⚠️ VOD is unavailable.
xaryu VODs on twitchBroadcasts 30+ hours are truncated. View the Raw Transcript VTT for the full version.
Wow, that's another let's speak.
I'm going to use the same thing as the other one.
Blue's come high.
I am so exited to jump in, I never got to 60 on CLA because my
Now I can fully play in no life.
See ya, bus home.
Good morning, chats!
Good morning, chats!
Good morning, chats!
Good morning, guys!
We are back!
We are back, we are back, oh my gosh, we're back.
What is going on, holy crap, what a weekend, what a weekend.
Okay, we have a lot to talk about, oh my gosh, we have a lot to talk about, yep, yep, yep,
thanks for the prom brother, oh my gosh, we have a lot to talk about, white, white, white
Glint rather thanks for the five gifted I can't believe you lied to us I don't
know like guys what do you mean lied I what do you mean by lied I don't know
what you mean by lied now that I can say stuff guys yes we couldn't say
anything but now we can yes we knew it was happening there's a lot we didn't
know like for example I didn't know it was called wow forever so that was like
insane I actually actually don't really know if I like the name but we can cover
that later it's names are hard it's just a name yeah I don't know it's called
about forever. Um, I will get up, we'll get into all that in a second. Dude, I need to
go easy on my voice. I lost my voice yesterday. I actually didn't stream yesterday. Dude, there's
so much to talk about. Gotta take some deep breaths here. I need to go easy on my voice
today. Guys, I lost my voice yesterday. Dude, the airport yesterday, my flight was delayed
And then it was delayed.
It was delayed and then it was delayed again.
And then I got on my airplane and we took off and everything was fine.
And then there was weather so we couldn't land.
So we just started doing circles in the air for 30 minutes to wait for the weather.
And then we started running out of fuel.
So we had to turn back around and land at another airport because we ran out of fuel.
And then we we landed at the airport to get more fuel and then they needed to see if we could fly back or if we're just going to stay at that airport.
Then they decided we can fly back, which was great. And we have an entire airplane of people.
And then when we're all there ready to take off, there was a technical issue with the plane. So we had to get a mechanic on it.
So then we had another delay, while we're all on the plane,
except there's no water to give everyone because they ran out of water.
So there's no water, no snacks.
We're in the runway and there's a mechanic on the plane.
And then the mechanic needed to have another mechanic come help him and check it out and this and that.
And then finally the airplane gets approved.
So then we fly back and then we land through the weather, which was a crazy landing
And then we get in last night and
Like all of this I'm trying to message Shannon because Shannon's waiting at the airport with Kai and
Then like finally we get home and like it's like it's like or I finally get to the airport
It's like 7 p.m. I've been flying like it's supposed to be a one-hour flight. It turns into a five-hour flight
Holy crap. Anyway, we got home last night and I was so happy to get home and sleep in my own bed.
Holy crap, my chair is so comfortable. Dude, my stream set, dude, it's good to be home. Oh my gosh,
yeah, it feels really nice. Okay, we have some stuff to talk about. Holy crap. Jeff Bezos of
the $5 tip. Thank you. Pluto with the Prime. Star with the Prime. Oz with the Tier 1. Kenny
with the T1, drafts with a prime.
OK.
OK, a couple things to talk about first.
I don't even know what to talk about first.
What do I talk about first?
You knew everything.
OK, let's talk about that first.
One, I did not know everything.
I probably know less than you guys.
I knew less than you guys probably think.
We cannot get into the specifics of the trip,
but I can say Blizzard, yes, did invite us out there
to check out the game.
We did, we could give them feedback and stuff like that.
Obviously, there's some stuff that they could say yes to,
or some stuff they could just say absolutely no to.
So let's just leave it there.
But yeah, we had a chance to play the game
and give them feedback.
The game that we played was different, of course.
Like, obviously, they worked on it.
In terms of specifics, I can't really
say much more than that.
think. But yes, that is true. What is also true is we didn't know it was called Wow Forever.
I we have never seen the cinematic. So that cinematic when it was playing was the first time
we saw it. And in terms of a lot of the specifics, like every a lot of stuff change. So a lot of
for really cool stuff. So, trying to think what else. Trying to think what else. Trying
to think what else. Okay. Gosh. All right. So we're going to go into what I like, what
I don't like what I don't know if I like all these different things um holy crap
holy crap holy crap that crazy dual pc setup dual pc streaming sucks it's awful one pc setup
way better way better um what do you know about pvp okay I actually can say some stuff about pvp
I made sure I could.
There is no arenas.
We know that.
So no arenas in WoW forever.
They want to keep a classic feeling.
They don't want it to feel modern.
Wow, a lot of you guys are saying W.
Like, I actually like that.
But I'm surprised you guys are spamming W,
because like, I like that.
But it's a very controversial opinion
that I have that arenas shouldn't be in WoW forever.
But yes, no arenas.
That is confirmed.
having said that stuff could always change maybe they added down the road who knows in terms of there was a slide that basically says like seasonal
PVP we're going to learn more about that but essentially they're making
I'm trying to think how to say this, I believe what's happening is the restructuring the
ranking system to be this like almost like seasonal ranking experience so that you can
feel like okay let's go hard and push and get here and then do it again and again and
again and again versus doing it once and never doing it again kind of a thing so we'll learn
more about that.
What else can I say?
World buffs.
I got the permission to say, yes guys, there is no world buffs.
And wow, forever.
I need to keep it, keep it, keep it quiet on my voice because I lost my voice yesterday.
Yes, everyone should be very happy with that one.
That's not very controversial.
I don't think or not nearly as controversial as the arena stuff.
No world buffs.
So okay, so there are world buffs.
They just don't work in raids.
There are world buffs, but they don't work in raids.
So effectively no world buffs, which I am so, so, so happy about.
So happy about.
So happy about.
Did I meet Shiba?
Yes, it was awesome, man.
Sweet sweet sweet.
Sweet sweet sweet.
What else?
Did he mention the UI yet?
No, but I think you guys know how I feel about the UI.
It is no secret that I do not like the retail UI.
If nothing changes, I am going to use an add-on.
The UI is not my favorite.
I don't like it.
I'll use a UI add-on.
I would really like Blizzard to put in the classic UI.
I have told you guys that for as long as I can remember,
I've also told Blizzard that.
So I would like the classic UI in the game on a toggle.
If it doesn't happen, I'm using an add-on.
