So we're just telling you, don't mess with us, essentially, is all we're saying.
[02:01:17] The president also posted very recently that he likes the position where we are right now,
[02:01:22] much more with almost total control of the Hormuz Strait and their economy, meaning Iran's
[02:01:27] economy in total collapse.
[02:01:29] Do you feel like we're in a better position now than we were, say, a month ago?
[02:01:33] There are sort of this renewed back and forth going on right now between Iran and
[02:01:36] the US as far as strikes are concerned.
[02:01:38] We had a month-long lull, but do you think America's in a better position
[02:01:41] than that we were one month ago?
[02:01:44] I think ultimately we are.
[02:01:46] And the reason for that is because we are in charge
[02:01:48] of the three R moves and what goes to there
[02:01:50] is the things that we allow to go through there
[02:01:52] if we want to stop it, we can combine that with the fact
[02:01:55] that yes, we are bypass industry with certain things
[02:01:58] like pipelines across Saudi Arabia,
[02:02:00] lines cutting, making their own pipeline.
[02:02:03] And by the way, we just signed this massive oil deal
[02:02:05] with Venezuela, which will be effective at some point
[02:02:09] when it's ready to be,
[02:02:11] when the oil is ready to be pumped in large volumes
[02:02:13] out of that country as well.
[02:02:14] So I think Trump is right when it comes to saying
[02:02:17] that the strait itself would become less relevant over time.
[02:02:22] That doesn't mean that it's not still important
[02:02:24] as a point of leverage to Iran
[02:02:26] and still important as a choke point
[02:02:27] for world energy supplies
[02:02:29] just because you can't replace the volume and speed
[02:02:32] that moves through there now.
[02:02:34] But this is economic warfare.
[02:02:35] It does take time.
[02:02:37] It's not flashy.
[02:02:39] but it can be very effective in a month later.
[02:02:41] I think we're closer to seeing that tipping point,
[02:02:44] I guess, that Trump was looking.
[02:02:48] I love guys like this, by the way.
[02:02:50] Like, he's like, I love America.
[02:02:53] I need you to understand.
[02:02:54] Look at my 1776 flag.
[02:02:57] I wrote a book called Veritas Vincen,
[02:02:59] a soldier's print of untruth, faith, family, and freedom.
[02:03:03] Who the fuck is this Ford?
[02:03:04] Like, I just don't understand who would read this book.
[02:03:09] Lieutenant Colonel Darren Gov retired US Army battalion commander tells us what's what
[02:03:18] He's here to tell us that the America's actually America's dicks are hard right now. We're and we're showing it
[02:03:24] We're striking with our dicks or Cox are out. I
[02:03:27] Don't know his flag is kind of small his flag pin is kind of small too
[02:03:30] before conditions arrive that could actually get the people of Iran to stand up for their
[02:03:40] own freedom and against their own dictators.
[02:03:42] Yeah.
[02:03:43] Great point about the diversification.
[02:03:45] Why would they do this?
[02:03:49] Why?
[02:03:51] Why would?
[02:03:54] Why would?
[02:03:57] Any person right now?
[02:04:00] Any person in Iran right now be like, you know who is on my side?
[02:04:03] The people who are fucking blowing my shit up.
[02:04:11] America and Israel ruined the chances of fomenting any sort of instability or rebellion when
[02:04:17] they when they had black clouds over the Tehran sky.
[02:04:26] And Israel struck the oil refineries and engaged in chemical warfare against the regular Iranian
[02:04:34] civil society against the regular Iranian society broadly.
[02:04:40] It's just not going to happen.
[02:04:44] People have the opposite demand where they want the Iranian government to strike back
[02:04:47] even harder.
[02:04:49] efforts that are underway and on that point of economic warfare Treasury Secretary Scott Besson on Thursday welcomed the European Union's decision to join what he
[02:04:57] has called Operation Economic Outcast. They want to ensure that the global financial system that helps to prop up Iran takes bigger and bigger hits along the way.
[02:05:07] Now there are still some countries that are helping Iran we know that but do you think this will have a major impact to have the Europeans on the same team in this
[02:05:16] economic part of the puzzle?
[02:05:20] Well, yeah, it'll certainly have an impact as we watch that develop also,
[02:05:23] but I think the biggest impact will be the continued lifeline that China
[02:05:28] supplies Iran right now and whether or not that's ever,
[02:05:31] that ever gets affected through the economic order for through the sanctions
[02:05:34] and things like that.
[02:05:35] Certainly all four having the Europeans aligned with us finally on this
[02:05:40] aspect of this conflict,
[02:05:42] it certainly helped speed up the process to a point.
[02:05:45] But what I'm, yes, what I'm watching very closely is how Iran's, essentially their bosses
[02:05:53] in their economic lifelines in Russia and China react and whether or not they change course
[02:05:58] in any way, either.
[02:06:00] You know, as we talk about keeping an eye on Iran and what they're doing, they have,
[02:06:04] once again, launched attacks on their nearby neighbors, their nearby allies, Jordan,
[02:06:09] Bahrain, Kuwait, all facing renewed attacks in the Houthis, in Yemen, also taking some
[02:06:15] strikes reportedly towards Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia yet to confirm the most
[02:06:19] recent military strikes that the Houthis are claiming. Your thoughts on the
[02:06:23] efforts still underway for Ron to show that they still have some elements of
[02:06:27] military capability?
[02:06:31] In my, that's the key is they want to be able to show that they have some capability.
[02:06:35] What you're not seeing is the large barrages that were part of the
[02:06:38] conflict at the end of February and into March because they simply can't
[02:06:42] do that and their ultimate goal is to survive and to survive they have to be able to show that they
[02:06:47] are able to do even a little bit and so that's all they're doing is yeah people suffocate it and it
[02:06:52] rained acid in Tehran when they bombed the four oil depots back in april people are not going to
[02:06:57] forget that people are not going to forget the the the minop school bombing as well like these are
[02:07:04] these are things that people are just not going to cast aside right?
[02:07:07] They're three million people who listen to Hassan, I want to offer.
[02:07:12] Oh yeah, I mean, this is a very woke subreddit.
[02:07:16] They're so woke that they got blacklisted by Reddit chatter.
[02:07:21] Anyway, we're talking about something different right now.
[02:07:24] Okay, so Hamid Rezazizi, Senior Analyst at Christ Group reports.
[02:07:29] Iran attempts to break the US naval blockade.
[02:07:32] The context of the US attack on Iran and oil tankers near Karg Island is now clear.
[02:07:36] According to CENTCOM, Iranian forces fired ballistic missiles towards two U.S. warships
[02:07:39] causing no damage.
[02:07:40] U.S. forces then attacked three Iranian oil tankers and rendered them inoperable.
[02:07:45] This is important because the U.S. strike was apparently not retaliation for Iran's attacks
[02:07:48] on commercial shipping in the Strait of Hormuz.
[02:07:50] It followed, and Iranian attempted directly target the American naval forces in enforcing
[02:07:54] the blockade.
[02:07:56] That appears to mark a new phase of escalation, until now Iran's maritime operations
[02:08:00] have focused on tankers and commercial shipping in and around Hormuz.
[02:08:05] as direct attacks on U.S. forces were directed at American base across the region, attempting
[02:08:10] to strike U.S. warships enforcing the blockade, therefore, crosses a different threshold.
[02:08:16] The attempt failed, but there is no reason to assume that the next one will. A successful
[02:08:20] strike, especially one causing significant U.S. casualties, could rapidly transform
[02:08:25] the conflict. This is also consistent with what I argued in my latest time article. Intensifying
[02:08:30] economic pressure does not necessarily make Tehran more cautious.
[02:08:34] If Iranian leaders conclude that the pressure is becoming economically or strategically
[02:08:37] unsustainable, they have stronger incentives to take the initiative and change the equation.
[02:08:41] This is what I said as well.
[02:08:43] If you remember, Iran currently holds the pacing of the conflict.
[02:08:47] If Iran feels like the economic strangulation is taking root, and it's actually causing
[02:08:52] instability in a regular Iranian society, if there's too much harm being done to
[02:08:58] the Iranian population, they are not going to deescalate.
[02:09:02] They have every incentive to escalate further, to meet the standard of pressure on the battlefield
[02:09:10] where they have the upper hand.
[02:09:13] Now we can talk about whether or not Iran has the capabilities.
[02:09:17] So far, Iranian restraint, as we've understood since the beginning of Operation Epstein-Fury
[02:09:24] with the tit-for-tat that's taken place with the control over the Strait of Hormuz,
[02:09:27] blockade that they've been able to implement and continue.
[02:09:32] Iran rarely ever demonstrates strategic restraint because
[02:09:36] of their lack of capacity.
[02:09:40] Iran demonstrates strategic restraint
[02:09:41] because they are very patient about what they unveil
[02:09:45] within their capabilities.
[02:09:48] Ironically enough, it turns into Iran
[02:09:51] having some semblance of contingencies,
[02:09:54] having some kind of additional tools in the tool belt
[02:09:57] that they have yet to deploy.
[02:10:01] This could be an operation, a ground invasion of Kuwait,
[02:10:06] for example, something that they've entertained,
[02:10:08] something that they've talked about openly.
[02:10:10] Or it could be directing new ballistic munitions
[02:10:16] that they have, cruise missiles specifically,
[02:10:18] that they have for that they haven't unveiled yet
[02:10:23] for the American strike teams.
[02:10:27] we don't know
[02:10:29] the american attitude on this is clear
[02:10:32] we hold the we hold the same holding pattern we continue the blockade we
[02:10:36] continue the crippling sanctions
[02:10:39] and we ensure that iranian population the iranian population suffers
[02:10:45] uh... a devastating economic shock
[02:10:48] and this causes instability inside of iran
[02:10:51] and iran has no capacity to apply additional pressure
[02:10:55] on the battleground.
[02:10:57] Yes, I said ground invasion of Kuwait.
[02:11:01] Yes, this is something that the IRGC, at least some
[02:11:03] of the hardliners, have talked about openly, OK?
[02:11:09] Considering the Iranian tendency nowadays
[02:11:13] in the later stages of this battle,
[02:11:16] considering the Iranian tendency
[02:11:17] to apply additional pressure without getting
[02:11:20] attacked by America, you could see something unique.
[02:11:24] You can see something that they haven't done thus far.
[02:11:28] This is one of those things.
[02:11:30] Even attempting to strike at the carrier teams is new.
[02:11:38] I think the Kuwait ground invasion is less likely,
[02:11:40] given that the US has moved its forces to Jordan.
[02:11:42] I don't think the Kuwait ground invasion
[02:11:43] is less likely for that reason.
[02:11:45] I think it's more likely for that reason.
[02:11:46] They would not be engaging in a ground invasion on Kuwait
[02:11:50] specifically to kill American soldiers.
[02:11:52] they would be engaging in a ground invasion on Kuwait
[02:11:55] to gain additional leverage.
[02:11:58] I think the American troops retreating from Kuwait
[02:12:01] while still having some attack and strike teams there
[02:12:04] makes it more likely that Iran uses Kuwait as a upper hand
[02:12:08] as additional leverage that they strategically conquer
[02:12:16] rather than shy away because they are trying to fight
[02:12:22] fight American forces on the ground.
[02:12:32] For that reason, I do not expect the attacks on Iran and oil
[02:12:35] takers to produce greater restraint.
[02:12:36] Quite the contrary, the greater the squeeze on Iran,
[02:12:39] the greater the incentive to act.
[02:12:42] And the more Tehran comes to see that pressure as existential,
[02:12:44] the more likely it is to conclude
[02:12:46] that it has less to lose and that increasingly risky
[02:12:50] actions are worth attempting. Yeah, I don't think that Donald Trump understands this equation
[02:12:58] at all. I don't think he understands much. But more reasonable analysts on the Western
[02:13:04] side that are obviously anti Iran, very critical of Iran, recognize the danger that this new
[02:13:11] escalation that America is is putting forward will create for American forces and more
[02:13:18] More importantly than American forces, American allies, here is Dennis Satrinowitz, someone
[02:13:23] who we've been reading quite a bit from, especially since Operation Epstein's Fury started.
[02:13:33] He's a non-resident fellow of the Atlantic Council.
[02:13:35] He's at INSS Hebrew as well, senior fellow there.
[02:13:40] Not exactly the type of person that I am aligned with ideologically.
[02:13:44] And yet, he sees the writing on the wall.
[02:13:50] Here is his warning.
[02:13:52] This is a dangerous new rung on the escalation ladder, he says, reporting on SENTCOM's destruction
[02:13:57] of three IRGC oil tankers.
[02:13:59] This is the beginning of the conflict.
[02:14:02] Tehran appears to have deliberately hesitated using its college-farce anti-ship ballistic
[02:14:09] missiles against the U.S. aircraft carriers.
[02:14:12] Okay?
[02:14:13] that is within their tool belt, something that is within their strike capabilities, they
[02:14:18] have not used it thus far.
[02:14:20] Remember, America reads Iranian restraint as cowardice.
[02:14:27] But other analysts that understand the Iranian modus operandi understand Iranian strategic
[02:14:34] restraint not as cowardice, but as hiding the upper hand that they could potentially
[02:14:41] have later down the line.
[02:14:43] It is wrong to assume that Iranian strategic deterrence and strategic patience is weakness.
[02:14:51] It is not.
[02:14:53] The last six months should have shown that reality to SENTCOM.
[02:14:58] It should have shown that reality to the American analysts.
[02:15:02] And yet for some strange reason, America still continues to operate with this wrong
[02:15:08] attitude.
[02:15:13] Everyone has more weapons that they can use, that they haven't used thus far.
[02:15:18] The very fact that they haven't used it does not mean that they're scared of America, okay?
[02:15:26] It is so strange to me that we're still doing the same thing over and over again for the
[02:15:31] past six months on a daily fucking basis.
[02:15:34] It is so unbelievably stupid.
[02:15:38] Why are we still doing this?
[02:15:41] i have warned even when the naval armada was building up in the straight of
[02:15:45] hormones
[02:15:46] that these events
[02:15:48] would unfold
[02:15:49] and it would not be beneficial to the american position
[02:15:52] and every single thing that i said was going to happen has happened thus far
[02:15:57] if i
[02:15:58] can see it from the outside of not an analyst
[02:16:01] not a security expert
[02:16:02] i'm just a twitch streamer on the commentator if i can see the writing
[02:16:06] on the wall how the
[02:16:07] How the fuck did Americans, in the halls of power that have Trump's ear, not be able to communicate what was eventually going to happen?
[02:16:22] It is ridiculous.
[02:16:24] Bani Satrinowitz continues, okay? Tehran appears to have deliberately hesitated
[02:16:31] using its Kalijfaar's anti-ship ballistic missiles against U.S. aircraft carriers,
[02:16:36] likely out of concern that such an attack could trigger a majority American
[02:16:41] response, a major American response, and push the confrontation beyond the
[02:16:45] informal rules of engagement that have constrained it so far. Yesterday's
[02:16:50] attack suggests that another threshold in the Iranian decision-making has
[02:16:54] has been crossed. That matters far beyond the tactical details of the incident. It indicates
[02:16:59] that Tehran is becoming increasingly willing to accept risks it previously sought to avoid,
[02:17:05] including directly threatening some of the most important U.S. military assets in the
[02:17:09] region. I am highly skeptical that SENTCOM's response will restore deterrence. The more
[02:17:15] important takeaway is that Iran's escalation calculus appears to be changing, and in
[02:17:20] current environment, breaking another previously respected threshold, creates a dangerous precedent.
[02:17:26] The trajectory is increasingly clear, the Iran is preparing to escalate, not back down.
[02:17:33] That is what's going on, you don't need to see the fucking tweets every time I read
[02:17:37] a goddamn tweet, I showed it in the beginning, holy fuck what is wrong with you, this is
[02:17:42] my least favorite attitude demonstrated by chatters.
[02:17:45] Okay, take an hour off.
[02:17:48] I don't know why you guys don't comprehend that visually speaking, having the tweet on the entire time is not good for editors.
[02:18:00] I am not simply just doing this news coverage for you in real time right now, and your autistic ass feels the need to read ahead of time before I read the words myself.
[02:18:11] Don't know why you guys literally do this every single time.
[02:18:15] Now, that's 100% true, and I'm showing the text you're reading is trashed. Take a day off, okay?
[02:18:25] Anyone else got any issues? It is visually better for that text to appear on a full camera reading,
[02:18:32] a full camera readout when my editors are editing it after the fact, okay?
[02:18:38] Hopefully the editors can cut this part out because it annoys the shit out of me when
[02:18:48] people constantly complain about how I do things.
[02:18:52] Moving on, there's further analysis also from Danny Detrinovitz.
[02:18:57] This is from earlier today at 11.15 a.m. This is Danny Detrinovitz responding to
[02:19:06] The Molo Monitor reports the anti-ship cruise missiles launches from Kesham Island in southern
[02:19:10] Iran.
[02:19:11] This is the initial retaliation that came from southern Iran, directed at American carrier
[02:19:19] teams in the region.
[02:19:21] The target was likely a U.S. escorted convoy of oil tankers transiting the Strait of Hormuz,
[02:19:27] because remember, U.S. is trying to aid oil tankers in their passage over the Strait
[02:19:35] to Hormuz, oftentimes from the southern coastline,
[02:19:38] the Omani coastline.
[02:19:41] Right?
[02:19:45] Danny reports, it does not matter
[02:19:48] how many threats come from Sankt-Kam or the White House
[02:19:50] or how many limited military actions Washington takes.
[02:19:53] Iran will not accept a situation in which it can't
[02:19:57] not export its own oil tankers continue,
[02:20:01] while tankers continue moving through the Strait of Hormuz.
[02:20:04] this is the fundamental problem of the current u.s approach repeated threats
[02:20:08] have had little effect on iranian behavior
[02:20:11] and if you remember
[02:20:12] there is already iranian appetite
[02:20:15] maintaining the pacing in this current iteration of the conflict
[02:20:19] if you recall iran struck
[02:20:21] at the jordanian american missile bay uh... jordanian american bases
[02:20:27] america prompting them to do so
[02:20:30] this was a month ago
[02:20:32] and if you recall i said this
[02:20:33] Changes the equation on the Iranian side. This was right around the time when Iran started talking about potentially militarily invading Kuwait
[02:20:44] Iran is now run
[02:20:48] Almost entirely by the hardliners
[02:20:51] Hardliners who understand that military deterrence is the only way forward
[02:20:56] Okay, Iran
[02:20:58] decided that they would set the pacing and the tempo of the battle when they
[02:21:05] struck at the Jordanian American bases first, and now they're increasing the
[02:21:10] intensity as well. Because even while they were doing that, there was never a
[02:21:16] direct and deliberate attempt to strike some of the naval carriers. Americans
[02:21:22] might have made the assessment, the false assessment, and actually I will
[02:21:27] We'll see if it's a faulty assessment or not.
[02:21:29] Only time will tell.
[02:21:30] But Americans' understanding of the situation was Iran simply doesn't have the capabilities
[02:21:35] of striking our naval carriers, our assets, our strike teams that are aiding and abetting
[02:21:41] the oil tankers passing the Strait of Hormuz from the Omanin coastline.
[02:21:47] Iran is now showing that it has more tools at its disposal.
[02:21:50] It simply did not use them before, but now they're willing to use them.
[02:21:56] doing this because they want to show the American side, which is clearly not invested in learning
[02:22:02] a lesson here, that they do have the capabilities to strike the American naval carriers, the
[02:22:08] aircraft carriers, the naval assets that are helping cross the tankers through the Omani
[02:22:15] coastline. And they're showing that American retaliation towards Iranian oil tankers
[02:22:21] in the way that America has started striking Iranian oil
[02:22:24] tankers will not continue.
[02:22:32] This is the fundamental problem with the current US approach.
[02:22:36] Bani Satranohit says, repeated threats
[02:22:39] have had little effect on Iranian behavior.
[02:22:43] In fact, when the US president warns Tehran
[02:22:46] of devastating consequences, it continues attacking tankers,
[02:22:49] or even more seriously, US forces.
[02:22:52] And those warnings are followed by either no response
[02:22:56] or only limited strikes.
[02:22:59] Tehran is likely to conclude that American deterrence
[02:23:02] is eroding, not strengthening.
[02:23:06] Washington is therefore caught in an escalation trap
[02:23:09] of its own making.
[02:23:11] It does not want a broader war with Iran,
[02:23:13] but it also feels compelled to respond when Iran attacks.
[02:23:16] a major u.s. response risks triggering another round of iranian escalation while a limited
[02:23:22] response is unlikely to deter Tehran from continuing its attacks this is precisely the reason why the
[02:23:28] only solution to this is complete withdrawal the only solution the only manageable conclusion to
[02:23:36] this conflict which is what happens when you start a war and you fucking lose that war is to
[02:23:42] back away
[02:23:44] okay
[02:23:45] that's it
[02:23:46] that is precisely why washington needs to can reconsider its broader strategy
[02:23:50] towards iran tactical military successes cannot resolve a fundamentally
[02:23:53] strategic problem
[02:23:55] as long as they're on believes the status quo is intolerable in washington
[02:23:58] offers
[02:23:59] no viable diplomatic off-ramp
[02:24:01] your model continue trying to change that status quo through force
[02:24:04] under these conditions the next round of escalation is not a remote
[02:24:07] possibility
[02:24:08] it is increasingly only a matter of time.
[02:24:13] So then the next question happens to be,
[02:24:18] does Iran have the capabilities?
[02:24:23] Does Iran have the capabilities
[02:24:26] of increasing the intensity?
[02:24:30] Not just taking control over the pacing of this battle,
[02:24:34] but also increasing the intensity.
[02:24:36] Can Iran punish America further?
[02:24:39] Not just punish the rest of the globe
[02:24:40] by maintaining a blockade over the Strait of Hormuz
[02:24:44] and making sure that the amount of oil barrels
[02:24:49] that pass through are like seven instead of 20 or 100, right?
[02:24:57] But also punish America directly
[02:25:00] by burning more American assets.
[02:25:02] This time, not stationary assets
[02:25:05] sitting inside of military bases that they've been able to successfully destroy in 15 Gulf
[02:25:11] bases that they've been able to forcibly evacuate, according to recent estimates from Western
[02:25:18] press, but also non-stationary active military assets, specifically naval assets that are
[02:25:26] operating in the Strait of Hormuz. This requires Iran to utilize a very different
[02:25:32] type of arsenal, right? Because they can't just shahed drone these American, these, these
[02:25:39] American naval assets. They either have to come in with their go fast boats and deploy
[02:25:45] missiles from closer proximity, or they can use cruise missiles that are specifically
[02:25:54] anti-ship cruise missiles that they have not deployed thus far.
[02:26:01] Considering that there was also some western coverage coming from the financial times about
[02:26:05] how Russia has helped Iran develop new cruise missiles that are hypersonic, we shall see
[02:26:17] if Iran has more tools in its tool belt.
[02:26:22] The Hormuz letter, and I don't know how reliable this information is, says Iran's IRGC announced
[02:26:27] it carried out the single largest attack on the Shroud of Hormuz, striking six vessels
[02:26:30] with anti-ship missiles in retaliation.
[02:26:32] For this morning's U.S. strike on three Iranian oil tankers, transiting the strait.
[02:26:36] The IRGC says it struck three oil tankers, transiting the unauthorized routes in
[02:26:41] the Shroud of Hormuz and three additional U.S. Navy warships and U.S. linked vessels
[02:26:45] in other areas.
[02:26:48] The new aspect of this is the new capabilities that they're deploying, or rather the capabilities
[02:26:55] that they always had, but they're deploying for the first time ever against U.S. naval
[02:27:00] strike teams.
[02:27:04] Another WAPO hit piece is not a hit piece.
[02:27:10] It's actually not a hit piece at all.
[02:27:11] I said, headline is click weight.
[02:27:13] The article is actually very fair and balanced coverage.
[02:27:25] One day we will know the extent of Masatzei bought farms that have conquered this site.
[02:27:30] Rabbi Kalkhattlz is fuck off Nazi and then Woofer says, sand and word, nice.
[02:27:39] This guy says, forgive my intrusion, I spit in this Islamist mouth without the need of
[02:27:43] being a Jewbot.
[02:27:45] Dog abuser Islamist terrorism propagandist is the best fitting long title.
[02:27:51] Nice.
[02:27:53] You're a normal guy.
[02:28:06] Iran making the American suburb scream.
[02:28:23] Following Iran's preemptive attack on Jordan just moments ago, Iranian channels are now
[02:28:27] sharing this video this morning's speech by Iran's military spokesperson.
[02:28:30] He says Iran's military doctrine has shifted since the 12 day war towards preemptive shikes.
[02:28:35] This is what I was talking about.
[02:28:36] So this is like the Iranian military spokesperson openly saying that they're they're gonna start doing preemptive strikes
[02:28:42] Iran will from now on strike perceived threats before they have the ability to attack
[02:28:46] He says recent operations against US positions and anti-Iranian separatist groups
[02:28:49] Were meant both to deter future attacks and deny the enemy the initiative and that this policy will continue
[02:28:56] Wherever Iran believes it faces an imminent threat a few hours later and Iran carried out preemptive attacks on US bases in Jordan
[02:29:04] Iran, carrying out its long telegraph shift towards a more offensive posture away from
[02:29:09] the previous cautious approach of assassinated leader Ali Khamenei, is no surprise to those
[02:29:13] of us who have been learning from analysts like Hamid Reza.
[02:29:17] Hamid Reza is easy.
[02:29:28] Not that it matters because I don't think any American actually pays any attention to
[02:29:33] what we talk about here because I think they would rather be blinded. They would rather
[02:29:39] operate blindly with blind fealty, blind loyalty towards whatever the American side is stating.
[02:29:49] Here's more information. For the first time, unpublished images are released showing surveillance
[02:29:52] and action taken against violating vessels, decisive action and management by the
[02:29:55] Navy of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in the Strait of Hormuz. Any suspicious activities
[02:29:58] targeted? Let's take a look.
[02:30:02] We have controlled the straits this entire time.
[02:30:40] 100% edited by the Yemeni, I mean these are Iranian strikes though, so I don't know.
[02:30:51] But these are all tankers, these are all commercial shipping.
[02:31:07] These are all attacks directed at commercial shipping, none of these are Navy assets, so
[02:31:14] let's see.
[02:31:22] The use of loud incorrect noise, the Iranian social media interns should get a raise,
[02:31:26] yeah it's really funny they went the, yeah these are all, wait that might be.
[02:31:37] Yeah, I think that one that might have gotten blown up before it hit
[02:31:58] No, that shape is definitely commercial
[02:32:07] Yeah, this is all commercial. All of these were commercial. And one of them might have
[02:32:16] even been intercepted. This is just what they sound like for real. It's weird for how long
[02:32:30] there was a conception of US media that Iranians only had sea mines. Now they know that Iranians
[02:32:36] have different capabilities, different striking capabilities, it's just that I don't even know
[02:32:40] if they've mined the sea. That's the thing that I find very strange because Iranians
[02:32:47] for the longest time, the RGC said that the sea wasn't even mined, so they just kind
[02:32:52] of keep it ambiguous on purpose, it seems.
[02:32:56] Launching things here and there to be able to show or at least try to demonstrate
[02:33:03] that they have military capabilities to threaten the neighborhoods around them.
[02:33:07] And what they're doing in reality is showing one, that they're weak and they can't actually
[02:33:11] affect those decisions and two, they're isolating themselves even more by making a basically
[02:33:17] entrenching those enemies against Iran and, you know, what nations that could have been
[02:33:22] somewhat like allies to them, they're definitely not in favor of Iran, even though they've
[02:33:27] never really liked them in the first place.
[02:33:30] It's a calculated gamble on behalf of Iran, I don't think it'll work out because all
[02:33:35] it's doing is isolated them even more, because it's not having an effect on our decisions
[02:33:40] or those nations either because they're not asking us to leave.
[02:33:43] Lieutenant Colonel Darren Gump, thank you very much for your insights for helping us
[02:33:47] keep our coverage on this very, very current.
[02:33:49] We appreciate it, sir.
[02:33:51] Be sure to like and subscribe for all the Fox News latest on YouTube and catch full
[02:33:55] shows streaming now on Fox One.
[02:33:57] There is no doubt that the new sanctions announced this week on what Scott Besson of course described
[02:34:08] as an economic d-day for Iran, launching what the administration calls sort of operation
[02:34:15] economic outcasts are certainly having an effect or certainly will have an effect
[02:34:23] alongside that military blockade.
[02:34:28] I wonder how much pressure this campaign will have on China to get involved.
[02:34:37] Of course we know that there are threats against another global bank involved in doing business
[02:34:49] with Iran, and China, of course, gets 90% of its oil from Tehran.
[02:34:54] What do you make of China's position in all of this?
[02:34:58] Well, the Chinese, as you pointed out back here, they're sort of the mystery member of
[02:35:04] all of this.
[02:35:05] They reacted very strongly against what the President and Secretary Besant announced
[02:35:12] last week.
[02:35:14] They are coming up with alternatives to Iranian oil.
[02:35:19] It's a bigger deal for Iran to be able to ship to China because 80 to 90% of their shipments
[02:35:27] in 2025 went to China than it is for the Chinese who've got some other alternatives.
[02:35:34] But at the same time, China does not want to see the United States gain the upper hand
[02:35:40] here.
[02:35:41] And what's making all this more delicate is the fact that Xi Jinping is coming to
[02:35:46] Washington on September 24 and the president wants this to be a really successful visit
[02:35:55] and as a result, yeah, he's going to come to Washington DC on September 24 that he's
[02:36:00] going to be like free my boy, Hossie.
[02:36:03] That's what he's going to say.
[02:36:05] He's going to say free my goat free my goat, Hossie enough, enough with the lies you
[02:36:10] tell about my boy Hassan Bobby.
[02:36:12] Okay.
[02:36:13] Can you bring sheet on the stream?
[02:36:16] Yes, that's right. We're going to have dear leader Xi Jinping. His excellency will be on
[02:36:23] the broadcast. That's right. Why Iran hasn't sunk an American ship yet?
[02:36:30] No, do they specifically say that Iran is using anti-ship ballistic missiles? If the
[02:36:36] Iranians have shifted to using ASBMs, anti-ship ballistic missiles, we're in some very interesting
[02:36:42] days ahead, the scale of the US escalation here is telling they may have come close to
[02:36:46] hitting either a DDG or a carrier.
[02:36:49] I haven't read the article, but I did listen to the RWN app and wanted to point out the
[02:36:56] Chinese have actually done a lot of work to avoid terminal slowdown of ASBMs by avoiding
[02:37:00] on-board guidance entirely.
[02:37:03] Their speculation they intend to utilize 100% real-time off-board queuing.
[02:37:08] This is, I guess, Amit Konyats is writing on why hasn't Iran sunk an American aircraft
[02:37:13] carrier and what's up with anti-ship ballistic missiles.