Add-on restrictions.
No, UI add-ons are fine.
Week auras are fine.
They're not being touched, as far as I know.
What about arena?
There's no arena.
What else? What else? What else? Oh my gosh. Any info on what happens to TBC servers?
No, but we should be getting that info soon. I don't know. I don't know either. I actually
asked, uh, actually, I actually asked John Blizzard himself. Um, I was like, so what's
happening to TBC and mop because we never heard anything. And I know a lot of people
are wondering. So what's going on? And they said, you guys will find out soon. So they're
going to let us know soon. So we'll see. That's, that's all I know. Ah, dual spec. Yes, dual
Specs in the game.
Mage spec, um, Mage spec, I think Arcane's fun and Frost is fun, Fire needs to rework,
straight up, needs some work.
Mage is there in a path spot of Frost's Fire Pulse in the game, I actually like Frost's
Fire Bolt, but it sucks, it needs buffs or something.
Arcane's too strong though, Arcane needs nerfs.
Okay, I want to talk about the pricing.
I actually have a bone to pick with some of you guys.
Alright, let's use some logic here.
on this game, we talked about the monetization model. By the way, I didn't know about the
pricing until this, I didn't know what it was going to be. Okay, so people using their
brains are saying W pricing. Okay, there's a lot of people that are upset about the
pricing. And it's really because you haven't thought about it, I think the game itself
has no box price. It's just a sub. None of us thought that would happen. The way they're
funding it is with the $30 addition to then get the sky born race. Now I will say this,
it's way cheaper than any of us thought. We all thought $59.99 bucks price, right? It's
free with a sub, which is way cheaper than any of us predicted, including myself. I thought
for sure they'd go more. And please don't defend it. It's way, way, way cheaper than
any of us thought. So it's not defending it. It's it's objectively cheaper than any of us thought.
The optics are bad. If the box price was $29.99, would the optics be better?
I almost feel like they would. I feel like less people would be mad if it was just a $30 box price
even though it's a worse deal. So it's just bad optics. I swear it's just bad optics. I
I swear it's actually the best deal ever.
You can literally play for 15 bucks,
but people are complaining because they don't get it.
It's just people are stupid, kinda.
Yeah, I mean, it's not even that people are stupid,
it's just that people haven't thought about it
and it's bad optics.
Cause I'm gonna be honest,
when I first heard the race was 30 bucks,
my knee jerk reaction was, what?
That sucks.
And then I was like, well, how much is the box price?
And people were like, oh, it's free with a sub.
And I'm like, oh, oh, that changes everything.
So anyway, the pricing is way better than any of us thought.
Way better than any of us thought.
I thought for sure 60 bucks box price.
Okay, so there's that.
Oh, I can also say this.
Let me get my wording right here, one second.
Let me get my wording right.
Let me get my wording right.
Let me get my wording right
Let me get my wording right
Blizzard has confirmed there is no plans
For a wow token or level boosts in wow forever
there we go there we go I thought like you got I was like for sure thinking
they're doing a wow token there's gonna be level boost this and that I'm so
happy with that that is awesome do they do it down the road hopefully not but
like like for now no token level boost and wow like that's the plan that's the
plan. So that's cool. That's cool. I like that. Um, okay, we covered world buffs, we
covered a wow token, we covered level boosts, we covered the pricing. Okay, let's talk
Skyborne. Um, I want this to be more of an open discussion. Skyborne is interesting.
Skyborne is one of those things that a lot of people dislike.
And I wanna understand more as to why,
because I actually don't care that much.
Okay, let me first preface this by saying,
my preference is high elf.
If I was in charge, the one race I would add is high elf.
And I was reading a bunch of forums,
high elf to alliance and forsaken elf to horde,
like Sylvanas, that would be absolute perfection.
That would be sick, like that would be my preference.
Okay, that would be dope.
Okay, having said that,
I don't hate Skyborne.
Skyborne is a high elf variant in the lore.
Now people might cringe and say,
well, they just made up the lore.
To that I have to say, I'm a little confused.
All of the lore is made up.
Actually, let's bring out the notepad here.
Okay.
All lures made up.
So let me first start off by saying this.
They told us that the world does not affect.
Is it effect or affect?
Gosh, I'm so bad at this one.
The world does not change.
Let's just use the word change.
The retail lore.
So, in other words, retconning does not exist.
If something happens in this world, it does not change what already happened outside of this world.
Retconning does not exist. So there seems to be some confusion here.
This is the first and foremost part of this.
Retconning does not exist yet. No, there's no yet.
Permanently, this world is a different timeline, it's a different, it's based on
a certain point in wow history, but it's going in its own direction. So retconning does anything
that happens here, does not affect warcraft lore. Are we all on the same page there?
Can everyone just type one if you understand what I just said? Because this is the, is very
important. This is very important for the lore nerds out there. Okay, so I heard people
complaining on random posts, this and that, that, oh, they're retconning, and it's like,
you don't understand what you're saying. There's retconning doesn't exist in this world at
all. It's not canon, that's right. Okay, so, cool. This is very important to understand.
important to understand. Okay. Since this is a world that that exists
alongside the Warcraft floor, it's not actually the Warcraft floor. It gives them creative
freedom to then do stuff. Right. That was one of the pillars of like that was one of
the big conversations in one of those panels, right? It's like, okay, now we can actually
have creative freedom. Since they have creative freedom, they had Metz and draw up the high
elf into Sky Elf, not Sky Elf, Skyborn lore. Since the world doesn't change the retail
lore and since they have creative freedom to do stuff, Metz and himself then said, let's
do stuff, which is what originally World of Warcraft was.
You built the lore.
Are we also following this?
You built the lore.
So Metzen now builds the Skyborne lore from Hylds.
So from there, now you have the Skyborne.
So in my mind, my preference is high-elf and forsaken-elf, because that would have just
been cooler.
But I guess I'm struggling to understand the complete hatred for Skyborne, versus, oh, it
could have been cooler.
Because I think, yes, it could have been cooler.
It could have been high-elf, forsaken-elf.
That would have been sick.
But for me, Skyborne is fine.
And so everyone seems to think that the blue sucks.
Are we all kind of on the same page that the blue is the thing that a lot of people just
they just don't like blue?
Okay, interesting.
Okay.
Um, I am very biased here because I just really like elves.
So for me, it's like, I'm just happy we got a new elf.
Like I think it's sick, but I will say, I think that that high elf would have been would
have been even sicker.
And Forsaken Elf would have been really, really, really, really sick too.
Okay, so we talked about pricing.
We talked about Skyborne a little bit.
We talked about tokens, level boosts.
We talked about the name.
Oh gosh, there's so much to talk about guys.
Oh my gosh.
There's a pay to win mount.
Okay, so pay to win is buying character progression.
Is there actual, is it like a mount that you can get early?
Is it, you know, Gildren thinks with a Prime?
I'm confused on what you guys mean by how is that pay to win?
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to understand.
No there isn't.
So pay to win a pay to win mount would basically be if you pay, you could get a mount at level
Whereas if you don't pay you'd have to wait till 40 or something like that, or I guess it's free if it's free
It saves ADG not really pay to win
Okay, and that's for like a heroic condition I would assume I actually haven't seen that
Cosmetics only yeah, it saves saves ADG
So it's kind of like buying ADG at 40 or something that's why people are upset. Oh
Oh, gosh. There's a lot of stuff I like. And there are things that I don't like. There
really are. Talk servers, please. Okay, servers. Let's talk servers. Let's talk servers. It's
20G, not 80. Oh, that's true, because you still need the skill, maybe. Okay, that's fair
enough. Okay, let's talk servers. The way servers are working is there's no more servers.
There's rule sets. It's actually pretty cool. It's actually pretty cool. So right now, the
way it works is you kind of just, you try to pick a server, but if your friends aren't
on that server, gg's. There's rule sets. So you can, you log in. Everyone's, there's
just one big, there's no more servers,
just one big wow, okay, wow forever.
You just, you play, you pick wow forever.
Less choices of like, okay, this server, this and that,
it's just wow forever, you play.
And but it's gonna ask you on a character creation,
do you want PvE, PvP, RP or hardcore?
Boom, you pick one and then you log in.
From there, I believe that people that you can interact with
will be, like if you want to do a dungeon or a raid,
You're playing with people on your same rule set.
So, so there we go.
What am I picking?
PvP.
Got my sod peeled back together?
W.
No hardcore on release?
Yeah, that'll be later.
Can you ever change it?
I don't think you can.
Regions, yes, there are still regions.
Well, I try hardcore eventually later, yes.
What about camping?
Camping is a bit confusing,
But from what I understand, it basically gives a way
for people to come together and get some buffs
similar to a food buff.
Horde, I'll probably main Alliance.
No server sucks, I think it's great.
But I wanna see how it feels in practice.
Cause you have theory and then you have
how it actually feels.
What they've told us is there's new technology
that makes it to where you're gonna see the same people
time and time again.
We'll see how that feels.
It's, yeah, you can tell us that,
but how is it gonna feel when you're playing the game?
Is it gonna feel like a small server experience
or can it feel like this nice,
this nice tight-knit group or not?
We'll see, I don't know.
It's something we'll have to figure it out.
I'll feel it out rather.
What's up, sorry, what up, Jay?
Self-found?
Uh, there's no self-found that I know of, but I would like a self-found button, that'd
be sick.
Juan, thanks for the prune.
Mm-mm.
All right.
Um, goodness gracious, brother.
I feel like I feel like I want to just get into stuff that I like and don't like.
You know what I mean?
Like that like right up there's just so much to just so much to get down and talk about.
Um, there's things that I like.
What I like.
What I don't like, like just right away.
There's there's things that I that I like and don't like.
a lot of good decisions were made.
There's some stuff that it's like, all right,
like we still need some work, of course, you know,
legacy points.
Legacy points are interesting.
We'll get more into that in a little bit.
I actually think they're kind of a cool idea.
There's some points that I think are too strong
and should be reworked or removed.
The big one that I don't like
is the talent points starting at level five.
That's too strong for a legacy point.
that needs to be changed or cutted.
Like, yeah, I'll probably just straight up, yeah.
Just remove that one.
I think that one's bad.
Other ones that are more like Flavor
or a central small difference,
but it feels good to unlock,
or a reasons to level alts, awesome, cool.
Challenge modes for hardcore, cool.
Reasons to level alts, cool.
Like, I like the idea,
but I don't like talent points being at five.
Like, that's too strong.
Can you have both factions on a PvP world?
I don't want to confirm anything because I actually don't know.
But my guess is that if there's no surfers, the question then becomes can you have both
factions on an account because there's no surfers?
And the answer to that would probably be yes, you can have a undead mage on a PvP ruleset
because there's no servers and then an alliance hunter on the same PvP ruleset.
I actually don't know, so don't quote me on that.
But from how I'm understanding it, since there's no realms, it would only make sense.
The question becomes, can I have Alliance Nord on the same accounts?
And I would assume yes.
I would assume yes, to be honest.
So don't quote me on that, but I would assume yes.
Ask, I can't actually ask.
Give me a sec.
That is a, that actually is a very good question.
I would assume yes though.
Give me a second here guys. I'm trying to figure out the person to ask here
Okay, I'll see if I get an answer on that.
Called John Blizzard.
Yo, guys, actually I have some shout outs.
First of all, massive shout out to John from Blizzard.
No troll, his name is actually John, he's John Blizzard.
Kyle from Blizzard, actually I don't know if Kyle works at Blizzard or if he works just
the event.
I think he was at Blizzard, I don't know.
Kyle and Alex holy crap they carry my weekend Alex John and Kyle were like my guys um
Additionally shout out to all of you guys that I met holy crap. Thanks for coming up and saying hi. That was wild
Guys, that was wild guys. That was wild. I cannot believe how many people were there saying I actually couldn't believe it
I legit couldn't believe it. It was it was nuts. I
I met Pops guys. I met everyone that I wanted to see besides grace for days
Grace for days. I had a list of people I wanted to say hi to grace for days was the only person
I didn't get to set say hi to
She bait yeah, everyone everyone literally everyone except
Grace
Swiftie yes, literally yes to everyone except grace. I
Saw I saw every single person that you guys are saying. Yeah bean choker then pika
Like everyone, yes.
Tyler won, Soda, yes.
Cargos, Max, yes, Ziko, yes, Ben, yes, everyone.
I saw everyone except Grace.
So it was good, it's good.
Shroud, I actually met Shroud on the stream,
you guys saw that as my first time getting shrouded.
And then Fritz, Fritz was there.
Sony didn't go, Pashir didn't go.
I was kind of sad about that.