[02:37:16] So Iran already has it.
[02:37:19] Iran has it in its arsenal.
[02:37:21] It hasn't deployed it yet.
[02:37:24] Well, I guess they have deployed it as of today.
[02:37:33] Is China letting Iran test themselves?
[02:37:34] No, no, no.
[02:37:35] it's on domestic
[02:37:38] Oh, we're not even talking about the Chinese ship buddy. Oh, dude dude
[02:37:45] We're not talking about
[02:37:47] Chinese gear at all at most you get like optics from China and shit like that
[02:37:52] But they're not they're not using Chinese tools. They have they have a fairly robust
[02:38:00] industry of
[02:38:02] domestic manufacturing specifically designed
[02:38:04] around withstanding American attacks, you know, underground.
[02:38:10] He doesn't really wanna press the Chinese too hard
[02:38:13] and have a blow up on this issue,
[02:38:16] as looked likely to happen when there were
[02:38:19] a G20 meeting this week.
[02:38:26] Yeah, which was happening at the same time, of course,
[02:38:29] as the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, the SCO.
[02:38:34] And the reason I was asking about China is because Xi Jinping is at that summit.
[02:38:41] The organisation has just issued a joint statement condemning the U.S. and Israel's war on Iran,
[02:38:48] as well as Western sanctions on some of its members.
[02:38:52] The Bishkek Declaration, as it will now be known, was signed by Xi Jinping, Vladimir
[02:38:59] Narendra Modi of India and Pakistan's Prime Minister, Shibaz Sharif amongst others, interesting
[02:39:07] in that Pakistan of course is playing mediator role in trying to find a diplomatic conclusion
[02:39:14] to this conflict.
[02:39:16] What do you make of that alignment?
[02:39:19] So it's pretty fascinating.
[02:39:22] If you think about a year or two ago, the most important alignment we were seeing in
[02:39:28] the world was China, with Russia and North Korea and Iran. Obviously Xi Jinping sees an
[02:39:36] opportunity here to pull two countries that have been in the orbit of the United States,
[02:39:45] Pakistan, which was given by the Bush administration the title of a genuine question. Why would
[02:39:50] China want to stop this? Simple answer. It's always the same answer. Stability.
[02:40:00] Stability, exclusively for the purposes of, and many know this already, I'm going to say it again,
[02:40:08] trade maxing. Not only does China rely on oil that comes out of the Strait of Hormuz,
[02:40:14] China also wants oil to continue coming out of the Strait of Hormuz and going to its partners,
[02:40:25] its trade partners. Why did China cut by half their demand, their imports of oil? Why did they do that?
[02:40:37] They did that so the rest of the Asian markets could breathe. Why did they do that?
[02:40:44] Because they understand that if the Asian markets actually collapse and they're competing with China,
[02:40:52] they're competing with China to purchase this oil, then China can't sell to them.
[02:40:57] China can't continue trading with them as it does normally because the entire world's economy
[02:41:05] me would collapse. This is the main reason why China has played the role of the great
[02:41:15] stabilizer and it's also the same reason why China does not want this to continue. Of
[02:41:23] course, China doesn't want it to continue.
[02:41:35] Major non-nado ally and Iran, I'm sorry, in India, which the administration has been courting
[02:41:46] very closely since before and since the Iran attacks.
[02:41:54] And the Indians have made it clear that they are going to keep their options open here
[02:42:00] as she tries to create an alternative power center that countries could be attracted to
[02:42:07] because the US seems both aggressive and unreliable. Yep.
[02:42:16] It's fascinating, isn't it? Iran, of course, carrying out retaliatory strikes against Gulf
[02:42:23] nations today. These cycles of escalation now seem to be becoming the new normal. I mean,
[02:42:29] I mean, we've been using that word and hoping that, you know, frankly, for those of us who
[02:42:33] live in this region, that we're wrong.
[02:42:35] But it does feel as if we are in this new normal.
[02:42:38] UAE presidential adviser, Amar Gagash said earlier this week that the region needs
[02:42:44] a quote, sustainable political solution or solutions.
[02:42:50] Donald Trump may be willing to sustain this level of tension, be perfectly happy,
[02:42:56] he says, in where he is at.
[02:42:59] I just wonder whether you think America's allies, particularly those in this region, will accept
[02:43:05] that?
[02:43:08] I doubt that they can over a long period of time, but right now they don't have a lot
[02:43:14] of choice, right?
[02:43:15] We're in this sort of strange nether world where we know that the post-war War II order
[02:43:23] has collapsed, something that you and I have talked about before, but it's not clear what
[02:43:30] replaces it.
[02:43:31] And so what we were just discussing with the ways Xi Jinping is trying to use the Shanghai
[02:43:37] group to sort of come up with an alternative is one possible outcome.
[02:43:43] But for the United States to retain both a technological military and, of course,
[02:43:48] diplomatic lead, it's got to become attractive to its allies and to its partners.
[02:43:56] And that's the work of the next few years, after all of the damage of the past year or
[02:44:02] two.
[02:44:03] Mm.
[02:44:04] Meantime, and I'm going to just leave this conversation with your thought on the following.
[02:44:13] Xi Jinping is visiting Egypt today.
[02:44:17] and I've talked about that Mishkek joint declaration, are US allies, do you think increasingly
[02:44:27] looking to China as a more predictable and steady partner, they haven't in the past
[02:44:33] and certainly do not seem to be offering sort of security and defence sort of solutions
[02:44:43] for some of these key countries, what do you make of all of this?
[02:44:50] So the big question is, how much do they go in that direction?
[02:44:54] You're absolutely right.
[02:44:56] What the Chinese have offered in the past has been investment and technology, right?
[02:45:01] That they would come in not only with trade deals and building ports, but also building
[02:45:08] communication systems based on Chinese technology, that of course has a certain appeal to authoritarian
[02:45:15] nations that want to use that technology to maintain power within their own.
[02:45:23] Really? David Sanger, really? I'm sorry.
[02:45:31] Especially when talking about this fucking region? What have we been doing?
[02:45:38] Like, what have we been doing this whole time?
[02:45:46] What the fuck have we been doing this whole time?
[02:45:49] With our security agreements with Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, with the rest of the Gulf, our maintenance
[02:45:58] of keeping CC in power, like our maintenance of the current security arrangement.
[02:46:04] What do you think that is?
[02:46:08] That's crazy.
[02:46:15] Systems, facial recognition, all of the things that China, the Chinese leadership has used.
[02:46:31] The question is, is that enough?
[02:46:33] Because eventually they're going to need to sort of choose some sides.
[02:46:38] And countries like India and Pakistan are trying to avoid having to choose.
[02:46:44] It'd be interesting to see what happens when Xi Jinping hits Egypt.
[02:46:50] Good to have you, David.
[02:46:55] Always a pleasure.
[02:46:56] And always-
[02:46:57] Wonderful to be with you.
[02:46:58] There's always something for you and I to discuss and we could go on forever.
[02:47:04] Thank you, David.
[02:47:05] Cheers.
[02:47:06] And we're so happy to have Ed O'Keefe here this Labor Day weekend, because now it's really
[02:47:09] ...
[02:47:10] I cannot believe Xi Jinping would coordinate security agreements with our authoritarian
[02:47:21] puppet leadership that we installed.
[02:47:32] Oh my God, Trump on Iran.
[02:47:35] This was yesterday.
[02:47:35] We missed it.
[02:47:36] That is incredible.
[02:47:38] Iran.
[02:47:39] China is obviously one of them.
[02:47:40] Well, not giving a good.
[02:47:42] China's been China's been very.
[02:47:45] I said, please don't get involved.
[02:47:46] The president, she had a very good relationship and they're not really
[02:47:50] involved, very little involvement by China. China could have plenty of involvement. They
[02:47:54] get 50% of the royal from the Hormones State. And by the way, pipelines are being built right
[02:47:59] now.
[02:48:00] Iran, China is obviously one of Iran's...
[02:48:03] Well, not giving a place, but look, China's been very... I said, please don't get involved
[02:48:09] to Presidentship. You have a very good relationship. And they're not really involved.
[02:48:13] Very little involvement by China. China could have plenty of involvement. They
[02:48:17] Come on man, he said please.
[02:48:21] Wow, you fucking wokes man.
[02:48:27] Excuse me, that's the American president and he said please.
[02:48:33] Excuse me.
[02:48:37] He said please? And maybe even thank you.
[02:48:41] Do you know?
[02:48:45] I said the G I told him daddy please don't do it daddy please don't hit me.
[02:49:00] And he said don't worry.
[02:49:02] I won't I won't do it.
[02:49:06] awesome. Most most powerful hegemon who have ever existed in the history of the world, by the way.
[02:49:21] And this is who's running the fucking show.
[02:49:27] It is pretty funny to think that Xi Jinping cares even a little bit about what Trump has to say.
[02:49:36] And isn't it simply putting him, keeping him at like arms distance to satisfy his like
[02:49:43] base desires so that he can secure a better deal out of this entire process and maybe
[02:49:50] even force it some semblance of stability.
[02:49:52] The time that people really start to key in to the midterm.
[02:49:56] So what are the races that you're going to be watching?
[02:49:58] So you know wherever you are across the country you'll be voting for something
[02:50:01] but if you're wondering what tips the balance of power there's a handful to look at
[02:50:04] we can start in Michigan.
[02:50:06] They have quite the Senate race there between Republican Mike Rogers, who ran two years ago
[02:50:11] and lost by only 19,000 votes.
[02:50:13] So the hope Republicans have is that they can snatch a seat from Democrats.
[02:50:17] But Abdul El Sayed, who's a former public health official in the Detroit area, is the
[02:50:20] Democratic pick.
[02:50:21] He's faced some criticism for associations with various socialists and progressives
[02:50:26] and liberal influencers.
[02:50:27] But this one will come down to a, you know, which team do you prefer, red or blue?
[02:50:31] Because the argument is the other guys are worse than we are.
[02:50:34] Then you go down to Texas.
[02:50:35] kind of something's up in Texas, the polling and the fundraising is suddenly giving Democrats
[02:50:40] an advantage there. We can begin with the Senate race, Ken Paxson is the Attorney General.
[02:50:45] Unpopular guy though, he's faced years of questions about his personal and professional
[02:50:49] past, never charged, never indicted, never, you know, any of that, but it raises a stenture
[02:50:55] on him frankly for some voters and certainly for his opponents that he may not be proper
[02:50:59] for the U.S. Senate. James Tallorico, a seminarian, a state representative, has raised tens of
[02:51:05] millions of dollars and Democrats, if they want to win, they believe this is their chance.
[02:51:09] They haven't elected Democrats statewide in that state since 1994, so that's one to watch
[02:51:13] as well.
[02:51:14] And Tallorico also, people think, has said some things that they think it's too
[02:51:17] progressive, right?
[02:51:19] Yes. He's said things about transgender issues. There's some other questions about
[02:51:25] capitalism and socialism. Those are the kinds of things that all these races seem
[02:51:28] to come down to one. Ultimately all voters care about this year with just about 59 days
[02:51:32] to go is the cost of things in place. We're bringing this back. Yes, I love the white
[02:51:37] board 59 days. Sometimes where's the white board? We'll soft launch it this morning 59.
[02:51:42] Wow, they've come to their fucking senses finally. All voters care about is the cost
[02:51:49] of living. Oh my God, who's been saying that one of the dangerous radicals associated
[02:51:53] with Abdul El Sayed has been saying that.
[02:52:08] Ironically enough, you know who else was saying that?
[02:52:10] Abdul El Sayed.
[02:52:14] Niko.
[02:52:14] I love it.
[02:52:15] Apologies to the graphics department.
[02:52:17] Listen, sometimes you gotta just go old school.
[02:52:19] I love it.
[02:52:20] Donald Trump was quite unpopular in term number one,
[02:52:23] But in term number two, he's hitting historic levels of unpopularity.
[02:52:27] And therefore, we're going to take you through the top ten from ten all the way to one on
[02:52:31] the issues in which he's dropping the most.
[02:52:33] And when we're talking about that, we're going to start talking about...
[02:52:36] What the fuck are these graphics?
[02:52:42] Graphics that make you go, holy Toledo!
[02:52:47] Number ten here on your list, I feel like Casey Kasem.
[02:52:50] Trump's immigration net approval rating.
[02:52:51] Of course, immigration has been such a key issue for President Trump since he first started
[02:52:56] running for the presidency back in 2015.
[02:52:59] And in 2018, at this point in term number one, look at this.
[02:53:02] He was not a popular man.
[02:53:04] He was 11 points underwater at that point, well under the Gulf of Mexico.
[02:53:08] But look at here.
[02:53:09] Looky here now.
[02:53:10] He's now 17 points underwater on immigration, reaching historic lows.
[02:53:16] Of course, this has come after all of those ICE interactions that we've seen, after all
[02:53:22] the stricter border security, which of course Trump and his allies have focused on.
[02:53:26] But the bottom line is this, we're seeing a six-point movement away from the President
[02:53:30] of the United States on a key issue for him.
[02:53:32] Now I mentioned, you know, he was in the negative at this point in term number one.
[02:53:36] But when we talk about Trump running for President, he won in part a second term
[02:53:42] because of immigration.
[02:53:43] You can see it right here.
[02:53:44] Look at this.
[02:53:45] Immigration he was favored on that issue over Kamala Harris by 14 points now
[02:53:52] He's 17 points underwater. It turns out that the promise of Trump on immigration has not met the reality
[02:53:58] In the minds of the American public they like tough immigration talk
[02:54:02] But when it comes to the way that Trump presents it and the policies he implements
[02:54:07] They don't like it nearly as much now. We this is literally just the reality with
[02:54:15] right wing legislation
[02:54:23] it's the most consistent
[02:54:25] is the most consistent
[02:54:28] most predictable
[02:54:31] attitude change
[02:54:34] it's how it always goes
[02:54:36] it's a dog catch in the car situation exactly republicans
[02:54:40] think they like certain policies
[02:54:43] and fucking despise it vehemently once it
[02:54:46] those policies are implemented
[02:54:52] here's the issue
[02:54:55] is a crop it is a communications crisis that democrats weren't able to
[02:55:02] actively position themselves against the reactionary framing on the republicans
[02:55:06] on the issue of immigration
[02:55:07] and it's a crisis in coms that they weren't able to explain to people what
[02:55:11] this would look like concentration camps the border constant door knocking operations like
[02:55:15] mass thugs of the state. I kept yelling about the democrats and their inability to communicate
[02:55:20] how bad the immigration ship was going to look like but no one listened.
[02:55:32] Speak about this six point shift away from Trump on immigration, but an even larger
[02:55:36] shift than this six-point shift away from Trump and immigration is another
[02:55:41] issue that of course Trump has been running on for years and it is trade.
[02:55:44] Trump of course wanting to put in interventionists or take those away
[02:55:50] and put in some protectionist, protectionist tariffs. And what you see
[02:55:54] here is that on number nine Trump's trade and tariffs and approval rating and
[02:55:57] term number one at this point look at this he was 13 points underwater. Look
[02:56:01] Look at where he is now.
[02:56:03] Look at where he is now.
[02:56:04] He's 25 points underwater, nearly a doubling, nearly a doubling of his negative net approval
[02:56:11] rating.
[02:56:12] This, of course, being a movement of 12, you know, it's funny today, I can't seem to
[02:56:17] write so well, 12 points away, 12 points away from the President of the United States.
[02:56:23] He's down there in the China Sea when it comes to his net approval rating on trade
[02:56:28] and tariffs.
[02:56:29] Now, it's not just that Trump is underwater on tariffs.
[02:56:33] He has turned Americans against the very idea of tariffs, because look at this.
[02:56:37] Look at this.
[02:56:38] Okay, U.S. on new tariffs on imported goods in November of 2024, just after Trump won
[02:56:43] term number two.
[02:56:44] You know, he was actually pretty popular.
[02:56:46] He was actually pretty popular, or the idea, his idea was pretty popular, on tariffs.
[02:56:51] 52% of Americans favored new tariffs on imported goods, just 48% opposed it.
[02:56:56] That 48% up like a Houston rocket.
[02:56:59] Look at it now, 64% of Americans oppose new tariffs on imported goods.
[02:57:05] It turns out that Americans aren't just turning against Trump on tariffs.
[02:57:08] They're turning against the very idea of tariffs, and that favor, that support down 16 points
[02:57:15] from 52 to 36.
[02:57:17] Basically an even issue.
[02:57:18] Slightly more in favor has become a two to one issue against.
[02:57:22] Now again, you know, we're talking about overall a 12 point shift away from President
[02:57:27] Trump on tariffs.
[02:57:28] that 12 points? Well, take a look here. We got an even bigger one for you. Coming in at
[02:57:34] number eight, Trump's health care net approval rating. You know, back in 2018, remember, Trump
[02:57:39] and the Republicans tried that skinny reveal of Obama here, which by the way is quite popular.
[02:57:44] But Trump, on health care, he ain't too popular. He was 18 points underwater back in 2018.
[02:57:50] Look at it now, though. 31 points. We've breached the 30-point barrier President
[02:57:55] Trump way down there. We're talking about titanic level lows here. We're talking about 31 points
[02:58:00] underwater. That marks a shift of 13 points away from the president of the United States
[02:58:06] on health care. Now you might be seeing yourself health care, you know, that hasn't really
[02:58:09] been popping off too much in Trump's second term. But that shouldn't take you away from
[02:58:14] the fact that what is important to voters isn't necessarily what is sexy. And this
[02:58:19] I. Here's the other problem from this day onward, especially after November, when Trump's massive
[02:58:32] tax cut bill is implemented because they backdated it to post midterms to soften its political
[02:58:40] consequences. But you are going to see people get kicked off of disability coverage kicked
[02:58:46] off of their existing government health insurance by alarming numbers.
[02:58:51] Remember that Rick Scott moment when I was yelling at Mike Johnson who was advocating
[02:59:07] for this tax cut and Medicaid and Medicare cuts for the tune of $800 billion.
[02:59:32] There will be a further cascading event downstream from these decisions where what remains of
[02:59:45] the American rural hospital system will completely collapse.
[02:59:50] Not that much to collapse.
[02:59:51] Let's be real.
[02:59:52] It's already in tatters, but healthcare crisis in 2028 is going to be so severe.
[03:00:02] It will look like the motherfucking hunger games.
[03:00:13] That is what we're currently heading towards.
[03:00:17] Just know, that's what we're heading towards.
[03:00:25] So remember, remember the tax cuts that Trump implemented for the super wealthy in this country?
[03:00:45] Yeah.
[03:00:47] You ain't seen nothing yet. We haven't seen the other side of that, which is the gutting
[03:00:56] of social welfare, social safety nets.
[03:00:59] I think it really just says it. Look at this. The biggest financial concern facing Americans.
[03:01:04] Look at what is at the top of this list. It ain't gas, which we talk about all the
[03:01:07] time, right? Filling up your car. That's at 8%. Housing, another big thing with the
[03:01:11] affordability crisis that Americans think are going on. That's at 14%. Food, which
[03:01:15] which we all need at 18%.
[03:01:18] Well, what's number one on this list?
[03:01:19] It's healthcare.
[03:01:20] It's healthcare at 22% so that when you see these giant shifts away from President Trump
[03:01:26] on healthcare going from 18 points to 31 points, that 13-point shift, that really matters
[03:01:32] to a whole heck of a lot of Americans.
[03:01:34] Now, I will say all this talk has got me a little bit thirsty here.
[03:01:38] So this week I'm going for a classic, a nice Coke Zero.
[03:01:43] Ah.
[03:01:44] Ah, why quenches the thirst but more than that gives me the energy
[03:01:50] Is he doing an ad for the rest of our time together so we're talking was he was that just another fucking ad
[03:01:58] Brother, I know he's doing calcium adds. Is he also doing coke ads? What the fuck is happening, dude? I
[03:02:05] I
[03:02:09] Look I want to love holy Toledo
[03:02:11] I want to love holy Toledo, but I can't stand when he does a calcium ad and it's making me feel like he's just doing product placement
[03:02:18] It's kind of insane dude. Come on. Please you're like a fucking pole guy
[03:02:22] I'm talking about at number eight right we were talking about a 13 point shift away from President Trump on the issue of
[03:02:28] Healthcare now slightly more than 13 points, but rounded round at the 13 points coming in at number
[03:02:35] Seven on your list, Trump's foreign policy net-approverating.
[03:02:39] Again, slightly more than 13, we're rounding it to 13, a doubling, a doubling of Trump's
[03:02:44] net-approverating in the negative on-form policy down there in the straight-up foreign
[03:02:49] moves.
[03:02:50] Look at this.
[03:02:51] In 2018, Trump wasn't that popular on-form policy.
[03:02:53] But again, what became big levels of dislike for President Trump has become historic levels
[03:02:59] of dislike for President Trump.
[03:03:01] a doubling in the wrong negative direction down to minus 26 points on the issue of foreign
[03:03:09] policy.
[03:03:10] Not too much of a surprise there, because again, what we're talking about, we're talking
[03:03:14] about Iran, we're talking about Russia.
[03:03:16] This has become a dominant theme of President Trump's second term.
[03:03:21] This has become the foreign policy presidency.
[03:03:24] If the first term was about healthcare, at least the beginning part of it, the
[03:03:27] The first part of his second term has become about foreign policy.
[03:03:31] And indeed, what's so interesting, of course, is even though Trump was negative in 2018,
[03:03:36] when we went into Trump's second term, he was positive.
[03:03:39] He was positive on foreign policy.
[03:03:41] It was a big reason why he won.
[03:03:43] Why he won a second term in office.
[03:03:45] Remember, Americans very much dislike what Joe Biden was doing when it came to the
[03:03:50] Middle East crisis, what was going on in Russia.
[03:03:52] And therefore, when Trump informed policy in 2024, look at this.
[03:03:56] Who was more trusted on foreign policy?
[03:03:58] Harris or Trump?
[03:03:59] It was Trump by a wide margin.
[03:04:01] We're talking about a 10 point margin here.
[03:04:03] And now of course we're talking about him being
[03:04:05] 26 points underwater.
[03:04:08] We're talking about a drop here of 36 points
[03:04:12] since the election, since the election
[03:04:14] at 36 point drop.
[03:04:16] Again though, when we're talking about,
[03:04:18] since term number one, we're talking about
[03:04:19] a 13 point drop.
[03:04:21] Now, 13 points at number seven.
[03:04:25] But again, we gotta go even bigger in terms of the draft.
[03:04:27] We gotta go even more down under water in terms of the draft.
[03:04:30] I gotta get more exercise, swimming down there in the fishes.
[03:04:33] We gotta get there with Jacques Cousteau.
[03:04:35] So what comes in at number six?
[03:04:38] Well, number six is something we all have to deal with, right?
[03:04:41] It's something we all have to deal with.
[03:04:42] We all have to get out our calculators right during tax season.
[03:04:45] And this is an issue that historically is a strong issue for Republicans.
[03:04:49] But not any longer, President Trump, look at this.
[03:04:51] Trump's net approval rating on taxes.
[03:04:53] At this point in term number one, again, he was unpopular at minus 10.
[03:04:58] But now, he's 25 points under water, and you know what that equals?
[03:05:02] Well according to my trustor calculator, you know what that is?
[03:05:07] That is 25 points under water.
[03:05:11] Kind of looks like a little bit of a, I don't even know, that kind of looks interesting.
[03:05:15] 25, let's see, there we go.
[03:05:17] now 25 points underwater and it's a shift of 15 points away from the president
[03:05:23] of the United States on an issue that usually republicans crush on and what's
[03:05:28] going on why is Trump so far underwater on so fucking awesome it is kind of
[03:05:33] awesome like we are I wish that the democrats were a competent party like
[03:05:39] like a competent anti-Trump party or a competent, like a competent, like, left party, because
[03:05:51] this is, I mean, this would be a, this would be an incredible opportunity to advance perhaps
[03:06:02] the most popular socialist agenda of all time, because Trump is against all of these things.
[03:06:09] is against everything. There is a high rate of negative polarization, but also on top
[03:06:14] of that, so much of what Trump has done is actually nakedly showing people what happens
[03:06:26] when you push for deregulation, what happens when you don't try to do it in a manageable
[03:06:32] or a reasonable way when you go all out, like Trump on imperialism. Trump engages in this
[03:06:39] vulgar version of imperialism. It's crass. It's rude. He says it openly. He says what
[03:06:45] he's doing openly. People don't like that, right? Trump on doge and doge cuts and deregulation
[03:06:51] and mass layoffs. Trump voters are abandoning him over the Iran War. Meanwhile, House Democratic
[03:06:58] leadership just handed the Middle East subcommittee to the only Democrat who supported it.
[03:07:01] Yeah, it's unbelievably frustrating.
[03:07:14] Yeah, a new poll from Navigator finds that 20% of Trump 2024 voters regret voting from
[03:07:18] the number one reason inside of the war in Iran.
[03:07:29] The situation reminds me of Kier's Labour election in the UK, unprecedented dislike of
[03:07:32] the opposing party, but the left party will likely do nothing with it.
[03:07:37] We cannot allow the Democratic Party in the United States to operate in the same way that
[03:07:41] Kier's armors' Labour did.
[03:07:44] That's what they want.
[03:07:48] We have to learn from the mistakes.
[03:07:52] We have to do everything in our power to fight back and to make sure that doesn't
[03:07:57] happen.
[03:07:58] Donald Trump was more dangerous than a Sompiker because he's the president of the United States.
[03:08:10] That hasn't changed.
[03:08:11] You do realize you can criticize multiple people.
[03:08:12] It's not a binary choice.
[03:08:14] Dude, I'm sorry, but if you're a liberal and you literally keep saying, well, we can
[03:08:18] walk and chew gum at the same time, as though like there's anything close to the
[03:08:23] same severity between Donald Trump and myself.
[03:08:28] I'm thinking of what you should do to yourself, but I won't say it out loud, you know what I mean like, but
[03:08:33] Honestly, it's an inevitability at this point like you're you're probably not long for this world, you know
[03:08:40] Because you are so unbelievably stupid that you are inevitably going to forget to manually breathe and just suffocate
[03:08:49] Like you have to be that level of stupid if you are like oh well
[03:08:53] We can criticize a twitch drummer and the president at the same time. It's like you could
[03:08:56] But those streamers that you should be criticizing are probably also on the right and not me you fucking idiot
[03:09:12] What is this meanwhile the opposition
[03:09:15] Punchbowl news to keep Jeffrey said he spoke with the representative Marie glueson camp Perez
[03:09:20] After she voted for the GOP rule Jeffrey said they had a productive forward-looking conversation and called her an important member of the House Democratic Caucus
[03:09:26] That's so awesome. Hakeem Jeffries unironically likes Marie Glucin-Camperez more than AOC.
[03:09:46] Just remember that. So she can spoil as much as she wants because she's spoiling in the direction that Hakeem Jeffries likes.
[03:09:53] taxes well we can simply put don't like the way that things are going with them
[03:09:58] on taxes don't like the things are going for them on taxes take a look at this
[03:10:01] say their income taxes are too high or about right well back during Trump's
[03:10:06] first term the plurality look at this 48% said about right just 40 don't even
[03:10:13] talk about Jeffries today bro just don't wait why
[03:10:23] I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
[03:10:45] Five percent said too high.
[03:10:46] to remember, I don't have Twitter on my phone, baby. So I am completely oblivious to whatever
[03:10:59] new, you know, whatever new thing is happening now. This is what I meant when I said it's
[03:11:07] like good for my mental sanity to not really have Twitter on my phone because when I have
[03:11:12] I check it so much. I'm like constantly on it. I'm constantly on it.
[03:11:35] What's gone on? Well, that too high number has jumped up 14 points to 59%.
[03:11:40] percent. That about right number? Down it goes, just like President Trump's overall
[03:11:45] approval rate. It's down there now to 37 percent. So what we're seeing here is an
[03:11:51] issue that normally what we see during Republican Presidencies is we see that
[03:11:55] about right number being much closer to where Trump was in term number one at
[03:11:59] this point compared to where he was at Trump term number two. So we're talking
[03:12:05] about a 15 point shift away here from President Trump on taxes. What is going to in fact be
[03:12:12] the next biggest shift away from President Trump? Well, we know it's going to be greater
[03:12:18] than 15 points. Issue number five, we're talking about corruption, Trump's corruption that
[03:12:23] at this time in Trump's terms. Look!
[03:12:29] I mean, if Democrats can't beat this,
[03:12:34] you can't beat your way out of a wet paper bag, man.
[03:12:40] And it's kind of wild that Democrats are...
[03:12:42] This is why I was so mad for the past month.
[03:12:47] month. The Democrats were allowing the Republicans to dominate discourse by being like, isn't
[03:12:53] Hassan bad? And it wasn't just about me, it was about all of us, right? It was all about,
[03:12:58] it was about the left flank. It was about the Republican Party knowing full well that
[03:13:05] establishment centrists wouldn't be able to stop themselves from entertaining their
[03:13:10] own factional battle and try to divide the base, which is the only way the Democrats
[03:13:15] lose right now. The only way. I'm not even kidding. If Democrats were united in a competent
[03:13:20] anti-Trump force right now, I think Angie Nixon would be a fucking Locke. Okay. If we
[03:13:27] were united under the banner of anti-Trumpism right now, Talarico out of the question,
[03:13:33] Blegs's and Ballorita would be a reality. Notice how I'm not even talking about Abdelal
[03:13:40] say it because that's already a reality. Lock after lock after lock. Meanwhile, yes, Democrats
[03:13:47] want to design an environment that's like a 51% marginal Gavin Newsom victory against
[03:13:54] like J.D. Vance or Marco Rubio and I fucking hate that so much. Yeah, it'd be Bluth Carolina
[03:14:06] it dude. It'd be Blouse Carolina. It would be blend tucky. I hate the shit. Meanwhile,
[03:14:35] Let's look at this environment where we could have Blendtucky, Blendiana, Blowhio, even.
[03:14:54] We will have Blaine.
[03:14:55] That's easy.
[03:14:57] But they look at this environment and they go, how do we make it as difficult on ourselves
[03:15:01] as possible?
[03:15:03] I got it.
[03:15:05] write 800 anti-left think pieces. It boggles the motherfuckin' mind. That's why I'm mad.
[03:15:21] Not because they're calling me an anti-semi, terrorist, whatever the fuck, right? I don't
[03:15:25] give a shit. Fuck them. Everybody hates these dipshits, okay? Everybody hates these fucking
[03:15:32] So that stuff that doesn't hurt me if anything it probably helps
[03:15:39] What hurts my soul
[03:15:42] What gives me tremendous psychic damage
[03:15:49] Is the fact that Democrats are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory once again
[03:15:54] I have seen this happen in my lifetime far too many times. We cannot let them
[03:16:00] them, take over the conversation, drive the narrative, lean into reactionary right-wing
[03:16:06] frameworks. We have to lock the fuck in and we have to keep pushing through it. How are
[03:16:12] you still boggling 2026s? You know what they are. I know. So we just have to beat them.