Show back. Yeah. Um, okay. Okay. Okay. I know a lot of you are classic
Gandy's and well forever and ease. I've got to say, can we just talk a WC for a second?
If you guys watched the watch party we did on the couch with peekaboo and we were kind
of casting it there or like reacting to it there. Oh my gosh. Congratulations to Calvish
man and team gators back they did it. All right quick story time quick quick
story time quick story time quick story time quick story time I talked to
Calvish after he won and I was just chatting with him and he said did you
know how I got into PvP and I was like no what's up and he said he watched one of
my videos in Legion on YouTube it came up on his recommended and he thought it
looked fun so he started playing because of my video and I was like trying to not
cry like break down I was like oh my gosh this guy like literally on the BlizzCon
champion stage was inspired to play from a video we put out ten years ago what
the heck it was nuts so we log in or you know he logs in starts playing
whatever. And he's like 12, like 10, 11, 12, like he's very young. And he ends up getting gladiator
when he's like 12. Um, and one of his friends sends me a message saying, Hey, I have a friend. His name
is Calvish. He's a gladiator. He's not ranked one yet. But when you play with him, he's really good.
And I don't know why I saw this message. He said he's like a big fan. He wants to play. And I was like,
Of course, yeah, let's let's hit it up. I was streaming one day and I played with him on stream and
He was a rank one player back then he was just a glad and I we played one session
And I was like holy crap man, and he was telling me this story
This was how Calvish telling me the story and he goes like and he goes you told me something
he said
You told me I had a lot of promise and if I stuck to it I
I would you know I could go very far. I told him that I guess like 10 years ago or something like eight years
He I don't know and I guess it stuck with him and he kept playing and he ended up getting ranked one
He ended up making a team and they didn't do very well for a while
And he stuck with it
He made another team another team and then he played with Cubsie literal Cubsie as his healer
And then they want everything this year and they went all the way and they took it and to see him on that stage
after all of that
was the coolest thing, man, to see him on that stage holding the trophy after this entire story was just like,
it was so cool. It was so cool. Like, the feeling was just so cool, man.
So anyway, it was a cool story. Congratulations to Calvish and team.
Cubsie days whiz K
It was uh
Yeah, an absolute awesome awesome moment
Okay, that's that story that's that story
Um
Are the SD models actually the old models yes from what I can tell yeah
Likes and dislikes now. Okay. Um, I mean, I honestly haven't flushed all of this out.
So I'm going to be kind of thinking about this live as I'm typing these things out.
Okay. What I like, what I don't like, uh, what I, what, what, what's like the, it's
like, I don't know. It's like, I'm, I'm, I don't know, like so, so about, you know,
It's like, eh, eh, eh, you know, like it could have been better,
it could have been worse, you know, indifferent, sure.
That's a much better word than so-so, fine.
Okay.
Um, should we start negative first or did we start positive first?
Or did we start indifferent first?
Goodness gracious.
There's a lot, there's a lot here.
Okay.
What I like, the big stuff, they got right.
No flying, um, you know, plastic wow universe, right? Um, you know, level 60 cap forever.
Um, you know, it's, it's not ending, right? Like it's giving us content, uh, continual content
updates. It's what we wanted, right? Continual content updates. Like the game, the structure
The structure of the game itself is what I like.
I'm going to add more to that for a second.
Like I said, I'm thinking through this as I'm typing.
What I don't like, I'm just going to straight up say it, guys.
Retail UI.
Please, Blizzard, give us a toggle to go to classic.
Like, yeah, that's the biggest one for me.
The second biggest one that I don't like is energy manatecks.
Need to return.
Like right now it's smooth, there's no ticks.
Like the tick system needs to return
in the retail UI needs to go
or at least a toggle to the classic one.
These are probably the two biggest things
of what I don't like.
What I do like,
goodness gracious,
$15 to play sub only is crazy.
Like, yeah, enough people aren't talking about this.
I for sure thought it was gonna be a $59.99 box price.
It's literally a sub to play, 30 bucks
if you wanna get the new raise, but you don't have to.
That is crazy.
That is actually crazy.
I thought for sure it would be more than that.
And then no WoW token plus boosts is insane as well.
No WoW token, no boosts, like they could have been
so much greedier with this, I'm shocked, I'm shocked.
Okay, what else?
What I'm indifferent about, let's start adding to this list.
Like Skyborne, like I already covered this in depth
on another notepad, but Skyborne,
I would have preferred High Elf
plus Forsaken Hylph, or yeah, Forsaken Hylph.
Like that, or just Forsaken Elf, I guess.
That would have been so cool.
It would have been even cooler,
but I actually don't hate Skyborne,
and I know a lot of you guys do,
but I'm more indifferent.
Having said that, I do just love elves.
Like, so I'm really happy that it's an elf.
Like, I think they're cool,
but it could have been even cooler.
So I'm a little indifferent about that.
Okay, what else what else I need some ideas here
Transmog, okay, I'm indifferent like I trans mug toggleable
Personally, I think it's better out all together
But at least I can toggle off I
I don't think Transmog should exist period, but I appreciate the toggle.
Once again, I don't think the retail UI should exist period, but I would be fine with the
toggle.
The toggle helps me.
Oh, what I like.
Goodness gracious.
SD character models.
Are you kidding me?
Are you kidding me?
That's amazing.
SD character model toggle, W.
Um, realm-less, yeah, no realms is a massive W.
Um, Barber, if there actually is a Barber, that's, I don't like that.
I haven't seen that, but if that it actually is, why, um, yeah, I can explain why.
So back in older versions of WoW, I always really enjoyed when you're running around
like Iron Forge and you saw, I don't know, like a little gnome run by with the green
pigtails and you knew that guy based on his name and his style of what his character looks
like and you would see him time and time again and be like, that's the little guy with the
green pigtails and you became this character in this world, right?
Once you can start changing all of these things, it kind of starts to lose that identity.
Now, Barber is worse if you can change, worse if you can change gender and like, I guess
that's the big one.
Like if once you go male-female and you start changing like more and more, and better if
it's just like haircuts, if it's just haircuts.
But still, I don't like it in general, right?
So yeah, it's pretty much that.
What I'm indifferent about, what I like, okay, we need more ideas here.
Camping, okay, hold on, legacy system.
Okay, so I like the legacy system, but there's things that I would change.
So legacy system in general, I like.
The legacy system gives you reasons to level alts, and it gives you something to kind of
look forward to unlock.