[03:16:18] That's it. We have to defeat them. And when I say we have to defeat them, I mean,
[03:16:25] We have been defeating them already, right?
[03:16:28] We've been defeating them already.
[03:16:31] We have to not only defeat them, but defeat them convincingly so that the rest of the
[03:16:37] country, the independence, the base of support for the Democrats, never look at another
[03:16:42] establishment Democrat electability argument with a fraction of the credibility that
[03:16:49] it doesn't even fucking deserve ever again.
[03:16:51] They will look at that electability argument with disdain, and they'll say, fuck off.
[03:16:59] We know you've sold us out.
[03:17:01] We know you've sold us out.
[03:17:04] We know that you had the opportunity to destroy the Trump regime, and in that moment we remember
[03:17:12] what you did.
[03:17:14] We remember that you spent that tiny amount of time we had, that finite amount of time
[03:17:19] we had attacking the left instead of uniting, consolidating support behind the candidates
[03:17:26] and destroying Trumpism in this fucking country. Okay? We will not let them forget what they
[03:17:33] did in this moment. We won't.
[03:17:38] So it's not about the establishment Democrats confusing me with their behavior, although
[03:17:46] So the intensity that I have seen from them, especially when the moment requires mental
[03:17:52] clarity and moral clarity, is a little bit shocking.
[03:17:59] Having said that, however, we will not convince the establishment Democrats in positions of
[03:18:05] power, but we will convince the masses that our message is resilient, it's resonant,
[03:18:12] powerful, good, and we will win. We don't have another option, okay? We don't have
[03:18:20] another option, at least for the time being.
[03:18:26] In 2018, in term number one, Trump wasn't too hot to try. He was at negative 13
[03:18:32] points. But yes, this is our, well, not yet, but we're nearing our brief
[03:18:37] spontaneous moment in a civilization. We're not there yet. I wouldn't say that we're there
[03:18:42] yet. But I will say how we move in this situation is very important because it sets us up for
[03:18:52] that brief spontaneous moment. That once in a lifetime, that once in a lifetime moment
[03:19:01] where we will have to seize on that opportunity and we have to be as organized and as popular
[03:19:07] as we possibly can be in that moment. When that time comes, we have to be ready. These
[03:19:16] are the foundations that we are setting forth. Okay?
[03:19:23] Look at this drop now to term number two. He's now at negative 31 points. My goodness
[03:19:28] gracious, that is a drop of 18 points. Woof! Now why has Trump dropped so much on corruption?
[03:19:36] Well, it may have to do something with his investments, because just take a look here.
[03:19:39] Okay, Trump-
[03:19:40] We need to demonstrate-
[03:19:41] We need to demonstrate the strength of our convictions.
[03:19:47] This platform, this program is democratically organized.
[03:19:52] This program is good.
[03:19:53] And it's also necessary, but it's something that a lot of people, I think for far too
[03:19:58] long, have been too afraid to dream about.
[03:20:01] So we have to stop shying away from our ideas, okay?
[03:20:06] We have to stop shying away and running away from our beliefs.
[03:20:11] We have to be very clear, but also very pragmatic at the same time as well.
[03:20:16] If someone, every single person in the United States of America, with the exception of
[03:20:22] the Epstein class, has an issue that this program addresses directly.
[03:20:28] So it's pertinent and important for all of you to identify within your neighborhoods, within
[03:20:32] your communities, within your workplace to figure out exactly what those problems are
[03:20:38] and talk about how DSA will address them.
[03:20:41] And the same goes for our politicians as well.
[03:20:44] For our electives, for socialists, for self-identifying socialists, or even those who are socialist
[03:20:50] curious who want to align with this program, they should also stop shying away.
[03:20:55] We should also stop apologizing to the cynical reactionary framework that the way these hucksters
[03:21:02] and charlatans in the media represent our values on.
[03:21:06] We have to be bold, we have to be brave, and we have to seize on the opportunity because
[03:21:11] there's far too much discontent out there.
[03:21:13] There's far too much anger towards both parties.
[03:21:16] There's far too much anger towards the system because the system does not benefit us
[03:21:21] and people are recognizing that.
[03:21:25] If socialism communism looks good on paper we have not so great examples in the past socialism is good our tuition
[03:21:34] If maga was smart they go after him for animal abuse and not the not for his 9-11 rat if maga were smart
[03:21:42] None of the policies you have a case for idiotic
[03:21:44] But the purpose isn't to let people hear those policies to distract and foster a deep hatred for Americans that want a better future
[03:21:49] I like that. He literally also
[03:21:51] also says like, I agree with this guy, but here's how you would more effectively go after
[03:21:57] him by slandering and lying about him.
[03:22:02] What would you call that ambition?
[03:22:13] What is that attitude you think?
[03:22:18] He's a terrorist supporter, peace from Fat Burger.
[03:22:26] He supports the Houthis.
[03:22:33] She's a DSA member too, who?
[03:22:41] What is this?
[03:22:48] Is it me or is this kind of crazy? Interesting American foreign policy history. She's a DSA member, too
[03:23:08] Can you afford a vacation right now no
[03:23:11] Not at all you go by groceries and you get maybe a few days worth and cost you a hundred dollars
[03:23:16] The big joke is you got to take a loan out to go grocery shopping.
[03:23:20] Can you afford to take a vacation this year?
[03:23:22] No.
[03:23:23] No, my high school reunion this year, 46, and coming from Texas is just too expensive.
[03:23:30] Can you afford to go on a vacation in these circumstances right now?
[03:23:34] No, I can't.
[03:23:35] Not right now.
[03:23:36] How does that feel like?
[03:23:37] What does it feel like?
[03:23:38] Oh, it's sad.
[03:23:39] It's sad because I have a wedding coming up in Dallas in November and I'm hoping
[03:23:43] to get married.
[03:23:44] November and I'm hoping to get there. You'll be able to if things don't get better?
[03:23:49] I will give it my darndest to get there because it's my grand, it's my niece. If you're filling
[03:23:55] up at the pump for a road trip you can expect to pay almost a dollar more per gallon. That's due
[03:24:02] to the war in Iran and if you're up in the air jet fuel prices are up too. It's AAA estimating
[03:24:08] that domestic destination tickets for the top destinations are up by about 20%.
[03:24:14] If you could pick one word to describe what it feels like to live under these economic conditions,
[03:24:19] what would that word be?
[03:24:21] Chaotic.
[03:24:24] 100% Chaotic.
[03:24:25] What's it like in America right now?
[03:24:27] I go without food often and I feed my kids.
[03:24:33] Brother, these can't go on, you know what I mean?
[03:24:36] And if the only thing if the only thing that these guys are fucking
[03:24:42] If the only thing that major mallets are for the most part covering is like dumb nonsensical fucking bullshit
[03:24:49] Then they're gonna get punished for it too
[03:24:51] You understand
[03:24:57] This is the problem there's a real crisis here there's a real economic crisis people are associating it with the Iran war
[03:25:03] Therefore, this is the most salient and anti-imperialist message could ever be.
[03:25:12] For years and years, I have recognized the impossibility of connecting foreign policy
[03:25:21] with the domestic for Americans.
[03:25:23] Okay?
[03:25:25] It has been deliberately kept separate by the media, by those in positions of power.
[03:25:32] It has been deliberately talked about as though it is an entirely separate issue, an entirely
[03:25:42] separate set of issues.
[03:25:45] Now Americans are under the recognition that these things are not disconnected at all,
[03:25:49] that they are very much connected to one another.
[03:25:57] So if we don't, if the Democrats don't use this moment to build a resilient anti-war movement,
[03:26:11] they're fucking collaborators, they don't want to win.
[03:26:16] It's not only the moral position, and it has been.
[03:26:20] It's also the electorally smart position.
[03:26:29] Billion dollars, billion with a B in term number two from crypto and other income.
[03:26:34] Look at this.
[03:26:35] Look what the majority of Americans say.
[03:26:37] They say that it is bad.
[03:26:38] They say that it is bad.
[03:26:40] No wonder why Trump's corruption.
[03:26:43] Wow.
[03:26:44] You mean to tell me only 57% of Americans think Trump earning more than 2 billion dollars
[03:26:50] $1,000 from cryptocurrency and other income utilizing the fucking administration only 57. God damn it. We are I
[03:26:58] Don't want to say we're a nation of cattle, but it is kind of at least 43%
[03:27:02] I don't know how many of them actually have no opinion on it or don't know what's going on
[03:27:07] But whoever said it's not a problem is straight up cattle. Okay cattle territory
[03:27:14] Straight the fuck up cattle territory
[03:27:20] Anyone oh, I guess it's a 7% to say it's good, but does not matter is also cattle
[03:27:31] It does matter
[03:27:35] Seven or cult 36 or cattle
[03:27:39] How about that
[03:27:42] Seven or cult
[03:27:43] That's the loyalist. That's the hardliners. That's the psychos the real freaks the hardened fedean
[03:27:50] Right and then 36 are cattle. I
[03:28:02] Like it
[03:28:05] Gucci belt has broken we very close to pitch force about half her cattle for sure
[03:28:11] I like it see the first the bumble die 11 one subscriber. That's a cultist
[03:28:15] Okay, he's not a part of the 36% he knows it's bad and he likes it nonetheless
[03:28:31] That approval rating has been dropping so much, but you think five was big how about we go to number four on our list
[03:28:38] Okay, Trump's not approval rating a number four
[03:28:41] government spending at this time in Trump's terms in 2018 it was minus 12
[03:28:47] points look at where we are now in term number two that's minus 34 points that's
[03:28:54] minus 34 points and doing some math here hold on I'm gonna do a little bit of
[03:28:58] math you know what it turns out down it doesn't back to equal bad it does
[03:29:04] equal bad we're talking about a 22 point drop woof now what's going on
[03:29:11] What's going on with government spending that Americans don't like well
[03:29:14] It really did start at the beginning of Trump's second term you can see it here
[03:29:18] Look at this the one big beautiful bill look at the impact on the debt
[03:29:22] Over the course of the one big beautiful bill. This is trillion with a tee with a tee up
[03:29:29] 4.2 trillion dollars over the I'm gonna repeat this one more time, but I don't think people understand
[03:29:36] What kind of
[03:29:38] catastrophic consequences this is going to have not even on the debt right what
[03:29:46] kind of catastrophic consequences is gonna have on existing welfare systems oh
[03:29:53] a dog I agree with you they're cattle in a cult I meant to say I like the phrase
[03:29:57] oh you misread me I'm agreeing with you I thought you were making a joke saying
[03:30:02] you're part of the cult
[03:30:08] Of course, the big, one big, beautiful bill, whoop, and it ain't too popular, it ain't
[03:30:24] too popular.
[03:30:25] We're talking about a net favorability rating of negative 27 points.
[03:30:30] My goodness gracious, the Yankees have a higher net favorability rating in Boston,
[03:30:34] Massachusetts.
[03:30:35] Now, do you think four was big?
[03:30:37] What about number three?
[03:30:38] Let's talk about, I mean, this one, come on,
[03:30:42] I think it's fairly obvious we all know
[03:30:43] that Americans don't like this
[03:30:45] if you've been following the polls.
[03:30:46] Trump's net approval rating on Iran
[03:30:48] at this time in Trump's terms.
[03:30:50] Look at this, in 2018, it wasn't too bad for Trump.
[03:30:53] It wasn't too bad, he was at minus nine points.
[03:30:56] Look at this though.
[03:30:57] Now, over the course of the Iran War,
[03:30:59] we've seen net approval rating tumble.
[03:31:03] It's now minus 36 points, minus 36 points.
[03:31:07] Some quick math here.
[03:31:09] What is that?
[03:31:10] That's a drop of 27 points.
[03:31:13] Woof.
[03:31:14] And what?
[03:31:15] What is going on?
[03:31:16] Why is Trump's approval rating on Iran
[03:31:19] drop lower than the straight up Hormuz?
[03:31:21] What is happening here?
[03:31:23] Well, how about this?
[03:31:25] Let's just take a look at how Americans
[03:31:27] feel about the war in Iran.
[03:31:29] Do they like what's going on?
[03:31:30] What are they thinks happening?
[03:31:31] Well, 75%.
[03:31:34] We're talking about three in four Americans.
[03:31:37] three and four Americans say it is not worth the cost. I mean, President Trump, pick up the
[03:31:42] phone, pick up the phone, talk with any American out there, and she-
[03:31:47] Dog, what are we doing with Harry Emden? Harry Emden has been losing his dang mind.
[03:31:52] He's like, he's, he's drinking, he's drinking Coca-Cola, talking about how refreshing
[03:32:00] of a beverage it is you got like a 1998 telephone what the fuck is this prop
[03:32:08] comedy man so they're gonna say we don't like this war more than that look at this
[03:32:14] 88% of Americans say that the board has not achieved its goals it's not
[03:32:21] achieved its goals so again no wonder no yeah best best we can do is continue it
[03:32:29] by the way, like that's another thing there are so many elements to tackle
[03:32:35] there are so many issues that the Democrats could make a bigger faucet
[03:32:41] out what the fuck are we doing wonder Americans have turned against President
[03:32:49] Trump in this war now you know all this talk of water straight up for moves I
[03:32:53] was talking about that valley made me very parched for thirst let's get a
[03:32:57] Let's get a look here. Let's get a look. Okay, the soda of the week. It's a classic Diet Coke.
[03:33:03] It's quite good, but I don't want to lose track of where we're going here.
[03:33:08] What? What is he doing?
[03:33:15] Okay, now this is weird. Is anyone saying anything?
[03:33:19] Oh my god, is Harry ending doing this is the second can of coke that he cracked open first to coke zero and
[03:33:33] Then calling it what the fuck is happening? Is he doing a add is this a bit? What the fuck?
[03:33:41] Is this a side hustle what is happening?
[03:33:49] He does this all the time. You never watch his videos completely. This is a meme in Mike's chat already for months
[03:33:56] He always opens a can of coke and goes this is this week is
[03:34:00] Beverage is a diet coke like what the fuck?
[03:34:09] Yeah, also as a real soda boy, I am disgusted by what he just did
[03:34:14] You should never mix Coke Zero with Diet Coke. Diet Coke is the superior parlor. It's BDS, so we don't touch it, obviously.
[03:34:22] Having said that,
[03:34:25] you're never supposed to mix and match. As a matter of fact, you only go for Coke Zero if Diet Coke is not available.
[03:34:33] Or if you're outside of the United States of America where the Diet Coke is different and Coke Zero tastes better than whatever kind of fucking diet Coke they have.
[03:34:41] It's what I would say if I drank Diet Coke, but I don't because it's BDS.
[03:34:49] And you know what?
[03:34:50] We're going to go to number two on our list.
[03:34:52] As I said, we're going from the smallest to the biggest jumps.
[03:34:56] And this one, well, it's related to the economy.
[03:34:59] It is, of course, jobs.
[03:35:01] It is, of course, jobs.
[03:35:02] And take a look here.
[03:35:03] Trump's not operating on jobs about at this point in Trump's terms.
[03:35:07] In term number one, he was on the positive side of the ledger.
[03:35:10] He was on the positive side of the lecture.
[03:35:12] He was at plus nine points.
[03:35:13] This is one of the first positives we've seen.
[03:35:15] But is it positive anymore?
[03:35:17] It ain't positive anymore.
[03:35:18] We're talking about a two, a two in the negative direction.
[03:35:22] Down he goes.
[03:35:23] Twenty-two is actually my lucky number, point out by the way.
[03:35:26] Down he goes.
[03:35:27] That is what?
[03:35:28] That is a twenty-two, a nine.
[03:35:30] That is a thirty-one, thirty-one point shift against the President of the United States
[03:35:37] on an issue that was so key for him in term number one.
[03:35:40] Now, why? Why have Americans turned against Trump in the second largest way on jobs?
[03:35:46] Well, why don't we just talk about one of Trump's big promises?
[03:35:50] One of Trump's big promises was to bring back manufacturing jobs.
[03:35:54] And you know what? He was actually doing it in term number one,
[03:35:58] changing manufacturing jobs by this point in Trump's terms.
[03:36:01] In term number one, look at this.
[03:36:03] Junotally we're talking about a gain of
[03:36:07] 342,000 jobs must have dollars there, but jobs do equal dollars. So I guess it doesn't make sense
[03:36:14] That's a promise fulfilled. That is a promise fulfilled
[03:36:18] Well, what's happened in term number two? What has happened in term number two? Well, look at this
[03:36:23] Junotly we have actually had a net decrease in that decrease in the number of jobs
[03:36:29] We're talking about 50,000 and so all told this is about a
[03:36:33] 400,000
[03:36:35] Job difference in terms of job gain when it comes to manufacturing between term number one and term number two
[03:36:43] now
[03:36:44] This brings us to issue
[03:36:46] Number one. This is what we've been waiting for right well to quote Jimmy Carbo. It's the economy stupid
[03:36:54] It's the economy look at this Trump's not operating on the economy at this time in Trump's terms in
[03:37:01] 2018 again a positive a positive dude. It's there's no recovering from this like
[03:37:11] There is no recovery from these numbers like
[03:37:15] These numbers are so bad that even if polling is off by like 10 points. It's still bad
[03:37:24] Okay
[03:37:26] Let's say Enten's aggregate is off by 10 points
[03:37:31] Let's say it's off by 20 points if he's minus 13 it would still be bad
[03:37:38] You understand
[03:37:44] They fucking hate this shit
[03:37:48] People absolutely hate this guy
[03:37:50] right. It's getting to a, it's getting to a point where like, remember how I explained
[03:37:58] the cattle versus cult dynamic? It's getting to a point where even the cattle are like,
[03:38:04] well, there's an undeniable problem taking place. So it's like chipping away at that
[03:38:08] 30%. Where the only, it's getting by by 2028, the only people that will openly and
[03:38:17] publicly say their Trump supporters would be like some of the most psychotic individuals
[03:38:20] if I mean I know that that's kind of what it is right now it seems like but it's going
[03:38:27] to get even worse than that like truly unwashed individuals like like the as men goals of
[03:38:33] the world are going to be the only one the only one holding on to the Trump agenda.
[03:38:39] Okay.
[03:38:40] Trump the businessman, he actually did it, yes, he did it, a positive, plus nine points.
[03:38:47] Well look at what's happened by 2026.
[03:38:50] Now I always love shouting this one out, right?
[03:38:53] What is this change that we're talking about here?
[03:38:55] We're talking about from plus nine to minus 33 and we are talking about, there it is,
[03:39:05] that is, get this, a 42 point drop.
[03:39:10] Wait, what? When I write that I like Diet Coke, then you'll know that either a PR firm is helping me, or B, I've been taken over by the pod people.
[03:39:26] What does that mean? We just saw him fucking down a diet, SOTY, a Diet Coke.
[03:39:35] Imagine Karnaki doing an ad.
[03:39:40] Imagine Karnaki doing an effort to die a mountain dew.
[03:39:52] That would be fucking phenomenal.
[03:39:54] I'll be honest with you.
[03:39:58] I would actually support that.
[03:39:59] 32 points against the President of the United States.
[03:40:03] And why is it?
[03:40:04] Why is this issue that Trump was doing so well on?
[03:40:07] Why have Americans turned against him?
[03:40:09] Take a look here, the effect of Trump's policies on U.S. economic conditions, now we're talking
[03:40:15] about two in three Americans who say that they have worsened.
[03:40:20] They have worsened it because of the effect of Trump's policies.
[03:40:24] Just 22% say that they've improved.
[03:40:26] Then we get 13% who say that has in fact been no impact because of Trump.
[03:40:32] And what is it?
[03:40:33] What is it that is driving this in terms of the economic conditions?
[03:40:38] Well, simply put, it's inflation.
[03:40:41] It's inflation.
[03:40:42] It was the reason that Trump got elected to a second term to charge the inflation crisis.
[03:40:46] We don't have a change because the pollsters didn't even ask about inflation in term number
[03:40:51] one.
[03:40:52] But now in term number two, in our latest scene, I'm, oh, look at this, Trump 50 points
[03:40:56] underwater, 50 points underwater.
[03:40:59] I went back through the history books.
[03:41:01] Again, I told you, I dug deep into them.
[03:41:03] I dug deeper into them than anyone has basically dug into any polling archive you could before.
[03:41:10] And no president before President Trump actually had a negative 50 point or worse net approval
[03:41:16] rating on inflation.
[03:41:19] Now of course, what does this all mean?
[03:41:21] Well, when it comes to President Trump, I'll tell you what it means.
[03:41:26] It means this.
[03:41:27] Take a look here.
[03:41:28] Trump's negative net approval rating.
[03:41:30] Every single poll, every single poll since March 29, 2025 has had Trump in the negative.
[03:41:40] He has been in the negative in every single poll since that point.
[03:41:45] You know how many days in a row that is?
[03:41:47] You know how many days in a row that is?
[03:41:49] It's kind of wild because we watch this entire thing and we're like, how do we, how will
[03:41:55] the Democrats fuck this up?
[03:41:56] And then someone links me a near attendant tweet, right?
[03:42:00] Okay, someone links me a near-attended tweet
[03:42:04] Your blind devotion to a twitch streamer who's attacked Jews black people and women makes a lot more sense when he watched the video
[03:42:09] We only say anything that negative feedback blah blah blah blah
[03:42:12] like near-attended and
[03:42:15] numerous other people like Shannon Watts who had a really funny oopsie moment, which I want to talk about briefly in a second
[03:42:24] they are all
[03:42:26] universally
[03:42:27] predispose with attacking their left flank and attacking myself as a as a
[03:42:33] stand-in for attacking their left flank.
[03:42:37] That's all they're doing.
[03:42:39] That's the only thing they're focusing on.
[03:42:46] The only thing that they're focusing on.
[03:42:50] This is how they snatch defeat from the Charles of victory.
[03:42:53] Depending on when you watch this, it's going to be about 500 days
[03:42:57] in a row plus. If you're watching this on Sunday, it's a little bit less than 500 days.
[03:43:03] It's more like 498 days in a row. But if you're watching it afterwards, it's 500 days. Now,
[03:43:11] if you are a member of the Republican Party and what it means to the future, that's what
[03:43:15] I promised you. I promised you at the top what this all means to the future. We've
[03:43:19] got a huge midterm election coming up, a huge midterm election coming up. And what
[03:43:24] What does this mean?
[03:43:25] Well, the midterms, the chance that Democrats win back the House, win the Senate.
[03:43:30] Look at this.
[03:43:31] Democrats now, the heavy favorites to win back the House of Representatives according to
[03:43:35] the Cal State Prediction Market.
[03:43:37] We're talking about north of a four in five chance, north of a four in five chance that
[03:43:41] they win back the House.
[03:43:43] What about the United States Senate?
[03:43:44] The United States Senate, the map was so much against Democrats, right?
[03:43:47] They had the win in red states.
[03:43:49] They had the win in red states, like Alaska, like Texas.
[03:43:53] Now Democrats are up to a 46% chance to win the United States Senate because candidates
[03:43:58] like James Tolerico are actually ahead in more polls than they are behind.
[03:44:04] So I'm going to use the phone prop again, Republicans, call up President Trump, tell
[03:44:10] him if you lose in the midterm elections, it's your fault.
[03:44:13] Oh, and by the way, this breaking legal news, this is in the biggest, oh yeah, breaking
[03:44:19] Trump loses mail voting ruling as judge blocks midterm scheme. So obviously Trump's the worst
[03:44:26] Trump's chances get the worst Trump's chances get the more Trump is going to try to, you know,
[03:44:36] molest the elections because he is Mr. He is Lester the molester, right? He molest the money
[03:44:43] all the time with the tariffs. He's molesting peace and stability in the Strait of Hormuz.
[03:44:48] He's molested the American force projection capabilities also in the Strait of Hormones
[03:44:54] And he's also trying to molest the male in ballots
[03:45:00] So just remember that that these guys are gonna try shit
[03:45:08] Okay
[03:45:11] They will continue trying shit they're never gonna stop
[03:45:18] And this is one of those initiatives.
[03:45:30] He wants to utilize the USPS to like stop people from receiving mail-in ballots.
[03:45:37] Legal midterm issue that we've been tracking, this is the big one and you know this Friday
[03:45:43] news dumps, we've heard about that and sometimes the courts are just keeping up with it.
[03:45:47] This is a big loss for the Trump administration on the midterm ballot clash.
[03:45:52] I'm holding the ruling.
[03:45:54] We've just been going through it.
[03:45:55] I got guests standing by.
[03:45:56] So we're gonna get you what you need to know about this.
[03:45:58] I've got some other politics and midterm coverage coming later in the hour.
[03:46:02] But the top story right now is the breaking news.
[03:46:04] The federal judge here granting relief to the states that were fighting Trump.
[03:46:09] This is a win for the states and a loss for the Trump administration and its plot
[03:46:13] to try to use or abuse the mail system, the postal service to interfere with the midterms.
[03:46:19] There have been many developments in this case, the Supreme Court at one point weighed in,
[03:46:23] but this is the big new one because this is the direct court proceeding, the judge
[03:46:28] that was overseeing whether this Trump rule, this new rule they just hatched, could actually
[03:46:34] take effect.
[03:46:35] And late today, the judge says no, it can't.
[03:46:38] I wanna bring in our guests on this breaking news, New York Times Molly John Fass
[03:46:42] and Michelle Goldberg, a New York Times columnist, both analysts for us.
[03:46:46] Michelle, what I'm going to do because it's a breaking story is read a couple of the
[03:46:50] points here from the ruling and then get both of your reactions.
[03:46:54] I'll tell folks because again, we just got this moments ago.
[03:46:57] The judge says this will be an injunction.
[03:47:00] It prohibits the Postal Service quote from implementing mandatory sections of that final
[03:47:06] Trump rule, which was technically called the ballot mail for federal elections rule
[03:47:11] by the Trump administration.
[03:47:13] The court notes something that is basic.
[03:47:16] This is not complex law school stuff here, I'll just read it straight up, quote, Congress
[03:47:21] has always respected the Constitution's reservation of power to the states for elections.
[03:47:27] It explicitly permits the states and quote, not federal agencies to legislate on these
[03:47:34] matters.
[03:47:35] Michelle, this is pretty straightforward, it's a big loss for Trump, it reiterates
[03:47:39] what we already knew, which is that states and localities do elections in this country,
[03:47:44] not the president and certainly not the postal service.
[03:47:47] Right.
[03:47:48] I mean, as you said, this was something that we already knew.
[03:47:53] This was a sort of quite a shocking thing that Trump was trying to do, particularly
[03:47:58] because mail in ballots have already gone out, at least in North Carolina.
[03:48:03] They're about to go out in several other states.
[03:48:06] I mean, it's astonishing that we're already this close to the midterms, but this is, you
[03:48:11] know, it would have been absolute chaos if they tried to actually put this executive
[03:48:18] order into effect, although I am not sure, and like you said, this is a breaking story.
[03:48:25] I think that we will still need some assurance that the post-office, that the Trump laffees
[03:48:29] in the post-office are going to follow the law and ensure that the ballots are
[03:48:35] are delivered.
[03:48:36] Yeah, I think that's a great point.
[03:48:39] There's been a whistleblower complaint and reporting from the news section of your paper
[03:48:43] and other outlets about allegations that they were already efforts to sort of build this
[03:48:48] secret plot system in case they got cleared or illegally.
[03:48:53] And so we're talking about the whole enchilada, Molly.
[03:48:57] I want to read further into the ruling here.
[03:48:59] This is from page 45.
[03:49:00] Again, we just got this where the court says that implementing the final Trump rule quote
[03:49:07] less than 70 days before the election threatens disenfranchisement of millions of citizens
[03:49:13] who would vote by mail.
[03:49:15] Yeah.
[03:49:16] And Trump's like, yeah, no, that's the point.
[03:49:18] He's like, what do you mean?
[03:49:20] That's what we're trying to do.
[03:49:22] He's like, damn.
[03:49:24] I thought it'd be more people that were disenfranchising.
[03:49:27] Fuck.
[03:49:28] I'm not sure what that's what yeah, this is not the only thing before I continue with this video, but this is not the only thing that remains in the tool belt.
[03:49:46] They will also absolutely try to put ice at these stations, you know what I mean, like
[03:49:54] armed Gestapo in blue neighborhoods, in Hispanic neighborhoods, in neighborhoods where like
[03:50:02] black and brown voters are voting.
[03:50:05] I don't think we've seen the last of Trump's election molestation initiatives because he
[03:50:12] he knows what's fucking coming
[03:50:16] of when courts do what's called a balancing test or uh...
[03:50:19] hey how do how do we balance the issues
[03:50:22] uh... they're saying very much directly they're going to do clear-cut engine
[03:50:26] uh... electioneering
[03:50:28] which is illegal by the way they're going to try to do it for sure
[03:50:32] uh... we've gotten assurances from the military that the military won't
[03:50:35] be deployed
[03:50:37] but that's not enough
[03:50:39] because ice will probably be deployed
[03:50:42] ICE is the tool that the Trump administration uses most frequently for its own off-times
[03:50:48] cruel desires.
[03:50:50] Yeah, the military wouldn't do it, but I could totally see ICE doing it.
[03:50:55] But citing against Trump and with the states that this could disenfranchise millions.
[03:51:01] So obviously the rule falls.
[03:51:02] The rule is, according to the court, illegal and wrong, mauling.
[03:51:06] Yeah.
[03:51:07] Yeah, I mean, about a third of all Americans vote by mail, including Donald Trump.
[03:51:13] So the idea that it would disenfranchise 100 people right before an election, look, this
[03:51:18] was Trump's Hail Mary past, right?
[03:51:21] First he tried redistricting, then he tried, this is sort of him trying to make it harder
[03:51:25] to vote because he can see the polls.
[03:51:28] And so this may end up going back to Supreme Court, I think, but we, and Kataji Brown-Jackson
[03:51:35] wrote about this in her in her opinion where she said you know that this has
[03:51:40] become you know a wait what the fuck oh okay well I didn't even see this what is
[03:51:50] reported in the New York Times already scooped hundreds of federal agents from
[03:51:53] the Department of Homeland Security have been assigned on intensive weeks long
[03:51:56] hunt for non-citizens among the nation's registered voters despite an
[03:51:59] absence of evidence of widespread fraud according to the documents and
[03:52:02] training videos. In some cases, investigators are effectively posing as individual voters
[03:52:07] by plugging their names and personal information into public-facing websites run by top election
[03:52:12] officials in each state. Yeah. And for the record, the purpose of this is two-fold,
[03:52:22] right? Like, obviously, there isn't a significant number of like undocumented migrants in
[03:52:27] the voting roles, that's not a real problem.
[03:52:34] And even if there is some by accident that
[03:52:37] are like finding themselves on the voting roles,
[03:52:39] it's not something that they act on.
[03:52:44] This kind of stuff is always obviously determined.
[03:52:48] Before the election, after the election,
[03:52:50] there's numerous studies that have been conducted on it.
[03:52:52] It's not a real problem.
[03:52:53] Voter fraud is not a real problem.
[03:52:54] But the only thing that they will get out of this is if they find even 10 people, they'll
[03:53:03] be like, see, these are the 10 criminals!
[03:53:07] They were willing to overturn the results of an election!
[03:53:10] That's what they're trying to do.
[03:53:11] And I suspect they're not going to be able to find a good number of people regardless,
[03:53:15] but they'll still try to be on the lookout for when this investigation is concluded and
[03:53:20] they find like 100 people and they'll be like, this is it.
[03:53:23] hundred people in fifty different states
[03:53:26] okay and very clearly this was going to determine the outcome of the selection
[03:53:31] uh... and this is how the democrats are thank god we got them we got em boys
[03:53:35] mission on the night of january twenty that kind of shit legally will be
[03:53:39] twenty one day
[03:53:44] holy fuck forty two minutes long
[03:53:51] I think she said it was like, that they should have just turned it down right away.
[03:54:00] That they made it into a kind of nightmare of law, of going to judges and going to courts.
[03:54:08] When in fact, it's very clear that the state's administer elections.
[03:54:13] Right, and you're referring to the fact that the Supreme Court has been challenged
[03:54:19] by a lot of Trump tactics, ploys, DOJ deceit, things, Michelle, that were a problem in the
[03:54:26] first term, but didn't come this fast and furious, so to speak.
[03:54:32] And I'm curious, Bill, that on the point you raised earlier, Michelle, it's going to
[03:54:35] be incumbent on the states and society at large to hold the light on this and to enforce
[03:54:42] it, and to be ready if there are individuals inside the government who are trying to
[03:54:46] do a slow rolling sort of illegal coup, midterm meddling from inside the Postal Service or
[03:54:52] where else, that has to be pursued and of course, whether or not you have a fair election
[03:54:56] also goes to whether or not they'll be oversight after November because anyone inside the
[03:55:01] government within the sound of our voices or following the news and the law, they have
[03:55:06] an oath to uphold the Constitution if they violate it, believe it or not, they still
[03:55:10] can get in trouble.
[03:55:12] Michelle.
[03:55:13] Well, I mean, I think that the the good news besides that there are still courts that are independent and you know kind of committed to enforcing the law is that the Democrats, I think are trying to see every angle there.
[03:55:29] You know, I know that there have been war games where they try to game out every single thing that.
[03:55:36] By the way, this is Michelle Goldberg who recently wrote not one but two pieces one calling me to June and in the other one
[03:55:43] Calling for Abdul else. I had the more sufficiently punish me for our past affiliation
[03:55:49] saying that
[03:55:52] Saying that I'm a toxic individual that needs to get the sister soldier moment slash
[03:55:59] Jeremiah right moment
[03:56:06] Trump and his allies and his minions could do to disrupt the vote.
[03:56:11] And when I've spoken to Norm Eisen, who I'm sure you've spoken to as well, he says that
[03:56:16] he feels pretty confident that they are not going to be, that they're gonna try to throw
[03:56:22] everything they can at this election, but ultimately they're not gonna be successful.
[03:56:26] Yeah, describing this as sort of a Hail Mary, Molly, the sitting president supported a violent
[03:56:36] insurrection and freed and helped people who attacked violently police and federal officials.
[03:56:43] So that's where he stands.
[03:56:45] We know that.
[03:56:46] Whether everyone else, whether that is the powers that be in Congress, the courts
[03:56:50] we've just mentioned, which of course today are dealing Trump this loss, for viewers who
[03:56:54] You might be joining us a couple of minutes in the broadcast, the breaking news, is Trump
[03:56:58] losing that big midterm ballot case.
[03:57:01] But Molly, we had a guest on this week, Ty Cobb, who served in the Trump White House
[03:57:07] has become a real critic.
[03:57:09] But he warned, there might be pressure by Trump on Mike Johnson to say, well, can you
[03:57:13] play gimmicks and not see newly elected officials, right?
[03:57:18] All of that stuff eventually gets back to the Hail Mary of Trump demanding things,
[03:57:23] Because he didn't lead up to Jan 6th, and what does everyone else do?
[03:57:26] Yeah, I mean, I think there's a real likelihood that he tries that.
[03:57:31] And again, what has been good about this moment, and I've also talked to a ton of different
[03:57:37] nonpartisan organizations, have been ready to bring things back to the court immediately.
[03:57:53] That kind of argument doesn't mean that damage to election integrity isn't happening.
[03:57:57] It also tassily implies Dems aren't actually doing anything.
[03:57:59] Goldberg didn't say anything is actually being done.
[03:58:01] It's more that on the sidelines to say affordability every once in a while as the country cooks
[03:58:05] itself.
[03:58:06] I don't even know what the Democrats could do to protect elections for the record.
[03:58:10] I don't know.
[03:58:12] I have no idea what they could be doing.
[03:58:15] I wish that there was a little bit more leadership from the Democrats.
[03:58:17] I'm sure they would know.
[03:58:19] Or they should fucking know what to do in this moment.
[03:58:23] I would like to see I would like to see some leadership. It would be nice
[03:58:32] Oh
[03:58:33] War efforts going well moment New York Times US government investigators have taken extraordinary step of subjecting roughly 50 members of the US military
[03:58:39] Joint Staff the polygraph tests over lease the journalists including about how the Iran War has created a shortage of
[03:58:47] Crucial munitions. Hell. Yeah, dude. Yeah fire those guys. It's definitely gonna be
[03:58:51] This is how we do it. This is how we win, okay?
[03:58:55] Anyway, let's talk about Lindsay Clancy.
[03:58:57] There's a seven-minute video from this lawyer who explains the situation and then we'll move on.
[03:59:01] Difference between one juror genuinely disagreeing with the other 11 and that juror saying,
[03:59:07] Oh, there's reasonable doubt, but I don't care. I'm not going to follow the law.
[03:59:11] Being the lone holdout isn't the problem.
[03:59:13] Refusing to follow the law is.
[03:59:15] So those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, this is what happens during jury deliberations in the Lindsay Clancy trial.
[03:59:20] The fact that this is one of the worst prosecutorials showing as I've seen in a hot minute in a high-profile case
[03:59:25] Their entire narrative they wanted the jury to believe beyond a reasonable doubt was non-sensical
[03:59:29] But even if these prosecutors had put on a halfway decent performance as lawyers
[03:59:32] This case is rife with facts that force reasonable doubt to every facet of this case for a first degree murder charge
[03:59:39] Oh my god, Chatters were waiting to write their long paragraphs. I'm sorry
[03:59:42] But if she was black she wouldn't be getting this much benefit of that
[03:59:44] I just don't believe she's in psychosis
[03:59:45] None of her psychiatrists believe she was as soon as she's heard voices one time
[03:59:48] she immediately listened to them and killed her kids, unlike the others, went through psychosis
[03:59:52] and continuously denied. So there's like multiple different schools of thought on the Lindsay
[03:59:57] Clancy trial. Obviously, I'm not going to go over the gruesome details, but it was
[04:00:02] heinous murder of her three children. She's admitted to it, right? And her defense attorneys,
[04:00:12] her defense attorney's goal here was to basically get this outcome, right? Potentially,
[04:00:16] This is the best outcome from their perspective, obviously.
[04:00:21] They were trying, the prosecutors were trying to disparage the defense that she engaged in an act of gruesome murder and then also tried to self harm in the process afterwards as well due to postpartum psychosis.
[04:00:42] Postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis is a real issue.
[04:00:46] You know, in the aftermath of complicated pregnancy,
[04:00:51] women sometimes can go through this process.
[04:00:54] Difficult to identify, difficult to deal with, right?
[04:01:01] So it's a severely stressful and terrifying situation
[04:01:09] to be in. One school of thought believes that she wasn't going through postpartum psychosis
[04:01:16] and that she just deliberately decided to kill her children out of the blue. The other school
[04:01:24] of thought is that she was actually engaging in this gruesome act of violence, gruesome
[04:01:30] act of murder due to postpartum psychosis. And then there's a third school of thought
[04:01:36] which is the cool zone
[04:01:39] which believes that it wasn't her at all and that the husband
[04:01:43] actually framed her for the murder
[04:01:48] i'm not entirely certain as to how people uh... ran with that i i if you
[04:01:53] recall we briefly looked at it off your and when qt cinderella introduced the
[04:01:57] story
[04:02:00] and i was also uh... i was also entertaining
[04:02:03] uh... this this uh... third option
[04:02:06] because it's, you know, because I, you know, I just like to let QT say whatever she's saying.
[04:02:14] She of course doesn't believe this anymore. I'm just saying that initially we looked into
[04:02:17] it, right? And, and I'm not exactly certain because that's not the defense. That wasn't
[04:02:25] the defense at all. So I don't even know how people on the internet came up with
[04:02:31] that third strategy, but it's seemingly become the most popular strategy online.
[04:02:38] That was in the Patreon, makes your case for getting subscriber, yes.
[04:02:45] And yeah, that's a theory that people are going with.
[04:02:51] Now I do think it's weird that he walked out with an iPad.
[04:02:55] I thought that that was strange, but I jokingly said that's sociopathic
[04:03:00] behavior, put him under the jail as a joke, just so you understand it. But it seems that
[04:03:12] it seems that this was a mis-trial because after six days of deliberation, I believe six
[04:03:16] days of intense deliberation, the jury, the 12 peers of Lindsay Clancy could not determine
[04:03:23] the honor reasonable doubt that she had not experienced postpartum psychosis in the process.
[04:03:40] But that's neither here nor there. The more pressing issue right now is when a juror simply
[04:03:45] doesn't follow the law. Drury began deliberating last Thursday. At this point when I posted this
[04:03:49] They've been deliberating for about 38 hours, I believe, ish give or take 36 to 38 they liberated Thursday
[04:03:55] You misspoke defense didn't want to mistrial as they were winning so hard defense had 11 jurors on their side and the 12th admitted reasonable doubt
[04:04:01] But wouldn't join the majority
[04:04:06] Just for what it's worth I don't believe her personally, but she could also be found not guilty
[04:04:10] It was one of the three possibilities the judge said
[04:04:19] I haven't kept that with the case, but all my coworkers believe the husband killed them
[04:04:30] story.
[04:04:31] I, okay, so here's the problem that I have with this theory.
[04:04:39] I don't think that the cops would not investigate that at all, right, especially given all the
[04:04:48] of strangeness around Lindsay Clancy's body being so cold
[04:04:54] and all this other information.
[04:04:57] Like I know that the argument is,
[04:04:58] oh, it's because they didn't do it
[04:05:00] because they're misogynistic
[04:05:01] and they didn't even think about it at all.
[04:05:09] I know the cops are not very good at their jobs,
[04:05:12] but like it's a,
[04:05:15] The husband did a theories very America be coded.
[04:05:25] I think it's partially because the husband got remarried right so soon after the incident.
[04:05:32] And also because he was walking to CVS by foot with an iPad but again it's not what
[04:05:41] the defense was presenting as a counter narrative as an argument and it's not what the pro like
[04:05:47] no one was presenting this as an option it's entirely concocted by the internet do you see
[04:05:54] what I'm saying like Lindsay Clancy says she did it the defense is is operating on the
[04:06:00] understanding that she did it and their line of defense is postpartum psychosis like
[04:06:05] that's what's so confusing to me about this process because it's like no one actually
[04:06:10] involved with this case is saying the husband did it. The judge doesn't believe the husband
[04:06:16] did it. The cops don't believe the husband did it. Lindsey Clancy doesn't believe the
[04:06:20] husband did it. Lindsey Clancy's attorneys don't believe the husband did it. It's just people
[04:06:25] on the internet who are like, no, we've taken this up ourselves. Actually, it's the husband.
[04:06:30] And that, that to me is like, strange, but I don't, I don't understand it. I don't
[04:06:36] They were deadlocked and unable to reach a unanimous verdict the judge then as required by law
[04:06:41] Encourage them to keep deliberating. They said okay and went back in then they came back again on Wednesday and said we are unable to reach
[04:06:48] Enum's verdict. We are deadlocked after the second time the jury comes back and says they can't reach a verdict
[04:06:52] The judge is required to read them what is called a two-way instruction or a dynamite charge
[04:06:57] It alerts the jury to among other things a serious
[04:06:59] You know what fucking list are here and it's about the Lindsey Clancy case if you like my work, please subscribe
[04:07:06] Starting here, we can see how the Clancy's house looked in 2022 when a crime occurred.
[04:07:11] Well, we have to leave in five minutes. Fuck, okay.
[04:07:13] The address was 47 Summer Street, Dukesbury, Massachusetts. And this is the home of Patrick and Lindsay Clancy.
[04:07:20] In this picture here, you can see how the house looked in 2022. We can also see how Patrick parked.
[04:07:27] What?
[04:07:30] I have wait hold on she did not say she did it neither did her attorney nor the judge that is misinformation going around dog
[04:07:37] What the fuck are you talking about? They were running on postpartum?
[04:07:42] psychosis
[04:07:43] Okay postpartum psychosis means that the implication
[04:07:49] Using the postpartum psychosis defense is that she did it but she was not of the right like she was basically
[04:07:57] basically not of sound mind.
[04:08:03] Like what do you think postpartum psychosis is?
[04:08:06] That's what the defense is running on.
[04:08:10] Yes.
[04:08:13] Yes, she did it, but she's not like she didn't do it deliberately.
[04:08:21] parked next to Lindsay's car that night after returning from the 3D restaurant.
[04:08:28] When he pulls out of his driveway, he's unaware of what tragedy has happened to his
[04:08:32] family while he's gone picking up food and medicine.
[04:08:36] As we circle around, you can see here in this illustration that Lindsay is laying
[04:08:40] semi-unconscious on the ground in the back of the yard after her fall.
[04:08:44] You can also see the gate at this end of the house, where later's
[04:08:46] paramedics will come through to help Lindsay.
[04:08:48] After parking his truck, Patrick enters the kitchen through the front door next to the garage.
[04:08:55] When he enters, he justifies he knows that the house was very quiet, which is unusual.
[04:09:02] He continues and sets the food and medicine from CVS on the kitchen island.
[04:09:07] Here's an evidence photo of this.
[04:09:10] Here's another picture from a different angle.
[04:09:13] Where's the iPad?
[04:09:14] Motherfucker, where's the iPad?
[04:09:16] I can switch on a dime.
[04:09:17] Continuing after taking off his boots, he begins to call out to anyone in the house, but no one answers.
[04:09:25] He then goes to the basement door to check if they're downstairs and calls out.
[04:09:29] But again, no one answers.
[04:09:33] Here's an evidence photo of the basement stairs.
[04:09:41] Patrick continues on and goes upstairs to the second floor.
[04:09:56] When he gets there, he can see no one in the bathroom, and so he checks the two kids'
[04:10:00] room.
[04:10:01] But no one is there.
[04:10:07] He turns to go to the master bedroom.
[04:10:10] He tries the door, but it's locked, and for the first time he feels like something is
[04:10:14] seriously wrong.
[04:10:16] After getting the key from one of the kids' room, he unlocks the door and goes in.
[04:10:22] After taking one or two steps into the room, he can see blood on the floor everywhere.
[04:10:28] He also notices the bed pushed away from the wall and that the window is open.
[04:10:33] Here's some evidence photos of the room that night.
[04:10:36] Oh god. Oh god. Oh fuck. Oh shit. I'm not going to show you.
[04:10:48] Realizing the severity of the situation, Patrick quickly goes downstairs to the backyard.
[04:11:01] He cuts through the kitchen to go to the back sliding door.
[04:11:06] When he gets outside, he starts looking over towards the bedroom window and sees Lindsay
[04:11:10] laying on the ground and rushes over to her.
[04:11:12] They're not going to show it, right?
[04:11:14] In court, Patrick will tell what happens next.
[04:11:15] Did you say anything to Lindsay when you found her in that state?
[04:11:19] Yeah, I said, what happened?
[04:11:20] And what was her response?
[04:11:21] She said, I tried to kill myself.
[04:11:24] Did you ask her anything else?
[04:11:27] I said, where are the kids?
[04:11:30] And what was her response?
[04:11:31] She said, they're in the basement.
[04:11:34] It's likely when Lindsay said that the kids were in the basement, Patrick thought that
[04:11:37] they were fine, and that she may have put them in the basement so they wouldn't see her,
[04:11:41] which would explain why he stayed with her while he called 911 and waited for the first
[04:11:44] responders to arrive.
[04:11:46] Patrick placed a 911 call at 6.11 pm, and it took three to four minutes for responders
[04:11:50] to arrive.
[04:11:52] When they get there, he calls for them to come around the house to the side gate.
[04:11:55] After a brief interaction, he quickly runs to the basement to check on the kids.
[04:12:00] He makes his way back to the patio door and goes to the kitchen for the basement.
[04:12:07] When getting to the bottom of the stairs, he goes left to the basement living room.
[04:12:13] After just a few steps into the room, he sees Korra and Colin laying on the floor and goes
[04:12:16] to them.
[04:12:20] To see how the basement was light out, we're going to look from the front of the
[04:12:23] house and see through to the basement.
[04:12:27] After trying to help Cora and Colin, he started to look for his other child Dawson, so he quickly
[04:12:31] urges over to his office area on the other side of the basement.
[04:12:36] There he sees Dawson laying on the floor.
[04:12:37] He begins screaming for help.
[04:12:39] The EMT outside who are working on Lindsay hears the screams and notices the scene through
[04:12:43] the basement window.
[04:12:45] Immediately, many responders begin running into the basement to help the children.
[04:12:52] Here are some evidence photos of the basement.
[04:12:54] Oh, it's...
[04:12:59] It's answered.
[04:13:08] There is a 911 audio recording of this moment when Patrick discovers his kids in the basement.
[04:13:12] It was played in court, but was not released to the public, but by all accounts it is worth finding here.
[04:13:16] In this last illustration, we are going to show how Lindsay fell out of the bedroom window.
[04:13:20] We will start with some evidence photos of the back of the house.
[04:13:25] In this photo, you can see the top right hand window, which is Lindsay's bedroom.
[04:13:29] The area circle is where there is blood on the shingles off the side of the house.
[04:13:34] Here's that area blown up.
[04:13:35] Notice these four yellow circles.
[04:13:38] This indicates where blood was transferred to the side of the shingles,
[04:13:40] and we get this information from the court documents.
[04:13:45] Back to this image.
[04:13:47] Notice how the blood transfers.
[04:13:48] he stopped watching this really goes for your six rukhamsa
[04:13:51] you what are you talking about it is literally the most impactful story that
[04:13:54] everyone in the united states of america is talking about it's like at some
[04:13:57] point we have to cover it okay
[04:14:00] especially considering that there's been a mistrial
[04:14:03] it's it's uh... important that we cover otherwise all going to be like
[04:14:06] fucking randos
[04:14:08] with insane points of view
[04:14:10] that are running amok all over the internet up and down the internet
[04:14:13] like
[04:14:18] find it very strange this attitude that people have towards me covering like
[04:14:22] gruesome crimes and stuff like like what do you think is the reason for it we
[04:14:27] cover it because if we don't fucking cover it then the conversation is
[04:14:31] dominated by fucking crazies and kooks in any case I'm gonna wait are you
[04:14:36] taking the camera all right hold on oh the laptop camera is not working
[04:14:43] again. Nope, it's working now. All right, you can take it.
[04:14:53] Dan's on the sighting run vertically up to the hand prints on
[04:14:56] the windowsill. This and the fact that Lindsay had a Jefferson
[04:14:58] fracture of her C1 vertebrae helps us know how she fell out
[04:15:01] of the window. And here's that illustration. You can see how
[04:15:06] her hand transfers blood stains to the house as she falls to
[04:15:08] the ground.
[04:15:43] The central question for jurors is if she was legally responsible at the time.
[04:15:47] This trial has gone global.
[04:15:49] I think you guys are judging the wrong person.
[04:15:51] She was aware that that was wrong, or against the law, and that she could be punished.
[04:15:56] She loved her children, all of them, very, very much.
[04:16:04] Is Lindsay Clancy criminally responsible for the deaths of her three young children?
[04:16:10] That's the question facing a jury in Massachusetts as the trial of the former nurse accused of
[04:16:15] strangling her children in January 2023 is underway. Lindsay Clancy doesn't dispute carrying out the
[04:16:21] killings of five-year-old Cora, three-year-old Doulson and eight-month-old Cannes before she
[04:16:27] jumped out of a second window floor. Prosecutors say she hated deliberately, but she's pleaded
[04:16:33] not guilty to murder charges. Her defence team argues that she was suffering from a
[04:16:37] a severe postpartum mental illness, including psychosis,
[04:16:41] and was unable to understand the consequences of her actions.
[04:16:45] Our reporter Anna Fagy is following the trial.
[04:16:48] What happened on that January 2023 day
[04:16:50] was Lindsay Clancy's husband went to go run a few errands.
[04:16:54] He left her at home alone with the children,
[04:16:57] and that's when she killed the three of them
[04:16:58] and attempted to kill herself.
[04:17:01] The prosecution alleges that she made a calculated decision
[04:17:04] to intentionally kill her three children.
[04:17:06] They say she knew what she was doing,
[04:17:08] and they're arguing against the postpartum psychosis
[04:17:11] explanation that the defense has offered.
[04:17:13] What they need to prove is that she was criminally responsible
[04:17:17] and should be found guilty of those three first degree
[04:17:19] murder charges that she faces.
[04:17:22] Lindsay Clancy is not expected to take the stand
[04:17:24] during the trial, but her defense team
[04:17:26] has argued that she was not criminally responsible
[04:17:28] for her actions.
[04:17:29] Here's Anna again with a closer look at the defense case.
[04:17:33] The argument defending Lindsay Clancy
[04:17:35] centers around her diagnosis of postpartum psychosis. Her lawyers are saying that she
[04:17:40] wasn't in her right mind when she killed her three children. Throughout the trial, we've
[04:17:45] heard from a number of family members of Lindsey Clancy's, including her mother and
[04:17:50] her mother-in-law, and they brought forward some of the most emotional testimony talking
[04:17:54] about how she was feeling at the time, how she wasn't really herself, how she
[04:17:58] was, as they say, begging for help.
[04:18:01] The beginning of December.
[04:18:02] I'm going to continue my commentary on this and continue to watch the videos on this.
[04:18:07] But for now, we are heading over while this goes on, we're heading over to the conference
[04:18:11] hall.
[04:18:13] Very much decompensated.
[04:18:15] I do remember her saying at one point at the beginning of December, something along
[04:18:20] lines, I'm in a really tough spot.
[04:18:22] And knowing what she had shared with me previously about how her mental health had been struggling.
[04:18:28] I had this gut feeling that something was off
[04:18:30] and that she was really struggling
[04:18:32] and I asked her if she was safe.
[04:18:34] What did she say?
[04:18:35] She said yes at that point.
[04:18:37] Lindsay was a very loving mother.
[04:18:40] She was dedicated to her children.
[04:18:43] She was a fun mother.
[04:18:45] She was always doing things for her kids.
[04:18:49] She always wanted to be a mother, have many children,
[04:18:53] And I felt it was the best thing that ever happened to her.
[04:18:58] And she would do anything for her children.
[04:19:01] She was just a loving mother.
[04:19:04] Very early on in the trial, we heard directly
[04:19:06] from Patrick Clancy, Lindsey Clancy's husband.
[04:19:10] They've since divorced.
[04:19:11] But he took to the stand and he basically
[04:19:14] said that the person who killed his children
[04:19:17] was not who he knew his wife to be.
[04:19:19] She started to lose a lot of weight.
[04:19:21] And she became very depressed and she's had a really hard time.
[04:19:28] And did she describe to you some thoughts or feelings that she was having at that time?
[04:19:36] Yeah, she started to say she was suicidal.
[04:19:40] Well, as we've just heard, a key element of the trial is the concept of postpartum psychosis.
[04:19:45] But what is it exactly?
[04:19:47] is Deborah Becker, host at WBUR.
[04:19:49] The national public really is affiliate in Boston,
[04:19:52] who's also been following the trial.
[04:19:54] It's one of the disorders that new mothers
[04:19:58] can experience in the months after giving birth.
[04:20:02] And it's described as having symptoms
[04:20:05] that can be misdiagnosed quite easily,
[04:20:08] irritability, anxiety, insomnia,
[04:20:12] things that might happen to a sleep-deprived person
[04:20:15] who is taking care of a new infant.
[04:20:18] And so I think it hasn't been getting the attention
[04:20:23] that it probably should be getting
[04:20:25] because it happens in about one to two of every 1,000 births.
[04:20:30] And what happens in that case is someone becomes detached
[04:20:34] from reality and can start being very delusional
[04:20:39] and having very extreme symptoms
[04:20:41] and it can be a dangerous disorder.
[04:20:43] But what most experts say is, it's temporary and it's treatable if it's diagnosed properly,
[04:20:50] and of course the defense and Lindsay Clancy's case is arguing that this is what she experienced
[04:20:55] that led her to kill her children.
[04:20:57] Well, let's hear now from a woman who's spoken about her own struggle with post-plotum
[04:21:01] psychosis.
[04:21:02] Haley Ashcom has been sharing her experience with Chanel Call of CBS News.
[04:21:07] Good job!
[04:21:09] Hailey Ashcom dreamed of having a big family.
[04:21:14] I had always wanted to be a mom.
[04:21:15] But in 2020, after giving birth to her first son, Cain, that dream turned into a nightmare.
[04:21:21] It first presented kind of as insomnia, difficulty sleeping, a lot of anxieties, but they continued
[04:21:29] to escalate.
[04:21:30] What I believe were intrusive thoughts ended up turning into voices.
[04:21:35] Ashcombe says she was diagnosed with postpartum depression and prescribed Zoloft.
[04:21:40] The same anti-anxiety medication Lindsey Clancy was first prescribed, but those voices Ashcombe
[04:21:46] says got louder and turned violent.
[04:21:49] I've never in my life gone through a period where I thought it would be better not to
[04:21:53] be alive and all of a sudden it became the only option.
[04:21:58] Ashcombe says she went straight to a hospital and like Clancy was prescribed a second
[04:22:03] anti-anxiety med.
[04:22:05] Did those voices go away?
[04:22:07] Unfortunately, they just continued to get worse.
[04:22:10] Ultimately, she checked herself into a psychiatric hospital,
[04:22:14] where she says she was diagnosed with postpartum psychosis.
[04:22:18] How much did you know about postpartum psychosis?
[04:22:23] Nothing.
[04:22:23] I was so taken aback and thought that I was such a monster.
[04:22:27] This feels like a watershed moment.
[04:22:30] Dr. Catherine Berndorf treats women with this illness.
[04:22:33] Is this being under diagnosed?
[04:22:35] I fear that it is.
[04:22:36] She says postpartum psychosis isn't listed
[04:22:40] in the standard handbook used by American mental health
[04:22:42] experts, which means many doctors often
[04:22:45] don't know what to look for.
[04:22:47] Are women falling through the cracks here?
[04:22:49] Yeah, they are.
[04:22:50] It's a very lethal and dangerous illness
[04:22:53] that when left untreated has tragic outcomes.
[04:22:58] Ashcom is thankful she got the treatment she needed in time
[04:23:02] and went on to have three more children, without experiencing psychosis, again, Chanel
[04:23:08] Call CBS News.
[04:23:10] Well back to the trial now because the court proceedings have been streamed by millions
[04:23:13] of people online and have sparked intense debate.
[04:23:17] I think you guys are judging the wrong person.
[04:23:20] Social media has been flooded with commentary, claims about perceived inconsistencies in
[04:23:24] the evidence and a range of conspiracy theories.
[04:23:27] While social media investigations corresponded,
[04:23:29] Marianna Spring has been looking into them.
[04:23:33] This case has absolutely taken over social media feeds.
[04:23:36] And what started is often legitimate concerns and questions
[04:23:39] that people had about the trial,
[04:23:40] people expressing support for Linty Clancy
[04:23:42] or concerns around the way that women are treated
[04:23:44] when they've had kids
[04:23:45] and are possibly experiencing mental health difficulties.
[04:23:48] It has now snowballed into a whole range
[04:23:50] of unfounded conspiracy theories
[04:23:52] and at times quite harmful misinformation.
[04:23:54] Loads of other people related to the case
[04:23:56] are being targeted.
[04:23:57] The ex-husband of Vinci Kanci has found himself one of the main focuses of a lot of the speculation
[04:24:03] and then misinformation online. Again, a part, you know, different from ballet concerns that
[04:24:07] people have. And a lot of the people getting involved in this are what we might call sleeds,
[04:24:10] TikTok sleeds. People who pour over the case, they're watching the...
[04:24:20] Okay, we're here. I hope everyone's being normal and not insane.
[04:24:27] We're back.
[04:24:29] This is somewhat dark.
[04:24:31] You want to turn on your light back there as well?
[04:24:34] Maybe that'll be helpful, but I don't know.
[04:24:48] What is this?
[04:24:51] Please put it in E-mode only.
[04:24:57] You should really watch Caroline's coverage.
[04:25:00] How am I supposed to do that right now, man?
[04:25:01] We're in the fucking car.
[04:25:03] Like, it's just...
[04:25:07] It is kind of remarkable that we talk about such complex issues.
[04:25:13] Geopolitical events.
[04:25:15] We cover genocide.
[04:25:18] We cover death and destruction all around the world.
[04:25:21] Every single day, day in and day out.
[04:25:24] And then this lazy, clancy story breaks the fucking community.
[04:25:34] Just breaks it.
[04:25:36] Breaks it to such a degree that there are people in here that are like, let me tell
[04:25:41] you exactly how you should go about doing this.
[04:25:45] I got this.
[04:25:47] You, streamer, you don't fucking know how to talk about stuff like this.
[04:25:52] the community doesn't know how to handle stuff like this. Let me give it to you. Let me give it to you straight.
[04:26:02] And I know age-wise you should not be acting like babies at all, considering that more than 50%
[04:26:10] of this community is now firmly over the age of 30. So it's alarming that this is the type
[04:26:19] of behavior that we get. I will tell you in moments like this in stories like this
[04:26:32] there are a lot of like from when there's a additional attention from the outside
[04:26:38] in high-profile court cases like this there are always going to be issues with
[04:26:46] the investigation. There are going to be issues with the way that the defense
[04:26:51] attorney or the prosecutors operate and given whatever biases that people may be
[04:26:59] operating off of, they will read into it way too much, like way more than they
[04:27:07] would. And then the conversation, which I don't believe is a sigh out
[04:27:14] necessarily, but not now.
[04:27:20] What you're hearing are the glorious sounds of rail above us.
[04:27:29] What you're going to see on my tie and also on my little pin here.
[04:27:40] In any case, I think that the feeding frenzy around this story has also been fascinating to watch unfold.