But what I don't like is the legacy system talent point at level five.
It's just two OP, and it's going to make like if you have five alts and you have talent
points at level five when you're in the deadlines, you're going to be way stronger with five extra
talent points than someone who hasn't done that. To such a degree that if you're playing
DPS, the tank might not be able to keep threat on you. It just kind of breaks the game. I
don't think it's necessary. It's just too much. I would honestly just say, remove it.
Just remove it. I actually will probably give them that feedback. Like just remove it. Like
I just, it's just too good.
Okay.
Okay.
What else?
What else?
First, last name?
I'm in, like, okay.
The first, last name is, I'm indifferent.
I don't hate it.
The problem is it makes things a little weird and awkward,
but the upside is you need this
because there's no realms and there's only rule sets.
So you need necessary because of rule sets instead of realms.
Like, so in other words, we would run out of names like, like you kind of need this if there's no realms.
So it's fine. I'm indifferent about it.
It feels a little weird, but it's like, that's necessary, whatever.
It's necessary for something that is really cool.
Um, updated graphics.
So I like OG graphics a lot, but I like, ugh, I hate to say this, but after watching that
graphic panel they looked really good.
I almost would still like a toggle.
I'm indifferent.
Like I actually don't just love it.
I mean, I do love it, but I'm also in diff- like, the updated grap- I would be fine with the old ones, but I'd get it, like...
Okay, fine, they look nice.
Okay, really nice.
But I still want to toggle.
I think I toggle to OG graphics, similar to Warcraft 3 Reforged, um, similar to a lot of other, um, classic games that are relaunched.
Sure, give us the updated graphics, but a toggle to go back to how it looked before would be cool.
But they look pretty darn good.
Okay.
Sorry, you, the toggle-o. Yeah.
Uh, racials...
From what I saw of Racial's, they seem fine.
Racial's seem okay.
Um, what else?
The name?
I'm pretty indifferent about the name.
Like the name forever.
I don't love it.
I think there was probably better options, but I will say this.
Names are hard.
If I was in charge, I probably would have called it classic plus, which is like way worse probably.
So I don't know. I don't have a better suggestion.
Eternal maybe would have been cooler, but I don't care. It's whatever.
New talents in reworks.
In general, I like them.
But there needs to be way more cooking in the kitchen.
New talents in general are solid.
But it depends. Some need work.
Like for example, the Paladin talents are so good.
As a mage, I'm jealous.
But mages didn't need as much love as Paladins, so I get it.
But like, Paladins are so cool that I just want to make one.
I am an OG Palimane as well, but they just look amazing.
Whereas mage is like little lackluster, but...
They didn't need as much love, so I get it. You know what I mean they like mage mages
I think have four changes in total
four
but
They didn't need more than that in a sense, right? They didn't need more so like I get it
Mages were already good exactly
I've been telling you guys this for a while. I love that they did on that paladin. I know
Savik's loves that one too. I'm so happy with that. Very happy with that. That's an ochi
P. Pally main from the start.
I love it.
Looks awesome.
Raid sizes remind me what they said on Raid sizes.
Is it 10 and 20 man?
Is that what they said?
It's 10 20.
So that's my preference.
That's literally my preference.
So I'm going to say I like it.
But I understand that people why people don't like this.
And I actually, I actually get it.
Oh, there's going to be 10, there's going to be 40s.
Oh, Ani is 40.
Oh, interesting.
So this just has to be a W. Yeah, I like that, then.
Did leveling seem faster?
I think it's the same.
Early spell power gear.
Um, okay.
In terms of the early spell power gear, the itemization, they want to change a little
bit because I was very, I actually am, okay, I'm concerned about this.
I actually am concerned.
I already kind of told them this.
What you don't want to happen is you have very strong early gear, like in sod BFD, and
then what needs to happen is Nomur needs to give you better gear, and then Sunken Temple
needs to give you better gear, and each patch needs to give you better, and then you have
this insanely inflated damage number by the end of it to where like you're hitting billions
before you know it.
That's bad.
So what I'm concerned about is when I saw something like Staff of the Westfall with 50
power like or yeah like that it's just a wait wait like way too good I'll say
what the heck so so I told them that I was like what the heck and like that's
gonna be bad down the road like we got to make sure that power creep doesn't
just ruin the game instantly um and what they said was this and I thought it was
actually quite fascinating when you get a weapon on a rogue or a warrior or any
type of melee user that weapon chunks, right? It chunks. Like the weapon upgrades on a warrior
are a big deal. In classic WoW, weapon upgrades for casters aren't as big of a deal while
you're leveling. You just kind of get more intellect. It's like, okay, nice. Right? But
for a melee, they're everything. So what they did is moved more power into spell caster
weapons specifically and remove that same amount of power from, um, I don't know, like
the spell, the, like the spell itself, I suppose, and make it feel like when you get a weapon
upgrade, it's a big deal.
So in other words, weapon upgrades on casters should feel like weapon upgrades on melees.
That's the goal.
They just move the power.
It's not extra power.
So the upgrade on the weapon should feel sick on a caster or a healer, just like it does
on a melee.
That's the idea.
Anyway, so that kind of answers the weapon situation.
Now, still though, power creep is a problem.
You do not want to give too many stats early on, or you kind of screw yourself later on.
So I am a little concerned about that, still, to be honest.
You see the new priest racial spells?
in general. Bubble, thanks for the prime, man. Aja, thanks for the two of them. Camping,
Okay, uh, camping I'm kind of indifferent about.
Camping is something that like, it's a little confusing.
From what I understand, it gives you a reason to make a campfire and for people to come up
to that campfire and utilize the profession in order to give a buff to more people.
It's social.
It's not like world buffs.
It's more like a food buff, like a small buff,
but it's something that you could help someone else out.
It gives more versatility to professions
and it's a small buff.
I don't love it, to be honest, but I don't hate it.
It's just like, oh, okay, cool.
All right, so yeah.
XP buff from food? Crazy.
Alright, what other stuff can I put on this list?
World buffs, so world buffs
are gone in raids.
Massive W. Love it.
Love, love, love, love, love, love this.
Love it. Insanely good.
new zones I mean we don't really like haven't seen too much of them but they look okay so
far I mean like obviously I like that there's new zones if that's what you guys are asking
like of course there's gonna be new zones though yeah new zones sure rated arenas there
There is no rated arenas.
Ping system, cool, yeah, fine.
Add-ons, add-ons are about the same.
Animations look good if you play with the SD models.
And even the HD one, oh, okay,
let's talk about animations for a second, right?
I'll put that under here on SD character models
plus animations.
So this was a little confusing.
They did two things.
On the updated models, AKA the retail models,
they made the animations not bouncy,
but more just as you would know them.
On the new models, I actually hate the new models,
but love and appreciate that they removed the bounciness.
Additionally, I would go so far as to say,
just bring that to retail.
No one likes the bounciness.
Okay, I gotta not scream, because my voice,
I lost my voice this weekend.
Do we have any retail players in here?
Do you guys want the bounce out on retail as well?
Hashtag bounce out, bro.
Like, are you kidding me?
Like, get rid of the bounciness on retail, man.
It would be, so many people would be happy
with this on retail.
Anyway, anyway, that's whatever.
The SD character models are exactly what we know them as, and it's pretty cool.
So I'm just going to play with SD no matter what.
Okay, water, water, I mean, dude, the water looks amazing.
The water looks amazing.
Boats, oh, mobility through boats is awesome.
What they could have done is just added a bunch more ports.
What they could have done is added flying.
Boats are great because you have to run there.
You can move quicker through the world, but you still have to be on a boat with other
players and interact with those players, run to the harbor, wait for the boat, duel someone
while you're waiting.
It's a good way to add mobility.
Very happy.
Skyborn does not have an SDHE toggle.
Fair enough, I guess.
Yeah, because it's new.
It kind of makes sense, I guess, but yeah, fair enough.
Flight times, are they changed?
I actually don't know.
Dungeon XP nerf.
Can someone link to,
where did they talk about Dungeon XP nerf?
I actually might have missed that.
Um, I might have missed what they said there.
In general, I like the idea in a perfect world of this.
If you run a dungeon with your friends
with all of the quests, it's very good XP.
If you do the dungeon again after that, it's okay XP,
XP, but it would be better to continue questing in the world.
In other words, I do not want the optimal leveling strategy to be spamming dungeons only, like
it is currently, because if that's the case, people will only just spam dungeons over and
over and that just sucks.
Let me say, let me actually go in more depth here.
I believe that it's a game designer's job
to create the optimal leveling route
to be fun and engaging, not repetitive and boring.
Like Season of Discovery, the quickest way to level
was to spam the same quest over and over.
That is a design failure.
The optimal leveling route should be versatile and fun.
Like the optimal leveling route should be,
do you do some quests and some dungeon quests
and get in there and then go back out in the world.
It shouldn't be, I'm gonna reset this dungeon five times an hour
and just spam it until a hundred times in a row.
So if that's what the dungeon XP nerf solves, I love it.
But I might be misunderstanding if that's not what it is.
If that's what it is, I love it.
That's what it's solving, I love it.
It is, if that's essentially what it is, cool.
So basically, the first dungeon run, very, very, very worth it.
If you want to spam dungeons, it's fine, but it won't be the optimal way to level.
to W in my book.
Nerfed AOE.
OK, so I missed nerfed AOE.
What is that?
Talk to me.
Tell me about it.
What does nerfed AOE mean?
I saw actually a little bit with Paladin Consecration only
hitting four targets.
Is that the same thing for all AWEs?
It's four targets, period.
Wait, actually hold on,
before we get there, someone linked to this.
This is an article on IC Veins,
wow, forever cuts Dungeon Kill XP
but makes Dungeon Quest more rewarding.
Less Kill XP, bigger Dungeon Quest rewards.
The intended payoff behind this change
from Blizzard's eyes is clear.
Repeated dungeons clearing should not be the optimal leveling route instead
Exploring new dungeons in a while forever should be rewarded accordingly
That is exactly what I'm talking about. That is a big W. Either way Chris. I met this guy
He's been on the team like the whole time
This guy knows his stuff. He's a true OG classic player. He's a this Chris is a true OG
He's a veteran this guy knows what he's talking about
Yes, now one place experience did change. We made a big change for Dungeons. That amount of XP you get from killing monsters in Dungeons
We brought way down. We made the amount of XP for completing Dungeon Quest much, much, much higher.
So your first run through with Dungeons amazing, you get tons of XP, you get great rewards. Amazing. Amazing.
L, policing up people, choose to play the game. So I think you're misunderstanding.
Yeah, okay, you are misunderstanding.
So what they're not doing is policing how you want to play the game.
That's not what they're doing.
That they're not doing that.
They are not doing that.
What they are doing is making the optimal way to play the game, exploring the world.
You can still run dungeons.
So what they could have done is say, okay, guys, you can only do one dungeon an hour.
That would have been policing how you play.
not doing that. Does that make sense? They are not policing how you play the game. You
can still play how you wanted, but the optimal way isn't going to be spam repeating dungeons,
so they're not policing how you play. You can play however you want. Cool. There we go.
I think a lot of this is very subtle. That's why I want to clarify a lot of this stuff.
It's like, it's kind of like the sky-born thing, like optics on it are like, oh, they're
charging 30 bucks for a race, but the reality is, is the game itself is free with a sub
when we all thought it was going to be 60 bucks.
So we all got off like way, way, way, way, way cheaper than before, although it does
kind of look bad.
It's still a massive win, right?
I actually talked to Blizzard on why they chose to do that
because it actually looks kind of bad
instead of just, because what they could have done
is just a $30 box price.
And if they did a $30 box price,
I don't think people would have blinked twice.
Everyone would have been like, okay,
but it would have basically made way more money
the $30 box price, but people would have complained less too.
So maybe they actually should have,
they actually should have, funny.
But the reason they did it is because they wanted more people
to be able to just pay 15 bucks and play right away
because they want to hit this thing to critical mass.
They want to get like, they want like 15 bucks
to be able to try it versus 30 is a big difference, right?
They want everyone to try this thing.
Cash doors lower exactly.
Yeah.
PvP, there's no arenas.
They're, hopefully, will be some fun world stuff, though.
Okay.
Debuff limit removed as far as I know. Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah.
I mean, there's so many things.
T-Buff limit removed.
I don't know, like tool spec.
Obviously, like these are like no-brainer ones.
60-minute buffs, obviously crate.
Gosh, no world buffs.
I'm gonna run out of space here.
Dot's critting, that's cool.
Class balance, class balance is going to be awful.
There's going to need to be a lot of changes, but that's what you would expect on any new
content, so it's how it is.