[04:27:48] I've been somewhat paying attention to it, but I don't necessarily understand how this...
[04:28:04] Like I kind of understand why people would
[04:28:07] would
[04:28:09] fail to to comprehend what it's like, you know to to have postpartum depression postpartum psychosis
[04:28:17] I feel like these are
[04:28:20] This is an unfortunate byproduct of our medical system
[04:28:26] Being somewhat patriarchal not somewhat, but just like it's a byproduct of existing in a patriarchal system
[04:28:31] where the average person looks at such a heinous crime
[04:28:36] and doesn't understand that like this is not human.
[04:28:39] Right? It's the least.
[04:28:44] It's the most anti-human thing of all time.
[04:28:46] A mother killing their own children.
[04:28:51] And yet it happens. People diagnose it.
[04:28:54] It can happen in any pregnancy. And there's a diagnosis
[04:29:00] And then there's treatment for it.
[04:29:03] So there are numerous instances where the system failed.
[04:29:06] It's very clear.
[04:29:08] But I'm not of the mindset that the husband set this up
[04:29:13] and murdered his children and then
[04:29:17] tried to kill Lindsay Clancy, but then failed to do so.
[04:29:24] Or rather, thought that even if she didn't die,
[04:29:28] that he would be able to pin the blame on her
[04:29:33] and then, you know, live the rest of his life.
[04:29:41] I think that Lindsey Clancy was failed by the medical system.
[04:29:45] Although she did get treatment, it clearly didn't work.
[04:29:52] And I assume that if judging by the defense,
[04:29:58] I assume that the moment that she started hearing voices, she probably should have been sent to the hospital, under psychiatric evaluation.
[04:30:16] But I also don't agree with the people who operate under the notion that, like, she just did it without any sort of...
[04:30:28] medical condition because there's the other side of the story where people are
[04:30:33] like this is the most gruesome most heinous crime that one can commit because
[04:30:38] it's true it is it is right and the question is whether or not she did it
[04:30:45] the question is more so whether she did it deliberately or did it as a
[04:30:55] consequence of postpartum psychosis. And I think that the defense had a decent amount
[04:31:06] of evidence to show that postpartum psychosis probably played a role in this because I also
[04:31:13] can't understand why anyone would assume that she just, take the side of the prosecutors
[04:31:19] basically and assume that she just did this not for the sake of cruelty
[04:31:32] CNN audio wait what happened oh did you something went I guess I don't know it's
[04:31:38] fine
[04:31:49] Just popped, mic popped for a second.
[04:31:58] There were some clicks and hisses, the usual.
[04:32:01] Interesting.
[04:32:02] Okay.
[04:32:03] Yes, but psychosis or not, it's still guilty of murder, question mark?
[04:32:14] Yes.
[04:32:15] Well, yes and no.
[04:32:18] It's uh, it's like an insanity plea which by the way is not exactly getting away
[04:32:24] With murder in the way that some people are presenting it first of all I
[04:32:28] Mean it's over her life is over regardless. She tried to take her own life
[04:32:34] And not only that but she will forever
[04:32:40] Live with that guilt for the rest of her life she's paralyzed from not the neck down but from the waist down right
[04:32:46] She's paralyzed
[04:32:48] And also on top of that an insanity plea means you're not going to prison, but you're going to a
[04:32:57] Usually a permanently going to a a
[04:33:01] A facility like a psychiatric psychiatric facility
[04:33:06] So it's not exactly roses for the people that think that like the insanity plea is just like
[04:33:13] like, is some kind of like ticket free. I don't know why people think that. Especially considering
[04:33:22] that people that successfully get the insanity plea are often times institutionalized for
[04:33:31] or even longer sentences than the actual murder sentence
[04:33:35] would carry.
[04:33:39] Yeah.
[04:33:42] So,
[04:33:45] it's not permanent.
[04:33:46] You reassess every few years as short as every six months.
[04:33:49] Yes, but
[04:33:53] if you're actually,
[04:33:55] if you actually are pleading insane,
[04:33:58] You're not going to be successfully rehabilitated.
[04:34:17] Not when you've killed, according to the state.
[04:34:22] of your kids. One of the one of the lesser known aspects of the insanity please
[04:34:32] also a psychopath like psychopathy evaluation implies that you're
[04:34:40] probably there permanently. It's very difficult because medical specialists
[04:34:45] worry that people who are designated not saying Lindsay would be and I'm not
[04:34:51] saying I think that that's the evaluation. I don't know, but medical specialists oftentimes
[04:34:57] have a hard time evaluating whether or not someone who's been designated as psychopath is
[04:35:06] simply claiming that they've been rehabilitated in an effort to gain early release or if
[04:35:11] they're lying, it's like a very tricky subject.
[04:35:21] Psychosis and psychopathy are different?
[04:35:30] No, I know.
[04:35:40] But in any case, I was just giving you guys a broader statement on the insanity plea.
[04:35:49] But yeah, I feel as though everyone that's tackled the subject matter has in some way
[04:36:08] my share pro form, um, done a, not a poor job necessarily, but has, has, um, leaned into
[04:36:18] one, one opinion over the other, just repeated over and over again that the jury is a legal
[04:36:36] obligations and not vote guilty if there's any reasonable doubt. So many people think mistakenly
[04:36:40] it's just guilty because she's evil versus guilty due to insanity. It's not.
[04:36:52] But yeah, I disagree with the people who say that the husband did it beyond like
[04:36:59] the husband being negligent potentially because I don't know the extent of their
[04:37:03] relationship I don't know the details there could have been negligence as far
[04:37:07] as I don't know like I said one way or another I don't know I'm saying I don't
[04:37:11] know but I disagree with people to say like the husband planned it and did it
[04:37:15] at least with all the evidence that I've seen I also disagree with the
[04:37:19] people who say that this was not postpartum psychosis but that she was
[04:37:25] just like like even the people who say it what it's not postpartum psychosis
[04:37:30] say that she was crazy because it's just ultimately a crazy thing to do to murder
[04:37:36] three of your kids like so I don't understand what like that attitude is
[04:37:41] but I guess it's just like vengeance seeking in some respects where it's like
[04:37:46] if she goes to prison for murder then justice will be served but if she goes
[04:37:50] to a facility for probably the rest of her life, as the guilt, as the weight of this horrifying
[04:38:03] crime will carry with her for the rest of her life, at least until she possibly attempts
[04:38:09] to take her life once again, as she did on the night of, as though that she is not in
[04:38:15] permanent state in a permanent prison no matter what happens I don't I don't
[04:38:22] really understand that mentality
[04:38:35] yeah woman who women who present postpartum psychosis receiving very
[04:38:39] little empathy yes she killed her kids but the prosecution is claiming that
[04:38:42] was a methodical and planned out and they were unable to prove that she's
[04:38:44] guilty of criminal intent.
[04:38:51] I'm
[04:39:13] problem with this case is that black women don't get this benefit.
[04:39:19] I don't disagree with you, but I don't know how it's relevant to the current analysis of the case.
[04:39:32] I mean, you're not wrong, yes.
[04:39:34] Why people, by and large, don't get the same benefit that white people do, I know.
[04:39:39] And it's, you know, non-white people don't get that same benefit usually.
[04:39:45] the defense is not running on yes she did it but wait what
[04:40:15] I don't understand why people say that.
[04:40:21] That is what the defense is doing.
[04:40:23] The defense is not saying that the children were murdered by some random force.
[04:40:30] The defense is not saying it was a ghost that did it.
[04:40:33] The defense is not saying it was a husband that potentially did it.
[04:40:36] The defense, as far as I understand, is always going to attempt to cast reasonable
[04:40:41] doubt.
[04:40:42] Right?
[04:40:43] That's the job of the defense.
[04:40:44] So they'll take multiple angles of attack to tarnish the credibility of witnesses, tarnish
[04:40:51] credibility of even the husband to a certain degree, if that's what they choose to do.
[04:40:56] But ultimately the defense's argument, the main argument is that this was the case of
[04:41:05] postpartum psychosis, whereas the prosecution's job was to make it seem as though it wasn't
[04:41:12] postpartum psychosis that it was premeditated murder that she like set it up
[04:41:16] designed this this entire ordeal to I guess murder her children and then make
[04:41:24] it seem like she went crazy over in the aftermath with this she had mental
[04:41:30] In the moment and also pre-planned it
[04:41:42] Did anyone see that the jurors might have hung the jury for a calci bet stop chatter no, I don't
[04:42:00] of
[04:42:28] We will never have another moment of sanity and consensus reality for the rest of our lives.
[04:42:36] That's how I feel.
[04:42:37] I think going forward, way too dank, it's clicking again, something's popping.
[04:42:46] Maybe it's like every bump.
[04:42:48] Let me re-seal these XLR ports for that mode.
[04:43:06] Oh yeah, around the corner instead.
[04:43:09] Yeah. Thank you.
[04:43:14] RIP headphone users, we profit.
[04:43:18] killed my ears
[04:43:30] thank you sir
[04:43:32] make it stop, CNN audio, it's fucking up
[04:43:48] I
[04:44:18] Oh
[04:44:36] Is it not oh
[04:44:48] There's no internet in one of my phones so I can't even check.
[04:44:55] It's great.
[04:45:18] It's not letting me join high-eat event. I don't know why. It's a proper code. Wait,
[04:45:46] You have the card right?
[04:45:48] For the room, okay.
[04:45:50] Don't show which room we're going into.
[04:45:54] Oh man.
[04:45:56] Jesus Christ, they're here.
[04:46:05] Hello.
[04:46:06] See you.
[04:46:08] What's going on?
[04:46:11] Oh, cables.
[04:46:13] Yeah.
[04:46:14] OK.
[04:46:14] Yeah.
[04:46:15] Are these what do you think?
[04:46:17] I don't know.
[04:46:19] These are really cool.
[04:46:20] OK.
[04:46:22] Can you ask for me to go to Amazon?
[04:46:24] Yeah.
[04:46:24] No, he said he.
[04:46:25] I think I'm going to sleep.
[04:46:26] Oh, OK.
[04:46:27] Sorry about that.
[04:46:28] Because if I go or just like write on these tables,
[04:46:31] do you think?
[04:46:31] Here it is.
[04:46:32] OK.
[04:46:33] Do we have to be on the screen?
[04:46:35] Not yet.
[04:46:36] Very soon though.
[04:46:38] OK.
[04:46:39] I'm going to sit here for now.
[04:46:41] I'm sorry, I'm not going to be able to do anything.
[04:46:43] Do you guys have water?
[04:46:45] Yeah, definitely.
[04:46:47] Yeah.
[04:46:49] You didn't want me to put the VRV screen?
[04:46:51] Yeah, you might as well.
[04:46:53] Why?
[04:46:55] I don't know if I can even do it.
[04:46:57] You're not even going to do it?
[04:46:59] No, I don't even know what to do.
[04:47:01] I don't know what to do.
[04:47:03] I don't know what to do.
[04:47:05] I don't know what to do.
[04:47:07] I don't know what to do.
[04:47:09] I don't even know if we are on right now. I don't even know if we're live right now.
[04:47:14] I don't like this.
[04:47:16] Can you hear me? It's okay.
[04:47:25] Which internet is the one we're supposed to use? Hi-at-at-bat?
[04:47:28] Oh sorry, I was going to do a talk tour. It's alright.
[04:47:30] Alright, just can you put it in there?
[04:47:32] Yeah.
[04:47:34] Thank you.
[04:47:35] Yeah, I'm sure.
[04:47:39] Thank you.
[04:47:52] Hi, can I have a text with me?
[04:47:58] It's not meeting your lines so let's get it.
[04:48:00] Here.
[04:48:01] You're going to be over here?
[04:48:03] She's asking you to do the work next to me.
[04:48:05] Yes.
[04:48:06] you
[04:48:36] you
[04:49:06] you
[04:49:36] you
[04:50:06] you
[04:50:36] you
[04:51:06] you
[04:51:36] We are back for now okay
[04:52:06] We are waiting for our interview subject to arrive.
[04:52:10] You guys can see me, I'm pretty good.
[04:52:16] We have the new multi-camp setup as always.
[04:52:21] The new multi-camp setup.
[04:52:24] And today we're going to be interviewing Devon O'Shea.
[04:52:29] He's a awesome hobby head.
[04:52:30] You guys might have briefly seen him on the stream.
[04:52:35] When I was in St. Louis, he's from St. Louis.
[04:52:41] We're gonna be talking about the Bill Proffersman book.
[04:52:42] I think he did an interview with Truinand,
[04:52:44] with Chapo as well.
[04:52:47] And he's a St. Louis-based labor historian,
[04:52:50] cultural critic, investigative journalist,
[04:52:51] and scholarship by sex.
[04:52:53] The institutional convergence of municipal oligarchy,
[04:52:58] racial capitalism, and state sanctioned violence
[04:53:01] in the American Midwest.
[04:53:04] His debut book with Haymarket Books, The Veiled Prophet,
[04:53:07] Secret Societies, White Supremacy, and the Struggle
[04:53:09] for St. Louis provides an exhaustive history
[04:53:13] of the veiled prophet society, which some of you
[04:53:17] may have heard of.
[04:53:18] Some of you might be familiar with because of Jimmy Schmidt,
[04:53:22] which we'll be talking about as well.
[04:53:25] An elite civic organization founded in 1878
[04:53:28] by 14 St. Louis merchants, lawyers, and barge
[04:53:33] Barons, Union, and Confederate veterans alike.
[04:53:37] Across extensive investigative reporting for the nation,
[04:53:40] Jacob and Slate and the Intercept of Shea
[04:53:42] has examined the mechanisms through which
[04:53:44] Midwestern corporate dynasties, including chemical behemoth
[04:53:48] Monsanto, defense contractor McDonald Douglas,
[04:53:52] and the Anheuser-Busch Brewing Empire,
[04:53:55] have coordinated with local judiciaries, municipal police
[04:53:58] departments, and federal intelligence programs
[04:54:01] suppressed working class insurgency.
[04:54:04] His work bridges the 19th century class warfare
[04:54:07] with contemporary political developments,
[04:54:09] tracing an unbroken trajectory
[04:54:11] from the municipal commune of 1877
[04:54:14] and the direct action labor disruptions
[04:54:15] of the Percy Green's Action Group
[04:54:18] to the 2014 Ferguson Uprising
[04:54:20] and the legislative maneuvers designed
[04:54:23] to disenfranchise progressive municipal coalitions.
[04:54:27] If you're wondering how St. Louis became, went from being an industrial town to a one
[04:54:38] of the many forgotten towns of America, I think this story will offer unique insight
[04:54:45] into how that took place.
[04:54:48] Can they hear me from this or that?
[04:54:49] Not yet.
[04:54:50] Okay.
[04:54:51] So yeah, that's the conversation that we're going to be having with Devin when he gets
[04:54:56] here the name of the book is the veil of profit
[04:55:26] Um, I have the uh, I have the mic on.
[04:55:30] It's on the eggplant color is your color, thank you.
[04:55:33] Okay, here you go.
[04:55:44] Oh my god, it's buzzing.
[04:55:45] Our buzz, buzzing itself.
[04:55:47] There's a buzz.
[04:55:48] Sound is...
[04:56:26] Test test test
[04:56:28] Test test test
[04:56:30] How's that?
[04:56:32] I don't know
[04:56:34] Test test test
[04:56:36] 1, 2, 3, test test
[04:56:38] It's still buzzing in the audio
[04:56:40] The buzzing in the audio.
[04:56:42] I can hear the fire in the background.
[04:56:54] Turn off the song's mic.
[04:56:58] Maybe it's just being, it's complaining.
[04:57:01] Guys, we're gonna fix it.
[04:57:05] The buzzing didn't happen yesterday. It's during my C-Cable in there, right?
[04:57:09] Yeah
[04:57:39] Okay, don't touch.
[04:57:41] What's your experience?
[04:57:43] I'm here too.
[04:57:45] So was the son's mind his office?
[04:57:47] The son's mind his office?
[04:57:49] The son's mind his office?
[04:57:51] The son's love.
[04:57:53] Just for the lifetime.
[04:57:55] Yeah, a little.
[04:57:57] I think that she's got some.
[04:58:03] We hear back on the news from the people in the room.
[04:58:05] Yeah, they're not even talking.
[04:58:07] They're not going to be talking while we're doing the interview, but you'll hear, wait, actually...
[04:58:14] Sounds like the camera is off, I got it.
[04:58:21] We're just going to shock them.
[04:58:23] Wait, really?
[04:58:24] Yes.
[04:58:25] Test one, two.
[04:58:26] I'm going to be able to do directional with shock them. This is a super sensitive shock them.
[04:58:29] Yeah.
[04:58:30] I guess you literally go to the one camera setup and break down every single thing that you did here.
[04:58:35] Yeah, what we do is if we go chop there, we can bump it up here and we can sit down there, so we cap it when we can.
[04:58:42] We can do it.
[04:58:43] We're supposing his words is bad again.
[04:58:45] Yeah, yeah.
[04:58:46] It's taking, it's taking it.
[04:59:00] Is that it?
[04:59:01] No, no, only one plugged into that part of the tunnel.
[04:59:04] So what's the problem? The problem is for every reason the handle in this lab is not
[04:59:22] I don't want to do the direction
[04:59:27] It's not fix chatters it's just using the directional
[04:59:30] That's why you guys can hear me clearly now.
[04:59:34] Tap your log mic, I think the input of the log system is bored.
[04:59:41] I have other labs under the switch.
[04:59:45] Maybe that'll solve this.
[04:59:48] I'm gonna go.
[04:59:50] I wanna end the fucking broadcast right now.
[04:59:54] I swear to God.
[04:59:56] It's one of the most annoying components of doing this live production is just having
[05:00:07] constant fucking backseat production notes.
[05:00:18] You're going to ox it?
[05:00:48] Yeah, that's...
[05:00:52] Let's test.
[05:00:56] Let's test.
[05:01:00] Okay.
[05:01:04] A good task.
[05:01:18] Hello, hello, task, task, one, two, one, two, task.
[05:01:25] How's this handling?
[05:01:30] It's still bad, it goes fixed for 3 seconds.
[05:01:51] How's this?
[05:01:52] Test, one, two, three, test, test, test, one, two, three.
[05:01:57] Test, one, two, three, bad buzzing.
[05:02:15] Test, test, one, two.
[05:02:21] Pass 1-2, pass 1-2, he is here, pass 1-2, pass 1-2
[05:02:35] One, two.
[05:02:36] That's one, two.
[05:02:45] That's one, two, that's one, two.
[05:03:15] Let's go up fast.
[05:03:17] All right, go.
[05:03:19] Yeah.
[05:03:20] I'll have to put my hands up.
[05:03:33] We're not great, but it normally does.
[05:03:40] Can we bring that part down?
[05:03:42] Yeah.
[05:04:13] Okay, we're just using the directional microphone, hopefully it's going to be good enough to
[05:04:35] hear me from over here and also my guest. These guys are in up the volume. Hold on.
[05:04:43] I just stood here.
[05:04:50] Okay.
[05:04:54] The guest.
[05:04:56] Hello, I'm the guest talking. Do you want to pull up Doven? Alright, let's just do it.
[05:05:01] Hi, Doven.
[05:05:02] I don't think it'll take this damn it, do it.
[05:05:04] Got it.
[05:05:07] What's happening?
[05:05:08] You're gonna sit right here?
[05:05:10] All right, brother.
[05:05:10] Thanks for taking the time for me.
[05:05:12] I really appreciate it.
[05:05:14] Of course.
[05:05:15] Mutual friend, Grace Belvin, of course.
[05:05:17] Yeah.
[05:05:18] Is, it was really nice to get us,
[05:05:21] when you were on screen,
[05:05:21] to talk about the book and the launch,
[05:05:23] as really special.
[05:05:24] Yeah.
[05:05:25] A lot of people were freaking out about it.
[05:05:27] Hell yeah.
[05:05:28] Why has the leg of the leg end the light in it?
[05:05:38] Well, it already does.
[05:05:40] Okay. All right.
[05:05:42] We'll wait for one moment until David is completely ready.
[05:05:51] For sure.
[05:05:53] And then I think we've had some,
[05:05:58] we're, David likes the experiment with multiple camera angles
[05:06:04] and real time live production.
[05:06:06] For no fucking reason, for no fucking reason whatsoever.
[05:06:09] He loves tweaking shit.
[05:06:10] And I tell him all the time, don't tweak shit, David.
[05:06:13] And he's like, no, no, no, it's gonna be perfectly fine.
[05:06:15] And then it's not, but it's.
[05:06:19] It's you have on garden.
[05:06:20] Yeah, it happens.
[05:06:22] we're happening, if we're experimenting,
[05:06:25] we're gonna get there.
[05:06:29] Good.
[05:06:34] Okay.
[05:06:37] The other camera's now on the frame.
[05:06:43] Let's see.
[05:06:44] Any complaints out on the audio since we switched to the chocolate?
[05:07:11] No, I think the audio is fine.
[05:07:23] Okay.
[05:07:24] Okay.
[05:07:26] All right, Devin O'Shea, ladies and gentlemen.
[05:07:29] O'Shea? O'Shea?
[05:07:30] O'Shea.
[05:07:31] O'Shea. Devin O'Shea.
[05:07:32] Thank you.
[05:07:33] You, we linked up in St. Louis.
[05:07:37] St. Louis.
[05:07:38] Briefly.
[05:07:39] when I was out there doing a rally for Court Bush,
[05:07:46] unfortunately that didn't pan out
[05:07:49] in the way that it was supposed to.
[05:07:51] No, yeah, that was an upsetting one.
[05:07:54] The state of Missouri overall seems to be bucking
[05:07:56] the trend of, you know, progressives
[05:07:59] and socialists getting involved with us.
[05:08:02] Okay, yeah, wait, hold on.
[05:08:04] Is it still buzzing?
[05:08:05] Is it buzzing again?
[05:08:08] No, it's not.
[05:08:09] Okay, never mind, I think sorry about this one.
[05:08:11] No, you're chilling.
[05:08:12] Okay.
[05:08:13] When you were in St. Louis, did you go to Medina?
[05:08:17] Did you go to the Palestinian plaster?
[05:08:20] I think, yeah, we went to Russia on it.
[05:08:21] I don't remember if it was Medina or not.
[05:08:24] One of my favorites.
[05:08:26] Yeah, it was delicious.
[05:08:27] The food was delicious.
[05:08:28] The people were awesome.
[05:08:30] Yeah.
[05:08:31] You know, St. Louis is a beautiful, beautiful town.
[05:08:34] A lot of big centers.
[05:08:36] Yeah, the data center thing is really sending everybody.
[05:08:39] It's pretty bad.
[05:08:40] Yeah.
[05:08:42] There's a little controversy with it.
[05:08:45] I feel like when you were there, you were mostly
[05:08:47] in midtown and sort of downtown, too.
[05:08:50] There's so much more in San Luis to see, too.
[05:08:53] There's like, the Tower of Roeberry is really beautiful.
[05:08:56] There's a lot of parks and stuff.
[05:08:58] So you've got to come back.
[05:08:59] And also get in one of those egg elevators
[05:09:02] and go up in the arms.
[05:09:03] You know?
[05:09:04] Have you heard about those?
[05:09:04] No, I have not.
[05:09:06] That's like how you get to the top of the arch
[05:09:08] is you get to get an edge-shaped elevator
[05:09:11] that was designed in the 70s
[05:09:13] and then it cranked up the side of it
[05:09:16] to this trap-as-well room there.
[05:09:20] It's kind of scary.
[05:09:21] I don't understand the arch at all.
[05:09:24] Let's start there.
[05:09:25] You know, we were gonna talk about
[05:09:26] your new book, The Veiled Prophet,
[05:09:27] but I-
[05:09:28] Let's get into this arch.
[05:09:29] This is called Ampestialism.
[05:09:31] Talk to me about the arch.
[05:09:32] Why did you make it?
[05:09:33] Yeah, to honor the gods and pray to the poor but also to hell,
[05:09:37] like why wouldn't,
[05:09:38] you need to make an archer to get to the other world, okay?
[05:09:42] That's just like a prerequisite.
[05:09:44] I think that's what Trump's trying to do in DC right now as well.
[05:09:47] Yeah, for sure.
[05:09:48] That's why DC is laid out that way is to be a pentagram.
[05:09:51] And that was like a Freemason thing,
[05:09:53] but also like, I feel like it is satanic.
[05:09:57] So I don't know.
[05:09:58] It depends on if you think Satan is at the bottom
[05:10:00] of Freemason, I'm not really sure.
[05:10:03] But the arch was designed by Aero Serenin, who was a Norwegian architect who was in the
[05:10:09] OSS, who was, that's like the precursor of GSBIA.
[05:10:13] Yeah, with other notable figures such as Robert Maxwell, father to Ghislaine Maxwell.
[05:10:20] Interesting.
[05:10:21] Yeah.
[05:10:22] Yeah.
[05:10:23] He was responsible for all of our books, all of our school books.
[05:10:26] That's right.
[05:10:27] And also wonderful newspapers.
[05:10:28] The media landscape being so healthy is largely due to his influence.
[05:10:33] Yeah, he's great. Great guy, Robert Maxwell.
[05:10:36] Yeah, for sure.
[05:10:38] Definitely not a Mossad agent.
[05:10:40] No, for sure not.
[05:10:43] Yeah, my senator from Missouri, Eric Schmidt, was just...
[05:10:48] He was like...
[05:10:49] There's a very old St. Louis Post's patch reporter who I have much respect for,
[05:10:54] He just gets to go buck wild in the columns
[05:10:57] whenever he wants to build McClellan.
[05:10:59] He was like, Missouri politics really needs
[05:11:02] more class commonsmanship, which is what Eric Schmidt
[05:11:05] displayed during the Epstein hearings
[05:11:09] when he wrote, I don't care on a notepad,
[05:11:11] and coquettishly held it up.
[05:11:13] So we'll get to the Illuminati in a brief moment
[05:11:19] because your book does feature one of these societies
[05:11:24] that operated in I guess somewhat secrecy but also kind of in broad daylight as
[05:11:31] well in some respects. My first interaction with the veiled prophet was I
[05:11:39] think the same as everybody else. I wasn't very familiar with it until Kimi
[05:11:45] Schmidt. What was it? Unbreakable Kimi Schmidt? Yeah, which I think was a good show. I think she was trying to meet on the office.
[05:11:52] And the lady from Umbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, what is her name?
[05:11:56] Elizabeth Kemper.
[05:11:58] Yeah, so for those of you who are unfamiliar, Elizabeth Kemper was having a bit of a tear
[05:12:05] in her career.
[05:12:06] She was killing it.
[05:12:07] Yeah, for sure.
[05:12:08] From the office, Umbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, and then all of a sudden out of nowhere
[05:12:14] People were like, hey, why were you in the newspaper?
[05:12:18] As the KKK princess?
[05:12:23] Yes, as a clansman, clanswoman princess.
[05:12:27] How does that even work?
[05:12:28] And that's what kickstarted this process, at least for me.
[05:12:33] I didn't dive into it as deeply as you did,
[05:12:35] but you covered extensively in your book.
[05:12:38] But that's what the book is about.
[05:12:42] The book's called The Vettel Prophet.
[05:12:43] I heard it did your intro before you got here.
[05:12:45] You weren't in the room, so it was a cool intro,
[05:12:47] but you're known here.
[05:12:48] Labor historian, cultural critic,
[05:12:50] and how you tie this historical society
[05:12:54] to the merchant class and, you know,
[05:12:58] Titans of Industry in St. Louis
[05:12:59] and how it extends to destroy the labor uprisings
[05:13:05] that have taken place, and also the racialized element
[05:13:07] as well, and we're gonna get into all of that.
[05:13:11] But before we begin, please explain to people, to normal people, what the fuck the veiled
[05:13:19] profit society is.
[05:13:22] It's just a group of guys having fun.
[05:13:25] No, there's one way to put it, they're having fun I think, maybe not right now, but in the
[05:13:31] past.
[05:13:32] Because well, Wope killed him.
[05:13:35] Yeah, and they fear the approach of Wope too.
[05:13:38] Yes.
[05:13:39] It kind of is a victim of war anyway, we'll get to that.
[05:13:44] You can't even have a clan ball anymore.
[05:13:46] No, that's going on.
[05:13:47] I can't make my daughter the clan princess.
[05:13:50] What's this country coming to?
[05:13:52] I know.
[05:13:53] Yeah, so the rules now.
[05:13:55] The rules are that you can't worship a clansman who's
[05:14:00] also an Orientalist character from Coruscant,
[05:14:05] from Iran, or the province of Iran,
[05:14:08] but it also has all this medieval, weird,
[05:14:10] Freedemason's stuff.
[05:14:11] I love it, but see, that's when white people
[05:14:14] were truly on top.
[05:14:15] When they were doing real Victorian Orientalism.
[05:14:17] Yes, yeah.
[05:14:18] Because like, why is it, like, American racists nowadays
[05:14:24] are no longer as invested in Orientalist narratives?
[05:14:28] No, they aren't.
[05:14:29] We're not minting new Shriners organizations.
[05:14:32] Well, what's up with that?
[05:14:33] Why is our new racist class more invested
[05:14:37] in like the Curtis Jarvin style,
[05:14:40] like new American Caesar approach.
[05:14:42] It's genuinely less intellectual in its racism
[05:14:47] than like past versions, past generations of it.
[05:14:50] Yeah, it is strange because at the root of all of that stuff
[05:14:54] is usually like, you wanna go back to King Arthur times
[05:14:59] and like Ivan Ho was sort of like a jumping off point
[05:15:03] for all of these Victorian guys
[05:15:05] what they want to be. They want to be a monarch. They don't want to have anybody
[05:15:09] telling them what to do. They want ultimate authority, which is also like the
[05:15:13] authority to own people. Now our races want to cry on the internet, which is
[05:15:17] very different than having a secret society and like, you know, warping as
[05:15:22] an ancient vizier or whatever they're doing. Yeah, which is a way of buying
[05:15:30] basically like what must purchase with Twitter is just like, I want to
[05:15:34] balcony I can step out on and just be adored whenever I want to. And that is, I think that
[05:15:41] is still at the root of fascists like authoritarian and some of the attitudes of this supreme
[05:15:48] narcissism. But the Victorian guys were doing such a cool job of trying to escape the suppression
[05:15:56] of the Catholic Church and the monarchy in Europe of like, okay, I gotta get out of
[05:16:02] here and put things in different contexts in order to criticize the king. So I'll make
[05:16:06] him a sultan in Chorusan, who's doing endless conquest wars. That's like the sort of poem
[05:16:14] that the Veiled Prophet is based on, it's by Thomas Moore. And it's an anti-imperialist
[05:16:19] poem about how England needs to watch out about getting overextended. It was written
[05:16:25] by an Irish poet who was like kind of in the colonial, he was a colonial subject.
[05:16:30] and so he was writing this Orientalist pair whole.