AOE camp, I need to read more about the AOE camp.
I actually don't fully understand it, so I can't give you my opinion yet.
I think it's cool. I don't mind it. 40 quest cap. Cool. Up from 20. Your microphone stand
is reflecting the chat. Yeah, it actually is. If you guys look right here. Yeah, I'll
a full cam. This is the chat. See that? That's what I'm reading right there. That's you guys.
See that? Is that kind of cool or what? It's always like that. Now you can't unsee it.
Yeah.
We got five gifts from hispanica. Thank you five dollar super chat saying did they remove
leeway. I actually don't know if they removed leeway. It almost feels like they did, but I don't know.
Okay, Piero, thanks for the tier one. How much do you think they're trying to get completely new
players to wow versus only getting, I would assume, all of the above? Forever fangs? Yeah,
only fangs three will be in a while forever, pretty much surely. Jack, thanks for the tip. He says,
people forgetting to talk about the new boats and sepulons in new locations. Yeah, we just talked
talked about it. Ability through boats, it's awesome, very good. Shu Fan says, do you think
they put more attention to hybrid classes for redesign than peer classes? What results
into everyone playing hybrids? No, I think they're putting more attention in the hybrids
because they needed it. Not that they're putting more attention in the hybrids, just in general.
They're putting more attention in the hybrids because those were the classes that needed
more love. So Blizzard slow went from 75 to 54 and the duration went from 4.5 to 2. Interesting.
You probably still AOE grind with that unless there's something else I'm missing. I need to
understand the AOE stuff more. What do you think about the logos color? Don't mind it.
Shared mob tags, no. New class possibility, hopefully not for like a long time.
Achievements, there's no achievements, there's legacy system which is like kinda similar.
Did they update name plate distance from classic? Yeah, it's 40 yards now.
40 yard name plate distance.
I just think overall it's a win. I can see like some pushback there but I think overall it's fine.
What do you think of a horizontal prog it's amazing.
It's amazing.
Yeah we saw now that the NDA is up is there anything you know that wasn't revealed at
BlizzCon.
Pretty much everything I know is out.
There might be some small details that we'll be learning in like the next couple of days
through interviews, um, but yeah, 99% and there's a lot of stuff that I didn't know
that was released at BlizzCon. Okay, I have a quick bone to pick with you guys. Actually,
yeah, even my, even my YouTube editor, I think, uh, this one wrong. So you guys and my YouTube
editor, uh, anyway, I'll talk, talk to him later. Guys, on the announcement, there's so much that
I didn't know that I was freaking out for two reasons one. I'm freaking out
Because it's actually announced and I can talk and say stuff, but two
Half this stuff. I didn't know yet like the name. I never saw the trailer. That's my first time seeing it
So I was cringing so hard when people in the chat were like
acting
What kind of like bro, I've yeah definite bone pick what are you guys talking about? I haven't seen the trailer
I don't know the name. There's so much stuff. I like what do you?
Cringe I was cringing. I was like guys. How is this even a take unbelievable?
So that's my bone pig with you guys
Very very troll very troll
All right rant over actually my YouTube editor
one of the videos you put out the title was
Zaryu gets his Emmy, or gets his Grammy.
Might have to change that YouTube title.
A complete troll on my YouTube editor too.
It's like, what?
Or is it Emmy?
Oscar?
Oh, it's Oscar.
Zaryu collects his Oscar.
Whatever the title was, I don't know.
I was like, you guys think I need to act for the first time?
I'm seeing this stuff live on stage.
Are you kidding me?
I thought it was funny. Oh, Taylor's in the chat. Taylor.
Unbelievable.
Taylor's in the chat. Unbelievable. I saw that. I was like,
I don't need to act. I'm so excited.
Goodness gracious.
Anyway, rant over,
but I was cringing pretty hard at those comments. So I will say that.
I will say that like I'm not going to be excited on the announcement.
Are you okay now rant over?
Okay, classic UI is trash, I love it bro
What are your thoughts on a week after four monsters I
Want to read about the specifics is there an article that covers the specifics here
Manitics. Yeah, I already have that on what I don't like
I might change barber instead of worse if you can change genderpeter to seracuts instead of
I don't know maybe I'll keep it there. I maybe it may be indifferent towards this one
Consecration a we deal same much more than four targets only max damage to the first four the rest will get hit for less damage
So, for Blizzard, for Arcane Explosion, for Kona Cold, you can basically still hit four
targets with full damage, but anything beyond four will be lower.
How much lower?
Eight?
Wait, what do you mean, eight?
I thought it was four.
Like I said, I want to read about it.
I want to read the specifics, because the specifics matter.
Wait, it's only 10% less or 10% of the original damage.
So it's 19.
Wait, 10% of original.
OK, I'm really trying to form my opinion here
from an unbiased perspective.
The reason I'm trying to think about this one
is because I'm a mage main, so obviously I'm biased, right?
I also leveled in 2000 and five or six by AOE grinding,
and so that was a core part of my classic experience
back in the day.
I thought it was really cool, but I have to admit,
it's come a long way, and gold farmers and botting
and boosting is all from like major AOE grinding,
and like I get that it is kind of OP,
but it is also a core way that mages
have played the game since the start of time.
So I'm like, I'm kind of torn on it a little bit,
to be honest with you guys.
New boats, I love.
Thoughts on the leveling pace, it's the same as far as I know.
Bro Mage is not capped, it's only a Pally, I don't know.
Not from what I'm hearing.
Like I said, I would love to read about the specifics.
I would love to read about it.
Arcane Blast doesn't belong in classic.
I like Arcane Blast.
RBG News don't think there's any type of ratings.
As far as I know about PvP, this is the philosophy.
Ratings automatically make the game not feel like classic
because once you have anything with a rating associated,
it becomes way more sweaty
and way more focused on just grinding a rating system
and less about interacting with the world
as the primary character,
interacting with other players out in that world
and leaving the town to go and do something.
Once you add a rating system,
people are stuck to towns queuing it all day.
So yeah, as far as I know, no arenas, no RBGs,
no rating at all in anything.
Casual, like classic, wow.
And I think they want to keep it that way.
Very the chat is very split on this one. I see mainly Ws
I see a lot of Ellis as well might be like a 5050 split. I
Don't even know
We need a dual arena, I want the dual arena the Makara arena
I want reasons to go out in the world and PvP world PvP events
I want reasons to like PvP, but I don't want reasons to just sit in a city in queue. So I
I've been saying that for like a year.