[05:16:35] Very strange.
[05:16:36] Then a bunch of mid-western guys were like,
[05:16:37] hey, that guy looks a lot like a Klansman,
[05:16:39] that character that he invented, middle prophet.
[05:16:42] And so they started using it specifically
[05:16:45] to crush a general strike in 1877,
[05:16:48] which everybody knows about,
[05:16:50] because it has such a cool name,
[05:16:52] the Great Railroad Strike of 1877.
[05:16:54] Yeah.
[05:16:55] So that's what your chapter one of your book opens up with.
[05:16:59] not with the veiled profit necessarily,
[05:17:01] but with the Great Railroad Strike of 1877,
[05:17:04] a week where black and white workers shut down St. Louis,
[05:17:07] and capital owners never let them live that down.
[05:17:10] No.
[05:17:11] And effectively govern St. Louis.
[05:17:15] Most Americans have not heard about this,
[05:17:18] this Great Railroad Strike of 1877.
[05:17:22] What happened in that week
[05:17:23] and why do you start the book there?
[05:17:27] Yeah, I think that that's a great place to start
[05:17:30] because nobody knows about that.
[05:17:32] And if you actually, I didn't know about that,
[05:17:35] that's not something that I grew up
[05:17:37] knowing about in my household.
[05:17:39] That's like, I got to that sort of in graduate school
[05:17:42] and realized, because I was doing
[05:17:44] St. Louis history research.
[05:17:47] And I was like, oh, there's like,
[05:17:49] there's all this stuff that swirls around 1877.
[05:17:52] It's just a really important year.
[05:17:54] But the narrative of that St. Louis
[05:17:56] and clear on why. It's just like, oh there was a strike that year. And then you dig into it and it's like,
[05:18:01] you have a strike that became, as you said, like a general strike and a multi-racial
[05:18:07] coalition of workers who ran the city for a few days as like a communist government,
[05:18:13] and that freaked out all of the city fathers. And it explains what happens next in St. Louis
[05:18:19] in terms of the private society starts. They have this Klansman who's meant to come in
[05:18:25] and then shatter the strike solidarity.
[05:18:29] He like is coming to town with like a pistol and a rifle
[05:18:32] and he's got another one and a bowie knife.
[05:18:34] It's like a very clear, like,
[05:18:36] there's a violent guy coming to town
[05:18:37] and he's here break, trolling worker strikes.
[05:18:41] And so then you can follow like the profit,
[05:18:44] like initial just like domination of the political apparatus
[05:18:49] and then it kind of falls off
[05:18:50] and people don't really like it anymore.
[05:18:52] It's like not as cool to be in
[05:18:55] because there's all these other competing secret societies
[05:18:58] in Victorian cities.
[05:19:00] Were they having like a racist off?
[05:19:03] I bet, probably.
[05:19:04] Like were they just like,
[05:19:05] we're actually the real white supremacists one.
[05:19:08] Like those guys in Fay.
[05:19:10] Yeah, the guys.
[05:19:11] How are they letting a Mexican in?
[05:19:12] Right, the folks in the Noonday Club
[05:19:14] aren't serious about their anti-Semitism.
[05:19:16] Yes.
[05:19:17] We are, you know.
[05:19:17] I think that was literally like,
[05:19:20] probably in the like country club slash,
[05:19:23] Yeah, like business, guy, and meeting space.
[05:19:26] Secretariat and fighting, not just the product of the left.
[05:19:28] No, not at all.
[05:19:30] And that is a big part of the book, too.
[05:19:32] I hope that came off as just that we're
[05:19:35] studying a kind of elite group in St. Louis that's unique
[05:19:41] in order to realize that they have to be socialized together.
[05:19:45] They have to get along.
[05:19:47] And what Secret Society can do is that they force you
[05:19:50] to go to a DSA meeting next for the bad profit.
[05:19:54] Yeah.
[05:19:55] So actually, I do want to talk about that a little bit,
[05:19:57] because you explicitly reject the idea
[05:20:00] that these Illuminati secretive societies
[05:20:03] are like these all-powerful institutions.
[05:20:06] They're not like these Illuminati-style cabals.
[05:20:10] And they're just prestige brokerages,
[05:20:13] where people with united interests get together,
[05:20:19] and they deliberate institutional space
[05:20:20] for the ruling class, pools social capital,
[05:20:24] insider information, and mutual clash trust.
[05:20:32] Why do you oppose the truth that Alex Jones represents
[05:20:34] about FOHEM being grove and numerous secretive societies
[05:20:36] such as that one?
[05:20:37] That's so fucking true.
[05:20:38] This is called the Gotcha Journal.
[05:20:40] I think that, and this is a good time to announce
[05:20:43] that I also denounce you.
[05:20:45] So, I'll take care of all of the things you said.
[05:20:47] Right after you get a little bit of pushback,
[05:20:49] that's it, that's it.
[05:20:51] With your far-fetched conspiracy,
[05:20:53] that these societies are not all powerful agents of MOLOC.
[05:20:57] Sure, sure, okay listen,
[05:20:59] that was the Gates-Nanobots talking in my brain,
[05:21:01] and now I'm back in control, so.
[05:21:04] Patriots are back in control.
[05:21:05] That's right, everything is fine, don't worry about it.
[05:21:09] Yeah, I think that that's just a better way of,
[05:21:12] it's the classic,
[05:21:13] You know, we're looking at things materialistically of like,
[05:21:18] how does capital flow?
[05:21:19] How does it like entangle people's psychologies into it?
[05:21:23] And like, at the root of it, it just,
[05:21:26] it's the Michael Prentee thing and just like,
[05:21:29] is it so crazy to imagine that the rich
[05:21:32] of people in society get together and like,
[05:21:34] you know, make plans as they have commoners?
[05:21:37] I'm worried about this thing called Davos.
[05:21:39] Yeah, Davos, an interesting spot.
[05:21:41] Do you think that's still the spot or is there,
[05:21:43] No, it's fucking, what is it, Jackson Hole or something?
[05:21:46] It's in Indiana, that's where they go now.
[05:21:48] That's true.
[05:21:49] So much less European, like elevating.
[05:21:51] Yeah.
[05:21:52] Oh, I mean, it's literally elevated.
[05:21:54] It's on the mountains, but it's not elevated in terms of class.
[05:21:58] Sure, yeah, it's still low-class American trash, but it's high up.
[05:22:02] It's interesting, but yeah, I mean, it's pretty obvious that there is,
[05:22:09] I guess there's some necessity for reinforcing that class
[05:22:13] interest through these sorts of initiatives
[05:22:18] by way of secret societies.
[05:22:22] But I do appreciate that you take a materialist approach
[05:22:26] to the secret society narratives, especially
[05:22:29] considering that in this day and age,
[05:22:31] most people have completely cast that aside
[05:22:34] and assume that these guys are just eating babies.
[05:22:38] Sure, they're drinking Adrenochrome.
[05:22:41] Yeah, yeah.
[05:22:43] And that's where they're deriving their power from,
[05:22:45] and not that they're just a bunch of wealthy capitalists
[05:22:47] operating in their class interest.
[05:22:49] Which is funny, because Adrenochrome
[05:22:51] is an interesting metaphor for that.
[05:22:54] It's like how you're preying upon the young.
[05:22:56] You're extracting fear out of them.
[05:22:59] It's like, yeah, this is how the system feels often.
[05:23:04] But the veil profit guys are also specifically weird
[05:23:07] in that like, they're a secret society
[05:23:09] that held a giant parade every year.
[05:23:11] And like a big Debbie Timefall that got a whole lot of press
[05:23:15] from every one of the newspapers.
[05:23:17] So they created this very rich archive of just all
[05:23:21] of the different stuff they were trying out
[05:23:23] over the decades.
[05:23:24] So I got extremely lucky with that.
[05:23:27] But that's also how other secret societies work.
[05:23:31] Because how are you supposed to like bring new guys in
[05:23:34] if nobody knows about it?
[05:23:35] a certain number of people had to know about dialogue.
[05:23:39] I do feel like it's a little bit much
[05:23:41] to put it in the newspaper, though.
[05:23:43] Like, I would assume it's more like,
[05:23:45] we're at the country club, shut up your mouth,
[05:23:48] you're like, that guy doesn't look Jewish.
[05:23:51] Sure.
[05:23:51] We should ask that guy to join our group.
[05:23:55] He looks like a prod.
[05:23:56] Yeah.
[05:23:57] Yeah.
[05:23:58] Is that, so there's the Catholic element,
[05:24:02] the Catholic component as well.
[05:24:03] cycle. This guy is no good. Yeah and the
[05:24:08] developed profits are also strange because they wanted to be known to be in
[05:24:12] it in the mid-century when it's like at the height of its power. This is like the
[05:24:17] executive class of Monsanto and Anheuser-Busch and you know Rouson
[05:24:23] Fiorina and McDonald Douglas, the aerospace company. Yeah all of these very very
[05:24:28] powerful people are in it and they want you to know that they're in it
[05:24:31] because that makes the prestige brokerage very rich.
[05:24:35] That means you can be very exclusionary about who you let in.
[05:24:39] And as I argue throughout the book, towards the end,
[05:24:43] St. Louis has also gone through a century of decline
[05:24:47] and is interesting as a thing to study because of that,
[05:24:51] but that it also, the Velocrafic guys very much
[05:24:55] have contributed and narrated that decline.
[05:24:58] And then at the end of it, all of those guys sold their companies after 2008,
[05:25:05] and now Rustom Purina is owned by Nestle, Monsanto is owned by Bayer,
[05:25:10] McDonald Douglas is owned by Boeing.
[05:25:12] All of those executive positions leave the city, they just go elsewhere.
[05:25:17] And so then St. Louis becomes poorer because our entire economy is based on
[05:25:21] selling rich people shit and a bunch of rich people left.
[05:25:25] So it's a major reason for why I say this is the way it is.
[05:25:28] So before we get to what happened throughout time,
[05:25:33] let's go back to the strike and how it was broken.
[05:25:36] 14 months after a citizen's militia
[05:25:38] raided Shuler's Hall and broke the general strike.
[05:25:41] The Veiled Profit Society holds its first parade
[05:25:44] in the month of October in 1878.
[05:25:48] Five of its 14 founders had personally helped
[05:25:50] with the strike down,
[05:25:52] including St. Louis Police Chief, John G Priest,
[05:25:56] who became the first man to wear the veil.
[05:25:58] What does it tell you that the men who broke the strike
[05:26:01] with batons in 1877 came back the next year in robes?
[05:26:05] And why did they decide the answer to a worker's uprising
[05:26:10] was a parade to flicks their might?
[05:26:12] Yeah, that's a good question because it is very foreign
[05:26:15] for us to think about it like the most important piece
[05:26:19] like media in the Victorian city is being able to put on a parade.
[05:26:25] It's the best way of distributing your message and like being able to control the streets,
[05:26:30] especially before cars, is just like easier and people are doing it all the time basically.
[05:26:37] You gotta do a parade.
[05:26:38] You gotta do a parade.
[05:26:39] Are you a serious political kid and you haven't done a parade?
[05:26:41] Yeah.
[05:26:42] What are you talking about?
[05:26:43] Oh, are you too cheap to afford a parade?
[05:26:45] That is perfect time.
[05:26:46] No one's on their phones.
[05:26:48] not phone and site, just a clans parade.
[05:26:52] Yeah, receiving a message one float as it passes at a time,
[05:26:56] sort of like the slowest form of media possible.
[05:27:00] But that was also what the workers had used
[05:27:02] during the general strike is parades.
[05:27:05] You get everybody out of work, like the,
[05:27:09] in the railroad strike, they started the parade
[05:27:12] and then as we go out front and shut down stores
[05:27:16] and factories and foundries and getting more people
[05:27:18] to add to the parade, so it gets longer and longer.
[05:27:21] People fucking love parades.
[05:27:23] It's cool.
[05:27:24] Nowadays, you just do Macy's Day.
[05:27:26] I don't think that's the only parade I can think of,
[05:27:28] or it's like a small town thing.
[05:27:29] Yeah.
[05:27:30] But it is fun when a sports team wins the Super Bowl,
[05:27:37] whatever.
[05:27:38] And then there's just a riot of people out in the street,
[05:27:41] and you get that like NRK.
[05:27:43] Madison Square Garden, though, was there when the next one.
[05:27:45] It was crazy.
[05:27:46] That feeling is powerful.
[05:27:49] People in the street, and there's this carnival atmosphere.
[05:27:53] And I bring that up because the guys like the Vail Prophet,
[05:27:57] this happened in New Orleans and Monagra also,
[05:28:00] of like, they could afford to build the parade floats,
[05:28:05] and they could afford to put on this big spectacular thing.
[05:28:08] And they suppress that energy from the crowd by doing that.
[05:28:13] So you can use the parade as a force of good or a force of evil.
[05:28:16] And that's kind of what they did.
[05:28:18] Yes.
[05:28:19] And then the first day of the
[05:28:30] I also disavow Zoram Omdani for not attending the Israel Day
[05:28:34] Parade.
[05:28:34] And I'm sure you also feel the same way.
[05:28:36] I'm shaking my head.
[05:28:37] Let's get it out of the way.
[05:28:38] I disavow myself.
[05:28:40] And Zoram Omdani, neither of us attended the Israel Day Parade.
[05:28:43] That's very, yeah, it's very adult of you, you know.
[05:28:46] I think that will make a lot of people feel better.
[05:28:48] So we talked about the iconography a little bit,
[05:28:52] the mysticism, but I do really,
[05:28:55] I keep going back to it because I think that's
[05:28:58] one of the more fascinating elements
[05:28:59] of this entire franchise, because like,
[05:29:03] what is the modern equivalent?
[05:29:05] Like, we don't really have that anymore.
[05:29:08] Not that we don't have like,
[05:29:09] I mean, I guess we don't really have the same like
[05:29:11] secretive society component.
[05:29:14] There's not a lot of fanfare.
[05:29:16] There's not a lot of symbolism any longer.
[05:29:21] But also, maybe, I don't know if it's capitalism that
[05:29:27] is robbed our elite class of being
[05:29:30] able to fantasize about being the mystical deities.
[05:29:34] But what is the modern day equivalent?
[05:29:39] Yeah, I think that is true that they lack,
[05:29:42] like dialogue is just such a perfect example
[05:29:44] of like that sense of lame dog.
[05:29:47] Once you go to dialogue.
[05:29:48] Dialogue is the Peter Thiel,
[05:29:52] the thing that was outed that like Peter Thiel
[05:29:54] was responsible for.
[05:29:55] But when I read that article about dialogue,
[05:29:59] it just reminded me of like the website.
[05:30:01] You know what I mean?
[05:30:02] It didn't have like that same secret society component.
[05:30:07] it's a little ritual and like yeah yeah everyone does Ted talks now yeah that's
[05:30:13] what that's what's taken the place of like getting together in a beer hall and
[05:30:18] and you know what do we whatever the fuck walking a guy in a coffin yeah jackoff in
[05:30:23] there and then like come back out and kiss a skull and be like hey you're
[05:30:28] very old and stuff I mean I guess like fraternity still kind of do it yeah
[05:30:32] That's like a swollen bone ritual, the coffin thing, and that's not my thing.
[05:30:37] Sure, not your thing.
[05:30:39] Sure, not your thing.
[05:30:41] Yeah.
[05:30:42] I think it was specific, interesting.
[05:30:44] Yeah.
[05:30:45] Anyway, I think the iconography is really fascinating because it's so old, it's from the 1870s,
[05:30:54] and that the modern equivalence, like the Ellen Moore quote was being passed around pretty recently of like,
[05:31:01] The first superhero movie might be Birth of a Nation, right?
[05:31:05] It is about a masked vigilante who, like, in accordance to a set of justice that is entirely
[05:31:13] contained in their head, they need to go and police the world.
[05:31:16] And that's like every superhero movie, basically.
[05:31:19] And, like, the Klansman is a character.
[05:31:22] You can say Batman is a Klansman.
[05:31:24] For sure. He's an elite Klansman, because he's already rich.
[05:31:28] There's no solving the systemic problems. He's causing them and the beating the shit out of like these people.
[05:31:34] Somebody argued that the Nolan badmins are about metabolizing the 2008 crisis and then the ones with Robert Patterson where he's like incapable of fixing anything.
[05:31:44] It's like that's our badman because he's the problem. In order to like fix society, you have to eliminate yourself.
[05:31:51] Yeah. He's like though.
[05:31:54] Isn't, that's important.
[05:31:56] He's good in the honesty too.
[05:31:58] Yeah, so you, I haven't seen it yet.
[05:32:00] Oh.
[05:32:01] You feel like the exoticized mysticism that was being deployed
[05:32:06] was to ordain or sanctify their domination, their dominion over everything
[05:32:14] as like a defined order or is it just because they were having fun?
[05:32:20] Is it just because they were just like, this looks weird.
[05:32:23] We like that.
[05:32:23] It's cool.
[05:32:24] Like this is a good way to get people to pay attention
[05:32:28] to what we're doing, the right kinds of people.
[05:32:31] Now, I think that's a good question, because there was
[05:32:33] something libidinally happening for these guys
[05:32:36] to want to join the club and do, you have to be hazed
[05:32:40] and then initiated, and you have to pay dues into it.
[05:32:43] So you have to put some skin in the game.
[05:32:46] I think that the original freemasonry draw
[05:32:52] is they get to get away from formal religion
[05:32:55] and then have an alternate set of symbols to worship
[05:32:58] and stuff like that.
[05:33:00] But I think that in general,
[05:33:04] there's a desire also to have secret knowledge
[05:33:07] and to share it only amongst you and your best friends
[05:33:11] who drink beer together all the time.
[05:33:14] It's sort of like, oh yeah, it's like another narcissistic,
[05:33:16] rich guy thing of like, me and my friends
[05:33:19] have a secret understanding of life.
[05:33:22] That's why we're so successful.
[05:33:23] That explains my massive wealth.
[05:33:26] It's not explained by the fact that I exploit thousands,
[05:33:29] it's not tens of thousands of people
[05:33:31] in order to become wealthy.
[05:33:33] You need like an alternate story of like,
[05:33:35] I actually found the lights.
[05:33:37] And I found this light when I was having an experience
[05:33:40] and it told me things about the nature of reality
[05:33:43] and I use that to get rich.
[05:33:45] I think that's just always been a part of it.
[05:33:47] Yeah, I mean, it's also the live meritocracy as well,
[05:33:50] to a certain degree.
[05:33:51] It's just like, you don't want to think that it's special.
[05:33:56] Also, your wealth is associated with a moral good.
[05:34:00] And it's a moral failing that there
[05:34:01] are so many poor people, they simply don't know what to do.
[05:34:04] They wouldn't even know what to do with all this power
[05:34:07] or all this money if they had it.
[05:34:10] It's a self-reinforcement mechanism almost.
[05:34:14] And it's almost like a burden that they have to shoulder
[05:34:16] in order for them, especially when you're back to them.
[05:34:18] Yeah, exactly.
[05:34:20] The guys themselves, I think,
[05:34:23] can get a tremendous amount out of that.
[05:34:25] And there's also, you just can't neglect the,
[05:34:30] everybody wants to be in the in-club, you know?
[05:34:33] Everybody wants to go to the ball,
[05:34:35] it's like a big deal in the mid-century of like,
[05:34:38] who's going to go, who's going to be seen with who,
[05:34:41] there's a lot of social stuff happening amongst the rich.
[05:34:44] So being one of the guys to put on a horrific rubber mask
[05:34:49] of like Uncle Tom and stand up near the Vale of Graffit
[05:34:54] and put on a spooky Mardi Gras thing,
[05:34:57] tremendous privilege.
[05:35:00] So what about the multi-ethnic working class
[05:35:05] and their interpretation of this parade,
[05:35:08] this facade that they're putting on,
[05:35:10] it's obviously routed, the ball, sorry, the parade,
[05:35:15] the veil profit parade is like deliberately routed
[05:35:16] through, directly through working class
[05:35:19] and immigrant neighborhoods,
[05:35:20] under the illumination of torches,
[05:35:23] there's gunpowder fireworks accompanied
[05:35:26] by a tabloid featuring villainous looking
[05:35:29] executioners and the blood curdling butchers block.
[05:35:33] Yeah.
[05:35:34] Do you feel like, how did this,
[05:35:36] Like what is the fanfare, what role does it play
[05:35:41] in terms of like dominating the working class,
[05:35:45] like making them understand their station in society,
[05:35:48] their position in society?
[05:35:49] Is it pageantry as an ideological
[05:35:52] and coercive media apparatus
[05:35:56] to discipline these multi-ethnic,
[05:36:00] oftentimes illiterate working class individuals?
[05:36:03] Yeah, I'm glad you said that
[05:36:04] Because the alliterative part is like a big part of it, especially when we're talking 1870s,
[05:36:09] 80s, 90s.
[05:36:10] This is when the parade float is like a premier technology for putting some racist ideas into
[05:36:17] the working class.
[05:36:19] Like Alonzo Slebeck, a pretty cool name.
[05:36:21] He was the founder of the Villa Prophet Society.
[05:36:24] And he got to design the first like four parades.
[05:36:29] And in the book I do a brief reading, to not get too into the weeds about it.
[05:36:33] But it's just like, what if we had a manifest destiny parade, right?
[05:36:37] I'm just like, we'll rank all of the races, you know?
[05:36:40] And like, there's five of the floats are all European, and then there's like one float for every continent after that.
[05:36:48] No, it's our representation.
[05:36:50] We don't need a parade now, because we have Twitter, where I rank all the races all the time.
[05:36:55] Exactly, yeah. I have been paying attention to that, and being very unfair to the audience.
[05:36:59] That's why they're covering me in the news.
[05:37:01] Oh, is that what?
[05:37:02] It's so pretty.
[05:37:03] Actually, if I was doing that, they'd probably cover me much more favorably.
[05:37:06] Yeah, honestly, they'd be like, OK, he's finally come to the right.
[05:37:09] Yeah, he recognizes what's up.
[05:37:13] He's no longer a danger.
[05:37:15] But yeah, so you're saying that the parade system is also a way to
[05:37:22] Launders some kind of propaganda, and also give people the wrong ideas potentially about
[05:37:30] how society should function.
[05:37:33] Yeah, they're interesting in that they are like, the narratives are very, very simple,
[05:37:39] but they come up with some astounding racism for that.
[05:37:41] What's your favorite racism?
[05:37:44] In the book or in general?
[05:37:46] Those are different questions.
[05:37:47] Okay, I didn't realize that you would.
[05:37:49] I had to do it for good. I had to learn all the racism and see if we're going to end.
[05:37:59] From these guys.
[05:38:01] From these guys, it's tough, except they were, the Vale of Profit comes out, right?
[05:38:07] Okay, it's in a ballroom. Everybody's decked out and they're finest.
[05:38:11] And then they got like the Bangalancers, this like military group comes out and does a little maneuver.
[05:38:17] And then there's a bunch of characters that kind of come out that are in the Ville Profit entourage.
[05:38:22] The young women in that entourage, like, up until the 1940s were the Ville Profit slaves.
[05:38:32] They were, like, described that way in the newspaper, and that's part of, like, the costuming of it.
[05:38:37] But it's like their family members are being cast as slaves to the Ville Profit.
[05:38:43] He comes from Coruscant because in Coruscant,
[05:38:46] they haven't had the Civil War,
[05:38:47] and therefore the slavery is legal,
[05:38:50] and it actually makes it so much better in Coruscant, of course.
[05:38:53] That's like the whole messaging basically,
[05:38:55] which sucks, it's just such a,
[05:38:58] it was so clearly a Confederate sort of tradition,
[05:39:03] but for like a hundred years,
[05:39:04] I still get people in St. Louis for like,
[05:39:08] I'm sure that's a clansman, we're not really,
[05:39:11] I think it's like our own guy.
[05:39:13] I think he's different.
[05:39:15] I think he might just be some normalist.
[05:39:17] OK.
[05:39:19] They're in the minority, but.
[05:39:22] So you wrote about the century-long trajectory
[05:39:25] of the Anheuser-Busch fear empire.
[05:39:29] You drew on Doug Henwood's concepts
[05:39:31] regarding the decline of bourgeois stewardship
[05:39:34] and the decay of the American ruling class.
[05:39:36] We've kind of touched on it already.
[05:39:38] How does the progression from Gussie Bush's
[05:39:41] Corporate paternalism to August Bush, the fourth's allegedly drug-fueled armed helicopter
[05:39:48] excursions.
[05:39:49] I love it.
[05:39:50] Illustration.
[05:39:51] You're a denier of the helicopter incident?
[05:39:53] I'm just, look, I got a lot of attention.
[05:39:55] I got a lot of eyeballs.
[05:39:56] I got a lot of attention on me.
[05:39:58] I don't want...
[05:39:59] He still does put money into democratic politics, so watch out.
[05:40:03] Yeah, well, I am a sheepdog of the DNC.
[05:40:06] That's true.
[05:40:07] That's also true.
[05:40:08] That's probably...
[05:40:09] Radical, anti-faculty centrists.
[05:40:11] Yes, that's why I'm being careful of my words.
[05:40:14] There's been the broader cultural and functional collapse.
[05:40:16] How does this illustrate the broader cultural
[05:40:19] and functional collapse of the American capitalist class,
[05:40:22] the ruling class?
[05:40:24] Is it in shitification?
[05:40:28] Yeah, for sure.
[05:40:29] It's definitely, I love that book actually,
[05:40:31] Cory D'Oro, like, that's such a good term and...
[05:40:35] I think it describes everything so perfectly.
[05:40:37] Yeah, he killed it with that one.
[05:40:41] I think it is, except what the Vail Profits declined,
[05:40:44] and especially with when I was growing up,
[05:40:47] people who were in St. Louis and had a job at the brewery,
[05:40:51] you're doing good.
[05:40:52] That is like the economic heartbeat of St. Louis
[05:40:54] is pumping out cheap beer, you know?
[05:40:58] And it was big point of pride.
[05:41:00] It was brewed in St. Louis.
[05:41:01] It was very, that was on every Budweiser commercial.
[05:41:04] And then in 2008, they sold it to MBEV.
[05:41:06] and it was heartbreaking for the whole city.
[05:41:09] Because all of those executives, as we had mentioned,
[05:41:11] move on and out.
[05:41:13] In the book, I talk about how the big profit
[05:41:17] is also a good metaphor for rich people becoming so rich
[05:41:21] that they ultimately just disentangle themselves
[05:41:24] from the city that made them rich.
[05:41:26] They just evaporate out.
[05:41:29] Yeah, no, it's like, you just become
[05:41:31] a person of capital at that point.
[05:41:33] You are stateless, nothing anchors you to a single point.
[05:41:39] It's just profit.
[05:41:40] And so you're a pure profit-making machine.
[05:41:43] Yeah, exactly.
[05:41:44] And then that is your family also, if you're the Bushes.
[05:41:47] So then what do you think happens when they've
[05:41:50] sold the brewery, the Golden Goose is dead?
[05:41:53] We're still kind of rich.
[05:41:54] And we're hanging around St. Louis.
[05:41:56] They got an MTV show called The Bush Family Rude.
[05:42:00] So they tried to become reality stars.
[05:42:03] and they only lasted one season.
[05:42:05] I think, so here's the, that's been fascinating
[05:42:07] that you brought that up, because I think that there is
[05:42:09] something to be said, Felix Biedermann for the show,
[05:42:13] always likes to say everyone wants to sell t-shirts.
[05:42:16] And I think like that is the more modern iteration of like,
[05:42:20] what you're talking about is a very specific era in time
[05:42:23] of the t-shirt salesman, the influencer,
[05:42:26] which was the reality TV star.
[05:42:28] Now they just want to be influencers,
[05:42:31] including but not limited to people who get positions in the FBI,
[05:42:34] for example, from their influencer job.
[05:42:38] And then they run back to their influencer job
[05:42:40] like Dan Bongino, deputy director of the FBI.
[05:42:42] And literally, they was like, I don't want to do this anymore.
[05:42:46] I don't want to do this like real job shit.
[05:42:48] I want to go back to fucking talking
[05:42:50] about conspiracy theories on my podcast.
[05:42:54] And I do think that at the end of the day,
[05:42:56] it all still loops back to wanting
[05:42:59] to be one version of that, famous for no reason other than the fact that people adore you and
[05:43:06] admire you.
[05:43:07] Do you think that this is part of the animosity they have towards you specifically?
[05:43:11] I think maybe.
[05:43:12] Because it's like you're sort of, you don't, but you also don't have the burden of being
[05:43:17] a senator.
[05:43:18] So they can have the attention and the prestige of their position in their life, but he's
[05:43:23] got a more pure form of it.
[05:43:25] Yeah, and I don't have to like play ball with all these dipshits and I just say how I feel like
[05:43:33] Yeah, there's definitely a freedom that comes from what I do, and I think there's animosity from
[05:43:40] mainstream outlets as well, like editorial teams where they're like this dickhead sits around in his living room and
[05:43:46] yeah, so you can just wear it, you can just do it in his underwear if you want to do it.
[05:43:49] He's doing it in his suit now because he thinks he wants to be adult. And it's working.
[05:43:53] I think it's working. It is. But it's also had this this negative
[05:43:57] Everyone thinks I'm running for office. Sure. And that's terrifying for them for some reason
[05:44:03] So they like treat me as though I am a senator. Yeah, I don't even know if they they may be like in
[05:44:09] Say that they're threatened to buy that but it's like he's not made any moves for that
[05:44:14] And also I already have the influence of job
[05:44:18] You already won
[05:44:20] I'm selling t-shirts like hotcakes.
[05:44:22] I don't need to do this stuff.
[05:44:25] But in their psychology, that is funny.
[05:44:27] It's like, well, they want to keep
[05:44:28] us to come from my side or from my, like,
[05:44:30] my important political.
[05:44:32] It's like, that's, yeah, I really want to court lobbyists.
[05:44:35] Yes, I want to have to listen to a lobbyist yell at me
[05:44:38] all the time.
[05:44:39] I have like 17 different ones, which one I like.
[05:44:41] Definitely.
[05:44:42] Yeah, that sounds cool.
[05:44:44] All right, getting back to 2008, Bush Dynasty
[05:44:47] capitulates to this unsolicited buyout by multinational
[05:44:51] Bruin conglomerate, you've already brought it up, in bed.
[05:44:55] They effectively liquidate their local administrative
[05:44:58] authority, they transfer the manufacturer and control
[05:45:01] the global private capital.
[05:45:05] We already talked about the importance of the brewery
[05:45:07] in general, but what kind of downstream effects did that
[05:45:10] have on people in Missouri across the board?
[05:45:15] Yeah. There's a very fascinating dynamic that's happening in Missouri as well as in basically every red state with a bunch of blue cities in it, is that the decisions that are made at the state level are not for the benefit of the urban spaces.
[05:45:33] If we make the urban spaces better, it's kind of filled up with a bunch of Democrats. And then the state is going to become...
[05:45:39] It's deliberate like they know like the at the state level Republicans are very aware that like urbanization
[05:45:47] Puts a diverse group of individuals together and when you kind of start living next to one another you realize that you probably shouldn't hate them
[05:45:54] I legitimately this is a conspiracy. I believe them because in like in St. Louis right now
[05:46:00] We just had the tornado that was being talked about when you were there with Corey
[05:46:04] The tornado raged through a pretty rich part of town at first and then it hit one of the most
[05:46:10] impoverished, systemically underfunded and destroyed communities north of Del Mar. And so it's just been
[05:46:19] we all knew what was going to happen. If you live in St. Louis you know what's going to happen.
[05:46:23] Nothing. No, the money is going to get tied up and moved around and it's just not ever going to
[05:46:27] get to the poor black people in St. Louis that need it because you have to get Josh
[05:46:33] hallway to like care about that order Schmidt and that's just not going to happen.
[05:46:37] Josh is such a populous champion.
[05:46:41] That's right. And he's with handsome.
[05:46:42] Yeah. Yeah.
[05:46:44] And gay. Allegedly. Allegedly.
[05:46:46] No.
[05:46:47] Allegedly.
[05:46:48] I read this book, Manhood, and he hardly talks about kissing any man.
[05:46:54] Yeah, that's true.
[05:46:55] How can you read it?
[05:46:56] You don't know nothing about man unless you kiss a man.
[05:46:58] Come on.
[05:46:59] Okay, that's fair.
[05:47:01] Perhaps he has a lot of experience in it, but he didn't want to flex how much knowledge
[05:47:06] he has in that space.
[05:47:07] I haven't seen him kiss a guy, but I haven't seen him kiss his wife.
[05:47:11] I thought it was in my mind, and that to me, I mean, he kisses life like a K-drama
[05:47:19] actor.
[05:47:20] So that to me was like, that's a gay man.
[05:47:23] Allegedly, allegedly a gay man.
[05:47:26] Which there's not a...
[05:47:27] I don't know.
[05:47:28] I think it's the paradigm of masculinity, actually.
[05:47:29] There's a picture that lives in my mind permanently is him purchasing wine in the middle of the
[05:47:36] day, old foods, and I don't think I've ever, no disrespect to your state, but I've never
[05:47:41] seen someone from Missouri with pecs like that.
[05:47:43] He's working out a lot.
[05:47:44] I've been an aesthetic gay man.
[05:47:45] Yeah, he's been a gay man a whole lot for sure.
[05:47:49] Yeah.
[05:47:50] I mean, I don't know, this is the weird thing about being ruled by a bunch of
[05:47:54] Psychotic Republicans in Missouri is like that's the most important guy in the state. If you want anything in St. Louis to change you gotta get
[05:48:02] You've got to have a threatening attitude towards the state house and in St. Louis and in Kansas City
[05:48:09] We haven't been able to figure out how to
[05:48:12] triangulate the industry that makes all the money in the state like between Kansas City, St. Louis and Springfield
[05:48:18] that's 70% of the GDP yeah, and
[05:48:22] And we don't get any public transit funding.
[05:48:26] Stuff gets canceled all the time.
[05:48:29] We're getting data centers, it's the only developments.
[05:48:32] Or they're gonna pour a bunch of money into downtown
[05:48:34] instead of giving it to the tornado victims.
[05:48:37] Like, it's just the same cycle on repeat,
[05:48:41] which is on purpose, I think.
[05:48:42] They want more Republicans in the county,
[05:48:45] so they would rather develop elsewhere.
[05:48:47] So, you've analyzed the career of St. Louis Civil Rights Strategy's Percy Green, particularly
[05:48:54] his early realization that mainstream nonviolent organizations like CORE had descended into
[05:49:00] an ineffective and conciliatory tea and cookies approach.
[05:49:05] What tactical deficiencies in liberal civil rights organizing prompted Green to establish
[05:49:11] the action committee to demand direct economic concessions
[05:49:15] rather than symbolic integration.
[05:49:17] Yeah, this is good, because I quote,
[05:49:21] not quote, but quote,
[05:49:22] quote comes in this lineage of like very strong
[05:49:25] African-American politicians from St. Louis
[05:49:27] and Percy Green was a genius of media manipulation
[05:49:32] for his time.
[05:49:33] If you got television is just coming in
[05:49:36] but there's newspaper, imagery, photography.
[05:49:39] Percy Green broke with CORE in order to do like one of the most famous civil rights protests in St. Louis history
[05:49:47] where the arts were being built and it's just like kind of two little things taking on.
[05:49:51] And then him and Richard DeLay, a white activist, action was this deliberately integrated group
[05:49:58] where the white protesters would get arrested more often, protecting the black leadership.
[05:50:03] and so green and delay climbing arch to protest the fact that there was zero
[05:50:10] African-American laborers on the job site. It's a big federal contract, it's a big
[05:50:15] historic thing, it's also going to be like a metaphor for Western expansion
[05:50:20] basically. And so green by occupying the half-built arch and demanding this
[05:50:27] like equality you like flip it into a civil rights icon now that's like
[05:50:32] Now the arch is about whether or not we're united in getting to call on the question like equality in the city.
[05:50:41] Dumping molasses in southwestern bills, lobby to declare that racism is sticky.
[05:50:45] That's pretty funny.
[05:50:46] Yeah. So these were visually provocative stunts.
[05:50:50] Yeah.
[05:50:51] It's funny. In Kimmer, they were like a guerrilla theater group.
[05:50:55] So they were theater kids too, kind of working on messaging.
[05:50:59] So what would you say is like,
[05:51:03] is there a modern day equivalent to what people do?
[05:51:06] I mean this is like before the advent of digital media
[05:51:09] so obviously there's no internet,
[05:51:10] there's nothing like that
[05:51:12] and they're trying to get their message out
[05:51:14] in this salient way.
[05:51:16] That's a great question
[05:51:17] because I've thought about that too.
[05:51:19] The problem is that like in the mid century
[05:51:21] when they're trying to locate the most effective media
[05:51:25] vessel to talk about this like economic meltdown.
[05:51:28] There's like, parades are out of the question.
[05:51:30] No, no parades.
[05:51:32] Parades are not popping anymore.
[05:51:33] The city ain't gonna give you a permit for that parade.
[05:51:35] Yeah, they don't even want to fuck in the streets.
[05:51:40] But the whole hippie thing also in the theory
[05:51:44] of like a lot of that protest from that era is like,
[05:51:47] if you can inject your message into the mainstream,
[05:51:51] it will look like no other message
[05:51:53] and it will gain attention that way.
[05:51:54] It's like, your subject to nonstop
[05:51:58] Vietnam propaganda and then suddenly you see a soldier with like war is fucked on
[05:52:03] his helmet and you're like oh that's a crazy like that was the hippie strategy
[05:52:07] destruction that way now we just live in like schizophrenia media landscape where
[05:52:13] I get 17 different messages they all look kind of slightly different but so I
[05:52:20] think it's like we have to think about how that's way different now like
[05:52:25] or any kind of like big stunt is usually like a marketing scheme like the couple that
[05:52:31] I see on that yeah the couple that scale was at the Empire State Building or whatever
[05:52:35] and they got up all the way to the top and then it was like love is love or something
[05:52:39] yeah it was all like Netflix series
[05:52:41] you had a moment to disseminate any fucking message in the world and you're like
[05:52:45] yeah it was for a Netflix marketing opportunity I think I'm not mistaken
[05:52:49] That is so insane.
[05:52:51] Yeah.
[05:52:51] I think that that stunts or I think this also applies
[05:52:57] to anybody who's going to do like.
[05:53:01] Yeah, he's a journalist.
[05:53:04] OK.
[05:53:06] Yeah.
[05:53:06] I was going to talk about political violence,
[05:53:08] but we can move on.
[05:53:09] No, no, we can talk about political violence.
[05:53:11] I mean, you're live on Twitter right now.
[05:53:14] Oh, yeah.
[05:53:14] I figure.
[05:53:15] I'll talk about this.
[05:53:16] Sure.
[05:53:17] Alright, so 1972, at the Vale of Profit Ball inside the publicly funded Keele Auditorium,
[05:53:23] action member Gina Scott, dropped from the balcony on a cable and tore the Vale of Profit
[05:53:29] unmasking Monsanto.
[05:53:32] Vice President Tom K. Smith, what was the structural significance of revealing that
[05:53:37] this hooded civic icon was an executive that had just overseen wartime manufacturing
[05:53:43] Agent Orange during the Vietnam War?
[05:53:45] That is a weird coincidence that such a powerful metaphor was embodied in the guy himself.
[05:53:53] Like it could have been a more boring lawyer in town or a circuit judge or something.
[05:53:59] No.
[05:54:00] It's the vice president of the company that is in the middle of manufacturing agent Orange.
[05:54:06] And like this is also very strange because there's a bunch of media there.
[05:54:12] There's the Globe Democrat, the Post-Espatch.
[05:54:15] They see Tom K. Smith have the veil ripped off
[05:54:19] and a bunch of flashballs go off
[05:54:21] and we don't have a picture of Tom without the veil on him.
[05:54:25] We only have a picture of him once he's got it back on.
[05:54:29] And so there's also this conspiracy on the night
[05:54:32] that had happened to suppress out of respect
[05:54:35] for the prophet.
[05:54:36] Of course.
[05:54:36] You know, his identity and not publishes name.
[05:54:39] And it took like the same lose,
[05:54:41] journalism review, this smaller independent newspaper
[05:54:44] that actually publishes name and talk about it,
[05:54:47] which is crazy.
[05:54:49] Going along with the lack of accountability
[05:54:51] for unbelievably powerful but unbelievably villainous
[05:54:54] people, neither Monsanto nor Dow Chemical were held liable
[05:54:58] for producing the chemical that ruined the lives
[05:55:00] of millions in the correct 20% of South Vietnam's jungles.
[05:55:04] You wrote, many Monsanto executives
[05:55:06] who filled the ranks of the Bay of Profits Society
[05:55:09] gave the orders, barreled the product,
[05:55:11] shipped it to Vietnam,
[05:55:13] and designed the messaging that concealed
[05:55:15] the substance's true lethality.
[05:55:17] Now, technically there was a settlement.
[05:55:20] It's just that they did not admit liability.
[05:55:23] Settlement was for US veterans, of course.
[05:55:25] Oh, right, yeah.
[05:55:26] Yeah.
[05:55:28] Why do you believe Tom Caseman needed to veil
[05:55:31] for his role in this organization,
[05:55:32] but not for the production of the chemical
[05:55:34] that led to birth defects in 500,000 children?
[05:55:38] Yeah, I think that the,
[05:55:40] Is that a powerful metaphor?
[05:55:42] Yeah, I think so, especially because like,
[05:55:45] at the time, I'm not sure what the mood on Agent Orange was,
[05:55:50] but I think they've not said that it was able to
[05:55:52] basically convince the defensive firemen,
[05:55:54] just like all of these,
[05:55:56] another big thing that happened in St. Louis
[05:55:57] was a lot of uranium testing.
[05:55:59] There was refining uranium for the atomic bomb,
[05:56:02] and then there was also a bunch of sprayer experiments.
[05:56:05] And so they were kind of on the cutting edge
[05:56:07] of the chemical development stuff.
[05:56:09] This is also, of course, a company that's given us roundup.
[05:56:14] So they know how to get a chemical out there,
[05:56:20] or they know how to get the federal contract for it,
[05:56:24] and have done just enough research to be like, well,
[05:56:26] we're not really sure what it does in the long run.
[05:56:29] We're not totally sure of the 10 to 15 to 20 year
[05:56:33] ramifications, which is also why
[05:56:35] Monsanto is not proud of this era and like marks it off as like yeah, we're up to some crazy stuff right there
[05:56:41] It's like German automobile company. Exactly. It is weird time period where they were definitely active
[05:56:47] Yeah, you don't really know what they were doing. No, they were experimenting. They were probing things out and then precise German engineering
[05:56:55] Just not exactly sure what they were engineering. Yeah
[05:56:59] You know what some bad eggs are in there too. Yeah
[05:57:02] So, who's to say, we learned our lesson there.
[05:57:06] Definitely, we would never do such a thing continuously to this day.
[05:57:10] So, these guys actually is doing this
[05:57:14] guerrilla theatrical,
[05:57:18] these incidents, certainly the state response
[05:57:22] was perfectly normal and not severe involving car bombings,
[05:57:26] municipal arrests, FBI
[05:57:30] Cointel pro buyer tapping and the deployment of a poison pen letter to fracture activist personal lives
[05:57:38] Yeah
[05:57:40] But in spite of all that green simultaneously pursued litigation that produces Greenport ruling in McDonald Douglas Corp. Yeah green
[05:57:48] How did action navigate the narrow terrain between aggressive street insurgency and
[05:57:53] Legal victory against federal defense contractors. Yeah, that's a great question. I mean
[05:57:58] And the mood for McDonnell Douglas,
[05:58:03] this was the same play basically as the Arch, right?
[05:58:05] And so McDonnell Douglas had basically
[05:58:08] an entirely white employment field.
[05:58:11] And Percy Green was one of the first engineers
[05:58:14] to get hired there.
[05:58:16] And so after he had done the Arch demonstration,
[05:58:19] he then suddenly gets fired from McDonnell Douglas
[05:58:22] for doing political activism.
[05:58:25] But there's also embedded in the aerospace industry.
[05:58:27] The executives are doing other kinds of political activism, like the male profits society.
[05:58:33] Sure, yeah.
[05:58:34] But that's appropriate.
[05:58:35] That's allowed.
[05:58:36] Yeah.
[05:58:37] That kind of activism where I originally have a Debbie Town ball and crown him like the
[05:58:41] most beautiful daughter.
[05:58:42] Slaves.
[05:58:43] Yeah.
[05:58:44] Slaves.
[05:58:45] The Queen of Love and Beauty.
[05:58:46] That's different.
[05:58:47] When Green does that, it's like verbotim.
[05:58:52] I think that he got the right moment where there was just
[05:58:57] a shift after lots and lots of civil rights protests
[05:59:01] and lots of left lawyers making a lot of progress.
[05:59:06] This comes on the back of the Martin Luther King movement.
[05:59:10] King, I think, it's killed three years
[05:59:13] before the 72 unveiling.
[05:59:15] And I think it's a year before the settlement.
[05:59:18] I can't remember.
[05:59:20] But they're reaping the fruits of the civil rights movement.
[05:59:25] And I think that also helped protect Percy Green.
[05:59:29] There's a very good PBS documentary about Percy Green
[05:59:33] put on by the local station that talks about just
[05:59:39] all of the moments of his life.
[05:59:41] And then, like, I don't know, it just
[05:59:45] is a really good job of talking about the community he
[05:59:47] was able to organize that became action and became this like left tradition in
[05:59:52] St. Louis. He's like a really important guy and he also had a St. Louis cop with
[05:59:57] like the muzzle of a gun to his head before. As you said the Cointel program
[06:00:02] was calling his wife constantly and being like your husband is dead you have to
[06:00:07] come down to the morgue to identify him and they would just do that over
[06:00:11] and over and over again. You know what is really funny about that it's like
[06:00:14] That kind of stuff reminds me of what was the secret service
[06:00:19] in East Germany?
[06:00:22] The NKVD?
[06:00:23] Yeah, NKVD.
[06:00:25] The idea, I don't know how real this reporting was,
[06:00:29] but they would go into the homes of the incidents
[06:00:32] and rearrange things.
[06:00:33] So it was like rearrange things in the house
[06:00:36] to be like you're constantly under surveillance
[06:00:38] and we're like fucking up your life,
[06:00:40] but in like an increasing series of pranks.
[06:00:43] And this is a lot more severe, of course.
[06:00:44] And then there's also the MLK blackmail as well,
[06:00:48] not dissimilar to this where it, there were the tapes.
[06:00:52] But, yeah, I like, I would, if I was in charge
[06:00:59] of a dictatorship of the proletariat
[06:01:01] and I had a secret police as one does,
[06:01:03] that's what I would do.
[06:01:04] I would do like low level, like freak out.
[06:01:07] Psychological warfare.
[06:01:08] Yeah, low level psychological warfare,
[06:01:10] Like nothing severe, no arrest, but it's just like,
[06:01:14] just know that you're under watch.
[06:01:16] Yeah, you could do so much Kafka stuff,
[06:01:18] like invite somebody into court, you're being sued.
[06:01:21] Every day come back home, no toilet paper.
[06:01:23] Yeah, oh, that's a good idea.
[06:01:24] I take all the toilet paper out.
[06:01:25] Or, depending on the severity of the crime.
[06:01:28] Sure.
[06:01:29] Depending on the severity,
[06:01:30] because if you're just like a simple critic,
[06:01:33] yeah, right?
[06:01:35] Not that you're like collaborating
[06:01:36] with Western counter-revolutionary forces or anything,
[06:01:39] You're just like a simple critic. I don't like what you're saying. You said something as you said. Yeah, I'm swapping out your two-ply for like
[06:01:48] Degrading the quality of your toilet paper like what the fuck is going on? Yeah, that'd be cool. Yeah, yeah watering down their toothpaste
[06:01:55] Yeah, it's like everything. It's a little shittier. Yeah, and they're like us that reflection of me being mean to
[06:02:01] Yeah, and then my leader. Yeah, and then they reform exactly because they become paranoid and they want to please
[06:02:08] Yes. Yeah. No, I think that's a good idea. Thank you. Thank you for endorsing my, my version of...
[06:02:15] This is the 10-year plan, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. This is going to be on Greg Butfeld tonight.
[06:02:21] He's great. He had such a senior about the Socialism Conference that you hear about.
[06:02:26] What did he say? Oh, he's, that's the king of late night.
[06:02:29] Oh. He's talking about Greg Butfeld. Oh, wait. Am I thinking of another Fox News?
[06:02:33] The short one. It looks like a gremlin. Oh, yeah. This is the short one.
[06:02:36] Jesse Waters the one that looks like a the one that looks like you might need to
[06:02:39] cover your drinks around no he's got the comb egg yeah I can't remember if it was
[06:02:47] Greg or not but they were just like yeah poor people go to the Socialism
[06:02:51] Conference that was the zanger but also at the same time rich educated
[06:02:58] college liberals yeah it's like coming in the time when the messaging is dsa
[06:03:03] kids are out trust fund bays, but the people that did socialism conference, they fly economy.
[06:03:08] Yeah, cool. But I like that. That's like more honest, because that brings us back to a time
[06:03:14] of like country club republicanism where they had like open and active disdain for four people.
[06:03:20] Nowadays you have this like right populist slant, but they're like, no, we're the real working class,
[06:03:25] like, you know, and I don't like that because it's just, that's more reflective of their actual attitude
[06:03:30] and their actual policy outcomes anyway if they just have like open discussed for the working class and then just you know
[06:03:37] working for in general
[06:03:40] Ellie Kemper
[06:03:42] Let's talk about it again briefly talked about it, but I want to hear your perspective in particular case
[06:03:49] Woke comes in. Yeah, and this is very dramatic. This is local for the final.
[06:03:54] Yeah, this is the one point. I was like no more plan stuff
[06:03:57] What the fuck is Ellie Kemper doing in this deputant ball in a clan ball?
[06:04:04] She of course has to apologize for it for being crowned queen at 19 years old
[06:04:10] You wrote the headline Kimmy Schmidt was a KKK princess
[06:04:16] and you said that was basically true but aimed at the
[06:04:20] The headline the Kimmy Schmidt was a KKK person was basically true. It was aimed at the wrong person
[06:04:25] who should have been aimed at instead? Yeah, crucially I have always told the
[06:04:32] line here I'm like that is the thing that got really popular that was the meme
[06:04:36] that hit the internet. That's how I learned about it, like a profit, which is helpful for selling your books so I can reconsider.
[06:04:43] Yeah, so it has been a great move to me personally.
[06:04:47] Is that when you found out about it?
[06:04:49] I had been writing about the profit stuff for four years before that.
[06:04:56] So when that came out of your life, dollars?
[06:04:58] I was like, okay, we got it.
[06:05:00] Yes, because we had also had the first True Non episode about it,
[06:05:04] and Liz had a very funny tweet after that of like,
[06:05:07] oh, somebody's not listening to True Non.
[06:05:09] We knew about this a year and a half ago,
[06:05:11] that Ellie Kentbury's got it like a little...
[06:05:14] So then it just blew up online and do you think you cancelled Ellie Kemper?
[06:05:19] Me personally, yeah.
[06:05:21] Do you think you played her well?
[06:05:22] I made a call.
[06:05:23] Yeah.
[06:05:24] You made the boss call?
[06:05:25] Yeah, for sure.
[06:05:26] I think that she, I don't know, my line on this of course is just like, she's a 19 year old girl
[06:05:33] and like, I interviewed a lot of young women who had gone to the video profit ball
[06:05:38] They just either wanted to talk about the experience or to talk about their family and whatever.
[06:05:45] And they described this as when you're a rich kid growing up in this very conservative and
[06:05:50] wealthy county, this is one weird thing that you have to do when you're a teenager, a sandwich
[06:05:57] between several other weird things, like country club shit, carriage club, polo stuff.
[06:06:04] It's a different world that they live in.
[06:06:08] that we should be upset at the Kemper family, perhaps.
[06:06:12] They own Commerce Bank, or they're
[06:06:14] the CEO class of Commerce Bank.
[06:06:18] But this has also changed radically the organization,
[06:06:21] because now the price of becoming the queen is staggered.
[06:06:27] You could be saddling your daughter
[06:06:29] with a terrible thing that's going to blow up on her
[06:06:32] if she makes it all the way to the top of Hollywood.
[06:06:36] and she gets a commission install of Netflix show.
[06:06:40] She's so lucky to get through all of those barriers
[06:06:42] and get there.
[06:06:43] That's crazy to have being like,
[06:06:46] ah, well I made you do some problematic stuff
[06:06:48] when you were, before you were able to say no.
[06:06:51] So after the blow-up society apologized,
[06:06:53] they dropped the profit from the parade,
[06:06:54] which again, will killed it,
[06:06:56] and I'm very sad about that.
[06:06:58] And it's COO claimed, VP is just letters.
[06:07:02] Yeah.
[06:07:03] It stands for nothing.
[06:07:05] Then in 2024, they brought the ball back with a grand oracle, this time in a gold mask,
[06:07:12] and a member showed up as a Bengal dancer, most again, but this in brown face.
[06:07:18] Of course.
[06:07:19] What the fuck are they doing?
[06:07:21] What's they should stand for now?
[06:07:24] Have they lost their sauce?
[06:07:26] This is a great question.
[06:07:27] This is an active question.
[06:07:29] Yeah.
[06:07:30] Yeah.
[06:07:31] This was a very weird PR stunt.
[06:07:32] After the early Kemper thing, they come out and they're like,
[06:07:35] we're, we listen to everybody, we'll confuse one.
[06:07:38] Okay, we're getting one of our guys.
[06:07:40] I look back at that period of time so fondly because,
[06:07:44] I mean, I obviously thought it was funny and stupid
[06:07:46] with like, you know, McDonald's CEO coming out
[06:07:48] and being like, we have to listen to, you know,
[06:07:50] black trans women when we're making McDonald's burgers
[06:07:53] or whatever, and it's like, this is so fake.
[06:07:55] Like you're, you know, it's obviously so fucking fake
[06:07:58] what you're doing, but it's extra funny
[06:08:01] when it's the veiled prophet, trying to do a version of that?
[06:08:04] Or it's like, here at the clan, here at the clan,
[06:08:07] we're doing some reforms.
[06:08:09] He's not called the Grand Dragon anymore.
[06:08:10] He's sort of like the Eye of Sauron.
[06:08:13] We're just going to come out and say, he's the talent there.
[06:08:16] So they got hit with the corporate Memphis style.
[06:08:19] They changed the fonts around a little bit, the art style.
[06:08:23] This is an inclusive, all-inclusive clan now.
[06:08:27] Well, this is weird, because this
[06:08:29] This is the neoliberal version of the nonprofit society.
[06:08:33] And so they are trying to advance or change the narrative
[06:08:36] to say, we're actually a charitable organization,
[06:08:39] or a 501C3.
[06:08:41] And we go around and we do charity projects together.
[06:08:45] And it's mostly a fraternal brotherhood
[06:08:47] that's based around family, and building the St. Louis
[06:08:50] community, making it robust, and the amount of charity work
[06:08:55] they actually do is totally negligible.
[06:08:58] I would imagine that the boys got to do significantly more
[06:09:02] and have a bigger impact.
[06:09:04] But they're trying to just slip under the radar
[06:09:07] and they kind of want to just keep putting on the costume.
[06:09:11] There's a libidinal drive to want to put on the clown robe.
[06:09:15] So they're still active, is what you're saying.
[06:09:18] They're still an active initiative.
[06:09:21] They're still getting together.
[06:09:23] They're not putting on the ball.
[06:09:25] They are putting on the ball.
[06:09:27] Well, they are pretty unqualified.
[06:09:29] In December, if you want to come through.
[06:09:31] OK, I'm going to.
[06:09:32] The Hyatt downtown at the end of December in San Luis, Missouri?
[06:09:36] But like how do they manage not getting hit by a woke again?
[06:09:42] Or is it, yeah, or Donald Trump won the presidency
[06:09:46] on an anti-woke slant?
[06:09:48] Sure.
[06:09:48] Are they getting extra racist this time around?
[06:09:51] Maybe that's why the Bangalow Lancer guy felt pretty
[06:09:54] bolden to put brown makeup on his face. That is very strange. The big ill answers were the
[06:10:00] white British troops in India during the Raj. Why are you putting brown face on? That doesn't make
[06:10:06] any sense. How would they know it's a Bengal Lancer if it wasn't, if he wasn't doing brown face?
[06:10:11] If he was like a big illy guy, they've gotten their own history, I think, a little mixed up.
[06:10:17] Yeah, they are also struck with the crisis of illiteracy.
[06:10:22] Right, nobody has read that poem, it's a very long poem, it kind of sucks to read.
[06:10:27] So, let's talk about 2014, let's talk about Ferguson.
[06:10:31] Sure.
[06:10:32] So you put Ferguson in a line running back through the 60s citizens, the hunger marches
[06:10:38] of the 30s in the 1900s, Charlie Strike and the Great Strike itself.
[06:10:42] Yeah.
[06:10:43] You're right that just as the Gatling gun stood ready to
[06:10:47] spray bullets into striking workers in 1877, a hyper
[06:10:51] militarized police force met Ferguson in 2014.
[06:10:54] However, with Ferguson still in the streets, police chief
[06:10:57] Sam Dotson put on white gloves and went to the veiled
[06:11:01] profit ball where activists once again snuck into that
[06:11:04] function 42 years after Gina Scott unmasked the Monsanto
[06:11:08] executive.
[06:11:09] What does that one night tell you about how much it
[06:11:12] actually moved in St. Louis between 1972 and 2014. And also where are we going this December?
[06:11:20] Now that we've established that they're still running.
[06:11:24] Yeah, that's a good question. That's a shout out to Keith Rose, who was one of the guys who got
[06:11:30] into the Vale of Profit ball and put pictures that year. Tim Dotson, the police chief,
[06:11:36] is invited to the ball and he's going and they also have a big SWAT team waiting,
[06:11:40] waiting like in the interroom as you go into the Hyatt.
[06:11:45] So as soon as the protesters showed up,
[06:11:48] they suddenly had all of these guys to shoo them away.
[06:11:52] So they kind of predicted, but this
[06:11:54] is kind of the theme of the book,
[06:11:56] is that every time there's these economic contradictions
[06:11:58] or we're looking at the power structure of the city,
[06:12:01] the veiled profit just becomes like the easy target
[06:12:03] of like he's metaphorically the thing that is wrong.
[06:12:07] He's like the bad man character
[06:12:10] that's gotta go. He's holding everybody back. And so, I don't know, where we're going now
[06:12:18] is like, I'm hoping that they will just take all of the stuff and give it to the History
[06:12:23] Museum, right? They've got a whole bunch of like, Bricka Brack and the uniform and all
[06:12:29] the stuff. Give it to the History Museum, be done with it. You want to have a Debbie
[06:12:33] Tompaul, just have the same Louis Debbie Tompaul. Just call it something else.
[06:12:36] So you want to neoliberalize it further?
[06:12:38] Yes, I want to potentially further vary the sign and signifier that the spirit of confederate
[06:12:45] and demicompo will probably still be on it.
[06:12:48] As far as the membership goes, given the multi-ethnic and very diverse capitalist class that we currently
[06:12:57] have in contemporary society, has the veiled prophet society also advanced in that direction?
[06:13:05] Are they letting Jewish people into the veiled prophet society?
[06:13:08] Yeah, they are.
[06:13:09] Are they letting in, well, of course,
[06:13:11] they're letting in Catholics, they're letting in Jewish people.
[06:13:13] Are they letting in brown people?
[06:13:16] They are.
[06:13:16] So there is like, since the civil rights era, in the 90s,
[06:13:22] they did this big push to have three black doctors.
[06:13:25] So the black bourgeois is invited to join,
[06:13:28] but nobody else to try to diversify.
[06:13:32] They have had Jewish members, but it's only select Jewish
[06:13:35] members they get to join.
[06:13:36] They have to be obviously extremely rich and influential.
[06:13:40] But this also happened.
[06:13:44] One of the most powerful guys that ever came out of the
[06:13:46] VIA profits was in charge of the FBI and the CIA and then
[06:13:50] Homeland Security.
[06:13:51] That was William Webster.
[06:13:53] And when he was being confirmed for the CIA, they had a
[06:13:56] Senate hearing about like, so you're in a bunch of clubs.
[06:14:00] They listed off a couple of them.
[06:14:02] Looks like those are only for white people.
[06:14:04] And he got a little hot under the collar.
[06:14:06] In the next year, they added those doctors to the ranks.
[06:14:11] So there's some diversity happening in,
[06:14:14] but they, I think it's hard to convince somebody
[06:14:17] who's not white to keep doing it.
[06:14:20] I think that's rare.
[06:14:22] But they're also just having, I think,
[06:14:24] trouble getting anybody to want to continue doing the thing.
[06:14:28] It's full of, it's real trash, it's real.
[06:14:31] can't recruit new blood into the organization.
[06:14:35] Just needs to wither away, that would be awful.
[06:14:38] So, Ferguson happens in the aftermath of Ferguson,
[06:14:41] a wave of progressive electoral victories
[06:14:44] produces a new electoral power from working class,
[06:14:46] organized for it, Bush is one of them.
[06:14:48] Sure.
[06:14:49] Tushara Jones, that is another,
[06:14:52] this triggers fierce counter-offensives
[06:14:55] from right wing state legislatures in corporate PACs,
[06:14:59] course, including my number one op, APAC, which delivered us
[06:15:02] Wesley Bell, and protected Wesley Bell as the incumbent
[06:15:08] this last election cycle.
[06:15:11] Drawing from your reporting in The Nation, which recently
[06:15:14] wrote a very sad article about me.
[06:15:17] I don't know if you're right.
[06:15:17] Oh, really?
[06:15:18] What is this?
[06:15:19] This guy compared me to Adolf Hitler.
[06:15:21] OK.
[06:15:22] In The Nation, the abolitionist magazine.
[06:15:25] That seems a little extravagant.
[06:15:28] Yeah.
[06:15:28] of the intercept, which has not compared me to Hitler yet.
[06:15:32] All right.
[06:15:33] I'm not repeating your own kind of thing,
[06:15:34] because we are going to need to really meet the capabilities
[06:15:37] here.
[06:15:37] Yeah.
[06:15:38] How does the ongoing red state war against blue cities
[06:15:42] operate to disarm urban socialist governance?
[06:15:45] And has your opinion changed at all
[06:15:47] since their respective losses?
[06:15:50] Yeah.
[06:15:51] I think that the Cory Bush thing really sucks.
[06:15:53] And it was a really hard race to run,
[06:15:58] because she had already been in office.
[06:16:01] Like that is a tremendous weakness when,
[06:16:04] visually in St. Louis, it's very difficult
[06:16:06] to get people in St. Louis.
[06:16:08] We're in the Rust Belt, baby.
[06:16:09] We have kind of seen capital evaporate.
[06:16:13] That happened for us like a hundred years ago.
[06:16:15] So there is a sense of malaise and it's like
[06:16:18] the machine just keeps running the way it's gonna run.
[06:16:21] And so to get people fired up to change something,
[06:16:24] we need 2014 as this huge, we're not going to take it anymore,
[06:16:29] we're going to do something about it.
[06:16:30] There's got to be, there has to be a change.
[06:16:34] And that's, for better or worse,
[06:16:36] I think actually for better change St. Louis
[06:16:39] in that the politics has become much more diverse.
[06:16:42] There's a whole lot of like really exciting things
[06:16:45] happening in the city.
[06:16:46] And there is also this hangover of like,
[06:16:50] the mayor is still kind of bought off
[06:16:52] by a guy who owns a construction company,
[06:16:55] and that's like a very failed profitery thing
[06:16:57] to have happen who lives in Chicago
[06:17:00] and doesn't even live in St. Louis.
[06:17:03] And so there's this perennial problem in the city
[06:17:05] that it is just dominated still by the capital class
[06:17:09] who are able to buy St. Louis politicians on the cheap.
[06:17:13] When you're operating in Missouri,
[06:17:14] you don't have to spend that much money.
[06:17:16] The feedback money was specifically insane
[06:17:18] because it's like, this is such small ball.
[06:17:21] Yeah, money cannon of that magnitude in a market like Missouri is it buys a lot of negative attention.
[06:17:30] Okay, let me ask you this, if we're going to talk about electoralism real quick.
[06:17:35] Do you feel like the impact of that previous, like the last two years,
[06:17:40] was still very much the reason why there was this like resilient negative association with Corey Bush?
[06:17:48] Like that's, I think it was the $10 million.
[06:17:52] Yeah, for Bell.
[06:17:53] Yeah, $10 million for Bell is,
[06:17:58] for chatters that understand this magnitude for Missouri,
[06:18:01] it's like, it's uncurtable.
[06:18:03] It's historic for America at the time.
[06:18:06] Sure.
[06:18:07] Right, I think it was the second most expensive.
[06:18:09] Yeah, they made an example of.
[06:18:11] Yeah, second most expensive race.
[06:18:12] Yeah.
[06:18:13] And the rule was Jamal Bowman.
[06:18:14] Yeah.
[06:18:15] But that's New York,
[06:18:16] so that's a more expensive TV market.
[06:18:18] $10 million gets you unlimited access in the Missouri market.
[06:18:25] And it can help you suppress other populations and just like distributing a bunch of information
[06:18:31] about how it doesn't pay to come out and vote or like there is no change possible.
[06:18:36] Or there's these four or five things about Cory Bush that she did in the office that
[06:18:40] we're going to pump up into this big thing.
[06:18:42] Yeah, do you feel like that it was the impact of that like I think it was like
[06:18:46] what, 17 to one?
[06:18:48] Yeah.
[06:18:49] Spending, or 26 to one.
[06:18:51] Spending.
[06:18:52] I think it was something that, yeah.
[06:18:53] Yeah, 26 to one, spending advantage that Wesley Bell had
[06:18:55] in the race two years prior that still was impactful
[06:18:59] because Saint Louis bucked the trend.
[06:19:01] Like Saint Louis was the only, out of all the races
[06:19:04] that I've been involved in,
[06:19:06] Cory Bush's race was the only one where like,
[06:19:09] their, the anti-APAD candidate was,
[06:19:14] was completely destroyed, unfortunately,
[06:19:17] by the pro-APAC incumbent, who was deliberately
[06:19:22] placed on that seat to be a loyal pro-Israel vote.
[06:19:26] And now Wesley Bell is going to be in the House Foreign Affairs
[06:19:28] Committee.
[06:19:29] Oh, good.
[06:19:29] Yeah.
[06:19:30] We just recently got an appointment
[06:19:31] by Kim Jeffries alongside Moskowitz, another one
[06:19:36] of my favorite politicians.
[06:19:37] Sick, yes.
[06:19:39] And Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.
[06:19:41] The unbiased brigade, yeah.
[06:19:43] That's great.
[06:19:44] Yeah, they gave us one with Mark Pecan.
[06:19:48] He was very funny.
[06:19:49] I keep Jeffery's like, here, you'll get one Mark Pecan.
[06:19:52] Sure.
[06:19:52] It's like kind of critical of Israel.
[06:19:55] OK.
[06:19:55] And then three of the most pro-Israel stuges, which is.
[06:19:59] It's nothing like the hint of the other in an otherwise.
[06:20:03] It's called Cosmize, baby.
[06:20:04] I love doing it.
[06:20:05] It's a good Ralph Ellison metaphor
[06:20:08] about that, an invisible man, where the white paint
[06:20:10] becomes even more white when you put a tiny drop of black
[06:20:14] into it.
[06:20:14] Yeah.
[06:20:15] Whiteness is multiplied.
[06:20:19] Yeah, I think that there's also the thing
[06:20:22] of like, Wesley Bell for white suburban in St. Louis voters,
[06:20:27] he is, we've looked to the trend in St. Louis
[06:20:30] still of like having all white politicians.
[06:20:33] That only happened like, I mean, Lacy Clay held that seat.
[06:20:38] He got there from the civil rights movement,
[06:20:40] basically. And so it's been a black seat historically. But if you have Leslie Bell in there, it's
[06:20:45] like, well, this is an African-American candidate who's progressive, and that's my politics.
[06:20:49] And so that gives you license to be like, well, Cory got a little out of her skis when
[06:20:54] she said that you shouldn't do the genocide. She authored the first ceasefire legislation.
[06:21:01] Or is it, I mean, I know that that was the driving ambition of APEC, but like,
[06:21:06] St. Louis voters, like, I doubt that they are pro-Israel to that degree.
[06:21:13] I don't think they care necessarily.
[06:21:14] I think it was more so the other stuff.
[06:21:16] That's why the attack ads for main pack at the time, two years prior, were all like,
[06:21:21] she's not playing ball with Joe Biden.
[06:21:24] And then it got very racialized as well, where they were like, she was presented as
[06:21:28] this violent, aggressive, unkempt black woman as opposed to Wesley Bell
[06:21:35] presented as this much more palatable sober yeah and that's his whole thing it's
[06:21:41] very quiet you're never making a headline until he calls the cops on this
[06:21:45] downhaul yes the one-time hall here had the cops rough up protesters yeah as you
[06:21:51] do I mean yeah I hate when I wish it like that doesn't get punished it's
[06:21:56] just so very frustrated I know especially that is like you know St. Louis and I
[06:22:03] I think St. Louis is also a,
[06:22:06] it's an example of a lot of America
[06:22:09] that is not in the Citadel of Capital
[06:22:11] in New York, Chicago, L.A.
[06:22:14] It's like there's all of these smaller cities,
[06:22:17] medium and mid-sized cities,
[06:22:19] where you feel like capital
[06:22:25] fleeing and draining out there first.
[06:22:28] So like there are these fissures
[06:22:29] that come through like St. Louis first,
[06:22:31] and then our scene elsewhere.
[06:22:34] This is like Phil Neil wrote this book called
[06:22:36] Hinterland, about how protests in our area
[06:22:39] is going to be suburban, because that's
[06:22:41] where all the poverty is now.
[06:22:43] And that's kind of like Ferguson is the first example
[06:22:46] of a suburban, urban uprising.
[06:22:49] That's not usually a thing.
[06:22:53] Yeah, I think that there's, St. Louis is electorate.
[06:22:59] Also, we'll just break your heart every time.
[06:23:01] And sometimes they don't do the most progressive thing.
[06:23:07] It happens.
[06:23:08] I got one last question for you.
[06:23:11] In your historical retrospectives
[06:23:13] on depression-era proletarian writers like Jack Conroy
[06:23:17] and the rebel poets, you argue that authentic working class
[06:23:21] literature and cultural production
[06:23:23] are necessary weapons for developing
[06:23:26] revolutionary consciousness.
[06:23:28] Speaking before socialist organizers here at this conference
[06:23:33] and before socialist couch potatoes in front of my audience,
[06:23:38] what role must socialist media investigate of history
[06:23:42] and independent publishing play in confronting the ruling
[06:23:45] class mythologies that govern the hard land?
[06:23:48] Yeah, well, that's excellent one.
[06:23:50] This is my favorite thing.
[06:23:52] It's not as salacious as the failed profit,
[06:23:55] but the proletarian literary movement in the 30s
[06:23:58] is like, it's this big upswell during the Great Depression
[06:24:02] of like we need people who go to work
[06:24:05] and are being immiserated
[06:24:07] and their firsthand experience of that immiseration
[06:24:10] needs to be channeled into our work.
[06:24:12] And so you need to create a system
[06:24:14] that can take the worker consciousness
[06:24:17] that occurs when you're being crushed like that
[06:24:19] when you're in an Amazon warehouse.
[06:24:22] Like the stories that happen there
[06:24:24] have to find their way into the mainstream culture somehow.
[06:24:28] And so the Prelaterian movement was
[06:24:30] about writing novels about poor people,
[06:24:32] poor people, to demonstrate their power
[06:24:35] and to have protagonists who, at the end,
[06:24:39] when there's an epiphany about having a romantic lover
[06:24:42] or something about politics, are a manhood or something,
[06:24:47] instead it's like a class awakening.
[06:24:49] That's the big thing that happens
[06:24:51] at the end of Jack Conroy's novels.
[06:24:53] What's the modern day equivalent of this now, TikToks?
[06:24:57] Boots are highlight for sure.
[06:24:58] Okay, I like that.
[06:25:00] I think like, but this is another weird thing
[06:25:03] of like the media environment, right?
[06:25:05] It does seem like we have a shillot of socialist,
[06:25:10] like artwork is being distributed.
[06:25:12] I see it all the time, just on the timeline,
[06:25:15] but it doesn't break through in the way
[06:25:17] that it used to in the last century.
[06:25:19] Do you think it's because people are not broken up?
[06:25:22] Do you think it's entrepreneurs?
[06:25:25] The idea that every working class individual in America
[06:25:29] is a temporarily embarrassed millionaire
[06:25:32] and not an exhausted and exploited proletarian?
[06:25:36] I'm sympathetic to that the treats are flowing
[06:25:40] just a little too good still.
[06:25:42] I think that that does explain some stuff,
[06:25:44] but I also think that I think there does need to be
[06:25:48] worker narratives and stories and worker artwork
[06:25:51] and socialist artwork, but that there also has to be,
[06:25:55] we need the right moment as well for it to hit.
[06:25:58] It doesn't like...
[06:26:00] No, but the reason why I say that is because
[06:26:02] it already exists, like you said.
[06:26:04] There is like great works of art that are socialist
[06:26:09] that talk about, I guess not necessarily talk
[06:26:11] about labor conditions really.
[06:26:13] I don't think there's any like,
[06:26:14] I would say somewhere like South Korea
[06:26:16] probably has a more robust history
[06:26:20] and contemporary art that revolves around class dynamics,
[06:26:25] how hellish of a nightmare it is to live in South Korea,
[06:26:28] things like that.
[06:26:30] Whereas in America, you don't really
[06:26:32] see that as much, with the exception of Boots Riley.
[06:26:35] Yeah, like I love Boots.
[06:26:36] They're such a perfect example of just like the transporter
[06:26:41] that gets you from the sweatshop labor
[06:26:43] to the fashion display.
[06:26:46] Like that's such an interesting metaphor.
[06:26:49] But even expressly, political works don't necessarily talk
[06:26:52] about the class dynamic all that much.
[06:26:54] I mean, I look at Eddington, I think about,
[06:26:56] which I prefer to one battle after another.
[06:27:00] Oh, really?
[06:27:00] Yeah, even though I really like one battle
[06:27:02] after another as well.
[06:27:03] But I think Eddington.
[06:27:04] I'm a big pinch on guy.
[06:27:05] And so that makes sense.
[06:27:08] From what I, I've never at pinch on,
[06:27:10] but I, from what I understand,
[06:27:11] no call in Cezanne is very faithful.
[06:27:13] Yes, yes.
[06:27:14] As faithful as one can be.
[06:27:15] No one does, also.
[06:27:16] But I will, but I will say this.
[06:27:17] No, I think Eddington was a better analysis overall.
[06:27:22] Yeah.
[06:27:23] Like it was more timely, especially with the data centers,
[06:27:26] especially with the conspiracy.
[06:27:27] The movement would be also the chaotic nature of it.
[06:27:30] That also resonates from like the COVID.
[06:27:33] Yeah.
[06:27:34] That was such a hard thing to represent also
[06:27:37] to this disordered thinking kind of politics.
[06:27:40] And also technically, kind of like
[06:27:42] World One, World Two, Point No,
[06:27:44] dynamics were heavily presented in it as well.
[06:27:46] So I think there's a lot more, like that one is like a fine one, it's going to age well.
[06:27:51] I think so.
[06:27:52] But once again, that's more political analysis, but it's not class.
[06:27:59] It doesn't really have a lot of class consciousness baked into it, it doesn't have necessarily
[06:28:05] neither one battle after another nor Eddington as they're two political works.
[06:28:10] They're not as class-oriented in their commentary, in their criticism as a parasite is, for
[06:28:16] Yeah, right. I think that's a really good example, too.
[06:28:20] I mean, the proletarian movement was,
[06:28:24] because there is a lot of class artwork being made, but still about the bourgeois.
[06:28:29] As soon as you start representing there, even if you're doing a big criticism,
[06:28:33] you're doing a takedown of the rich and how drunk on power and stupid they are,
[06:28:37] even if it's really good and really biting,
[06:28:40] it's not doing the revolutionary thing that they theorize in the 30s,
[06:28:44] which was to get working class.
[06:28:47] There's something about, when you hear the story
[06:28:49] of somebody being immiserated in,
[06:28:52] this actually happens to be a lot on the book tour,
[06:28:54] of people being like, St. Louis reminds me a lot
[06:28:57] of Louisville, it reminds me also a lot of Indianapolis
[06:29:00] and Milwaukee, it's just the same kind of thing.
[06:29:03] So when you have that sense of recognition,
[06:29:07] that's the thing that I think is the most dangerous,
[06:29:09] is that, oh, we're creating a network
[06:29:12] where we understand we all have similar goals, you know?
[06:29:17] Even if it's just like, we gotta make that healthcare free.
[06:29:20] It's like, I think having stories of the working class
[06:29:24] help you realize, oh, I actually need to fight for that
[06:29:27] because there's people who are just like me
[06:29:30] suffering even worse and they're just like my family.
[06:29:33] They remind me of my mom or uncle or whatever.
[06:29:37] So that was like the proletarian idea
[06:29:39] is you need to get that first hand.
[06:29:41] You need to start recognizing every subject of capital as like, ah, that's an extended
[06:29:47] member of my brotherhood, my family.
[06:29:50] The Anheuser-Busch, like the brewery story is, I think, the same story that exists everywhere
[06:29:59] in this country, everywhere that I've been at least.
[06:30:02] The downward trajectory, the deterioration as industry pulls out and is assumed by
[06:30:08] by international conglomerates, international capital.
[06:30:11] And even like the, I guess from the Chinese perspective,
[06:30:16] the national bourgeois are no longer a part
[06:30:19] of this national identity.
[06:30:21] They become this parasitic, faceless, lifeless force
[06:30:25] that can exist everywhere.
[06:30:32] What I feel is that when Trump says,
[06:30:36] make America great again,
[06:30:37] and they're talking about this era.
[06:30:40] I think the liberal analysis or the interpretation of that
[06:30:43] is off base where they'd say,
[06:30:44] oh, it's because they were racist back then
[06:30:46] and they wanna go back to that.
[06:30:47] And yes, they are racist.
[06:30:48] But I think like, Americans don't realize
[06:30:52] that they want the 60s post-World War II economy
[06:30:59] that was still like centrally planned.
[06:31:02] For sure.
[06:31:03] the welfare, the benefits, the GI bill,
[06:31:07] and all of those components.
[06:31:09] It was like somewhat of what,
[06:31:10] it was the closest we've ever been to
[06:31:12] a Nordic-style social democracy of many respects,
[06:31:15] with the exception of the, obviously, the social issues,
[06:31:19] which were very consequential, very important.
[06:31:21] But I feel like that's part of the reason
[06:31:24] why people can't identify with what actually made
[06:31:29] America great, and at that point in time.
[06:31:32] There was still a lot of problems with it.
[06:31:33] What made it great was that you could have one job
[06:31:37] at a factory that was producing shit,
[06:31:40] and you could have not one family,
[06:31:42] but a secret second family on the side.
[06:31:44] Which is crazy to me.
[06:31:45] I always think about that.
[06:31:46] I'm like, these motherfuckers had two families.
[06:31:48] They were paying two rents.
[06:31:49] They were paying, yeah, they had two families.
[06:31:51] They were running a house.
[06:31:52] They were running a house.
[06:31:53] Yeah, like Don Draper.
[06:31:55] Yeah.
[06:31:55] Don Draper had a house in Manhattan.
[06:31:57] Sure.
[06:31:58] And upstate.
[06:31:59] Yeah, pretty good.
[06:32:01] Yeah.
[06:32:02] piping. Absolutely. Let Americans fight. I mean that is like the most, there is a like a blind spot of just that nostalgia of like, well that first of all we had to do the
[06:32:13] World Wars in order to get together. But also we had to build that off of the 1930s worker movements, the CIO, all of the New Deal stuff. That is a tremendous, it's a much more socialist country in 1955.
[06:32:26] And there is just this cemented layer of a block on that.
[06:32:33] But it comes from the Red Scare.
[06:32:35] It comes from the fact that it's systemically not
[06:32:38] taught that labor has anything to do with the economic health
[06:32:42] of a country.
[06:32:43] It's mostly what a CEO thinks, if he
[06:32:46] wants to hit the up or down button.
[06:32:48] I don't know, yeah, I love the narratives of the pro-Ottarian writers because they did
[06:32:57] set the stage for all that stuff, and then they became, they got subsumed by the mid-century
[06:33:03] that nostalgia machine that invents the white-picked fence and stuff.
[06:33:08] It's interesting to go back to that 1930s moment because we're politically much closer
[06:33:13] to that than we are in the 1950s.
[06:33:16] We're in the prolonged period of the Gilded Age dragging on and on and on.
[06:33:21] Like there's no change and it keeps getting worse and we're like,
[06:33:25] kind of not sure how much more stretched we can become.
[06:33:28] But the treats economy is strong.
[06:33:30] Yeah, but the treats are now giving you massive diarrhea because it's like,
[06:33:34] you're not checking the lettuce and then like, you know,
[06:33:38] the treats economy is faltering a little.
[06:33:41] The airplane farm is like good and reliable as we want.
[06:33:45] Sure.
[06:33:45] Sure.
[06:33:46] But I think you're right that it's still.
[06:33:48] There's also one element of treats
[06:33:50] that I think we're not really putting into this equation,
[06:33:54] which is instead of one fucking weird clamp
[06:33:58] parade, you have nonstop TikTok and Twitter
[06:34:03] and everything that you would ever
[06:34:05] want to have access to.
[06:34:07] That's just like melting and rewiring your brain
[06:34:09] while also constantly entertaining you.
[06:34:12] Yeah, that's hyper addictive.
[06:34:14] And like that psychological warfare
[06:34:16] you were talking about, like rearranging things.
[06:34:18] You can do that way more effectively on the top.
[06:34:21] That's what you're talking about.
[06:34:22] I mean, there's another component of this that I don't touch.
[06:34:26] I don't know what your opinion on this is.
[06:34:28] I assume given that you're a writer,
[06:34:30] you probably hate it, but AI.
[06:34:32] Oh, I love it.
[06:34:33] I used to write the whole book.
[06:34:34] No, I'm just kidding.
[06:34:37] No, I am, look, I think I used to actually do one time
[06:34:41] stream when it first came out. And then that was it. I forgot that I had used it. Someone
[06:34:47] reminded me recently. They were like, because I was saying I'm a gold star, like anti-AI
[06:34:51] Luddite. They were like, well, you used it one time on stream.
[06:34:54] And I'm not ready to forget it.
[06:34:56] Well, I mean, it's fine. It was for the memes. But I'm like, I do worry about that as
[06:35:03] well. Because people, I mean, this is this sycophantic machine that is like supposed
[06:35:07] to be brilliant that can like pull data from anything.
[06:35:09] And it causes some people to kill themselves.
[06:35:13] Yeah, America has always invented new ways of becoming family annihilators.
[06:35:16] It's crazy.
[06:35:17] Yeah.
[06:35:18] For all of the family worshiping we do, it's like, I had this first hand that I teach at
[06:35:23] St. Louis University.
[06:35:24] I teach writing.
[06:35:25] And so I get a lot of college papers or college stuff that gets produced through AI.
[06:35:31] And it's like, but the policy that we've adapted now, which I think is a good one,
[06:35:36] It's just like, you're in college, you gotta figure out
[06:35:39] if you wanna use your brain or not.
[06:35:41] We're not gonna be like the AI cops.
[06:35:43] We're not gonna wanna come around
[06:35:45] and make sure or like get you out on anything.
[06:35:47] Wait, really?
[06:35:48] Yeah.
[06:35:49] Well, SLU students are also like, they're very smart
[06:35:52] and they're like, are remotivated.
[06:35:54] They wanna become good writers
[06:35:56] and they see utility in it.
[06:35:57] Yeah.
[06:35:58] Or at least I hope.
[06:36:00] But then, yeah.
[06:36:02] Then you also let them start doing some teamwork
[06:36:04] and you're overhearing one of the conversations
[06:36:07] and it's like a business student who's like,
[06:36:10] I'm gonna learn how to do AI the best.
[06:36:12] Once I get out of here, once I graduate,
[06:36:14] I'm doing AI like you wouldn't believe.
[06:36:17] Yeah, that's great.
[06:36:18] I love that.
[06:36:19] I'm pretty sure he'll do it.
[06:36:21] I love hearing that, and that makes me so excited
[06:36:24] about the future of this country
[06:36:26] and just the world in general.
[06:36:28] I feel like I'm such a fucking boomer, man.
[06:36:30] Like I'm 35.
[06:36:32] And whenever I think about the cognitive offloading
[06:36:36] that's taking place for Gen Z, Gen Alpha,
[06:36:39] and how much of the mental tasks
[06:36:43] that you would previously deploy on your own,
[06:36:47] should you just delegate it over to this machine
[06:36:50] that is oftentimes giving you wrong answers,
[06:36:53] but very convincing.
[06:36:54] Very convincing, right?
[06:36:55] And it's, oh God.
[06:36:57] And then you think about, have you
[06:37:01] heard about Brad Parscale's operation?
[06:37:03] He had the recently registered as a foreign agent
[06:37:05] for the Israeli state because he's deployed $50 million
[06:37:11] from the Israeli government in the direction
[06:37:13] of creating these SEO websites for all the AI chatbots
[06:37:18] to crawl on?
[06:37:19] Cool.
[06:37:19] That's like pro-Israel.
[06:37:21] Yeah, to generate pro-Israel outcomes.
[06:37:24] Sure.
[06:37:24] So now, when you actually asked
[06:37:26] about like Israel related questions,
[06:37:28] chatGVT is like much more favorable
[06:37:30] to how there is no genocide
[06:37:32] or that the famine is fake or whatever, right?
[06:37:34] Like so...
[06:37:35] The price tag on that was $50 million.
[06:37:37] Yeah, well it's a much larger operational world.
[06:37:40] $50 million is one component of it
[06:37:42] that specifically was designed for like SEO,
[06:37:45] you know, SEO websites built
[06:37:47] around manipulating AI outcomes.
[06:37:49] Yeah.
[06:37:50] So that kind of stuff also worries me as well
[06:37:53] because it's not even just about Israel,
[06:37:55] Okay, what's stopping Nabisco from doing the same to be like yeah, actually
[06:38:00] Oreos are the healthiest option. I mean
[06:38:03] I mean you're like well my my best friend a I told me the Oreos are the healthiest option
[06:38:07] I should get them only I'm pretty sure it's Fanto or will the the the accuracy
[06:38:13] Gatorade that they pour on the plants Brando. Oh
[06:38:16] What plants me?
[06:38:18] That's very operative
[06:38:19] I think, but it's also like the moment that I really genuinely get afraid of is
[06:38:26] Let's say in the near to medium-range future. We're about to pass universal health care
[06:38:32] It's going through the house and Senate and then like there's a Joe Lieberman kind of there
[06:38:38] Who wants to like nuke it and like you could tip opinions just using the chatbot if not to influence
[06:38:45] voters to just the members of Congress themselves.
[06:38:49] Getting them tailored.
[06:38:51] So they're chatbots.
[06:38:52] They're there.
[06:38:53] Algorithms.
[06:38:54] Yeah.
[06:38:55] Yeah, it's a terrifying reality that we live in.
[06:38:59] Yeah, which means the movement has to be overwhelming.
[06:39:02] You have to have it.
[06:39:04] You got to be safe.
[06:39:06] Yeah.
[06:39:07] I appreciate it, everybody.
[06:39:08] Thank you so much.
[06:39:09] Thanks for having me.
[06:39:11] Where can people find the book?
[06:39:13] You can get it at Haymarket Books, their websites.
[06:39:18] If you want to get a signed copy, you
[06:39:20] can go through Leviathan Books in St. Louis.
[06:39:22] You gave them on our.
[06:39:24] I don't know if we signed it.
[06:39:27] Yeah, you have a rare ARC.
[06:39:28] Yeah.
[06:39:29] It's got all of the hood and the stakes in it
[06:39:31] that we fixed at the last minute.
[06:39:32] Yeah.
[06:39:33] That's a good one.
[06:39:34] I don't know if we signed it.
[06:39:35] I have another one right here, actually.
[06:39:37] Did you sign this one?
[06:39:38] I'll send it.
[06:39:39] OK.
[06:39:39] I'll have to sign one finally.
[06:39:41] It's got pictures in it.
[06:39:43] It's scary pictures.
[06:39:46] It's got scary pictures in it.
[06:39:47] Well, pretty interesting.
[06:39:53] A little bit of racism in a cartoon form.
[06:39:55] Yeah.
[06:39:56] Yeah.
[06:39:58] My favorite form of racism in a cartoon form.
[06:40:01] It's a dying art.
[06:40:02] Yeah.
[06:40:02] I get so excited.
[06:40:04] Yeah.
[06:40:04] I get so excited.
[06:40:05] He still hasn't drawn me in.
[06:40:06] But like, political cartoons, boomers have started
[06:40:10] because I'm all over the news.
[06:40:11] so the viewers were like, oh, this guy fucking sucks.
[06:40:14] So they started drawing me in political cartoons.
[06:40:18] And I get so excited because it was so formative
[06:40:20] in my development.
[06:40:21] Like, I first got interested in politics
[06:40:25] because I would read this political satire magazine
[06:40:27] in Turkey when I was growing up.
[06:40:29] And so, and also like my first important lesson
[06:40:33] about like political persecution came from
[06:40:36] out of the on prosecuting a cartoonist
[06:40:40] who had drawn him in an unorthodox way.
[06:40:42] And that's when I was like, damn, it's free speech shit.
[06:40:44] Like we should get that here in Turkey,
[06:40:46] which we didn't and still don't.
[06:40:48] Sure.
[06:40:49] But that's when I was like, this sucks.
[06:40:52] Yeah.
[06:40:52] I don't like that.
[06:40:53] I was like very young.
[06:40:54] Absolutely.
[06:40:55] And so when I see this like dying art,
[06:40:58] these boomers like draw me in these ways
[06:41:01] where I'm like, I'm weighing down the Opelosa campaign.
[06:41:03] I'm like, this is super stuff.
[06:41:05] Yeah.
[06:41:06] I love it.
[06:41:07] It's an honor.
[06:41:08] I mean, he's eventually going to draw you.
[06:41:10] I hope so.
[06:41:11] Would you like to get a frame?
[06:41:12] Yes.
[06:41:13] I want to get all of the cartoons
[06:41:15] that they've drawn so far in this media frenzy framed up.
[06:41:18] That has got to feel a little victorious to just be like,
[06:41:22] yeah, I got these guys so mad they started
[06:41:24] doing doodles of me.
[06:41:27] They're strange.
[06:41:29] My mom is texting me in this conversation saying,
[06:41:34] Congress was wildly opposed to housing
[06:41:36] and claimed that it was socialism and communism
[06:41:37] the post-World War II. Yes, it's signed. You have the paper back. You signed the original.
[06:41:44] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. To commemorate your St. Louis visit. Yeah. It was a great time. I enjoyed it.
[06:41:51] Yeah. You got to come back and sample some of the local cuisine some more. We're giving
[06:41:55] a Dina again. That was really fun. I love the good Palestinian food in St. Louis, Missouri.
[06:42:01] Who would have thought? It's not that shocking. It's American. Very weirdly diverse.
[06:42:07] There's a tons of, yeah, there's a huge Bosnian population in the, a huge Afghan population.
[06:42:13] It's crazy.
[06:42:15] Alright, well thank you so much for coming on.
[06:42:17] Thank you very much.
[06:42:18] And I will be back tomorrow, everybody.
[06:42:21] And you can find the book at haymarketbooks.org.
[06:42:26] Or they.com, I can't remember now.
[06:42:28] It's the .org.
[06:42:29] Yeah.
[06:42:30] Oh yeah.
[06:42:31] Yeah, Eric made the same mistake yesterday.
[06:42:33] Anyway, peace everybody. Love you all and I will see you.