Mudkit, thanks for the prime.
Alex says, do you think Wrath annuals will happen?
I think it probably will.
I'm curious on the timeline though, if WoW forever drops in November and Wrath drops
in January or February or March or April, like the timeline is going to be so weird.
It should not happen.
I don't know.
I literally don't know what they're going to do.
I actually asked Blizzard because I was like, uh, guys, uh, you never told us about, uh, what's happening. And they said
We'll find out soon
So that's what I know
What about GDPs, I don't know about GDPs
On the roadmap it says PVP season refresh in the spring, what do you think that means?
essentially, we'll learn more about it.
The system essentially is gonna be like,
trying to think like how to say this,
like I hinted at it earlier.
You'll grind your ranking, which is not rating.
There's a difference between ranking and rating.
Ranking is time spent equals progression.
That is classic design philosophy at its core.
Retail philosophy is not that.
Retail is skill equals rating equals go up in rating, right?
Classic WoW is fundamentally not that.
Classic WoW is fundamentally time spent equals preparation
equals progress.
That's classic philosophy.
So they're going with a classic philosophy on this one
and doing some type of seasons with that, okay?
Time is money, friend.
Yeah, that's always how Classic WoW has been.
If you spend a lot of time,
you can prepare and expect to do well.
That is Classic WoW philosophy at its core.
Preparation equals performance.
L for people saying L
This might not be your game, but there's another game for you. It's called a retail
bro speaking of like looking in the mic like this you know how you know Tyler
one does this thing on stream where he's like yeah I kind of like gets in your
face and like like like look does this and like yells at the mic I thought it
was like a bit that he did on stream but I was talking to Tyler one and he did the same
thing to me IRL where he got in my face and like looked me in the eyes like this close
like IRL not even on stream I was like bro this is not a bit he actually does that I was
dying bro oh my gosh yeah he's a legend bro oh he's a legend I was like okay that is
actually legendary. Bro, I need to chill on talking my voice. Bro, I lost my voice.
I was doing fine until I went to the Hilton and on that last night and I was just, the
music was so loud. I don't know why they put the music that loud, bro.
But yeah, let me let me just reiterate what I was just saying. There are certain design
philosophy that's based on classic WoW and I think there's a really big point to this
game can't make everyone happy. It can't. But it can make a lot of people very happy,
but it can't make everyone happy. And if you're the guy that wants complex rotations, like
Like I talked to Max and I said, Max, are you going to play?
And he goes, well, I really like the complexity of the rotations and retail.
And you know what Max said?
So I'll probably stick to retail because they have what I want.
It's a great take from Max.
It doesn't need to have everything that pleases everyone.
If you want rating systems instead of ranking, if you want the whole like, oh, time spent
thing to respect your time, like then go play retail because it exists. But turning this into
the modernity that we already have and the modernity that we're trying to avoid
is the biggest possible mistake, right? That's the biggest possible thing that we need to avoid.
So, so, so just to reiterate, like, if there's things that, like, that you want from retail like
that, that are just gonna break the entire fabric of why we're doing this in the first
place, then go play retail, because it already exists.
Like, I just want to be very clear about this, okay?
Very clear.
I don't know, I'm worried about shop mounts.
Shop mounts would suck.
I would not like that.
What we do know is there's no WoW token and no boosts, and to me those are the biggest
two, because what these are are character power.
Character power in a shop is the worst possible thing.
Cosmetics in a shop, I think still kind of suck, but they're way better than character
power.
Selling cosmetics to me is much lower on my list of what bugs me, selling character power
much higher.
So selling character power is out, which is great.
I don't know if they're doing mounts, if they do, I don't like it, but at least it's not
character power.
Am I going to play the beta?
uh no i'll probably skip it
dude obviously i'm playing the beta
oh my gosh
oh my goodness
okay um
Um, what else?
What else?
What else?
Wow.
Forever talents.com.
Dude, this website is sick.
How did someone build this so fast?
Like actually, how did someone build this this fast?
Uh, guys, do you want cookies or no to list hot builds?
We save public talents, links, people open and cookies.
We don't count the same visit.
The calculator works either way.
Take private building.
That link is never saved.
It's an AI website is how they did it so fast like that is crazy
This is my first full this kind of favorite memories watching the announcement a while
forever and hearing someone screaming to the right of me.
I thought to myself man that person is really excited then I realized it was you.
I was very excited.
Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Bro.
Ha, ha, that's actually good.
I might have been, yeah, I might have been
the most excited one there.
I don't know.
I was so excited.
I think for me, I was even more excited
because there is some stuff I knew
and it's like I couldn't wait to like
be able to like say stuff and like talk about it.
And it's like just killing me for like months.
So I might have been the most excited one there.
Got a massive SuperShap from Tru.
Thank you, he says that.
To level 38, you play to feel the same power level as a classic 38.
The stats on some items seem high.
The stats on some items seem high.
I'm a little concerned about it.
But I actually did tell Blizzard to keep an eye on the itemization
and the power creep from that itemization at such a low level,
because it can be concerning.
So they're on top of it.
Fabulous, thanks to the Prime.
Al, thanks to the Prime.
Ricky, thanks to the 2-1.
How does horizontal progression work in the long term?
Will new items just cause power creep?
The way horizontal progression works
is mainly through like set bonuses.
So when new content comes out, there's set bonuses.
I mean, there's multiple ways you can do it,
but one of the big ways you can do it is set bonuses.
So when new content comes out,
there's set bonuses that make that set bonus
very good for the current content.
But when content after that comes out,
there might be new, like there might be gear
with a similar amount of stats,
So the set bonuses make way more sense in that specific raid.
So you want the new gear for that new raid, but if you were to go back to the old raid,
you still want your old gear.
In other words, you're not just getting stronger every tier, but you're getting specific strength
for that tier.
So that's one way to do it.
Another way to do it is with Season of Discovery, they had like sanctified gear for certain
raids.
That gear just made you stronger in that raid.
That's another way you can do it.
Resistances is another way they can do it, which I don't like that way as much.
Oh, you need this amount of resistance.
So this is the good gear with that resistance type, which I don't really enjoy as much.
So I think set bonuses are probably like one of the better ways to do it.
The big problem with that, if you're paying attention is after a long time,
you're going to have like so many items that you're going to need to store them
all and the banks are small right now.
So if they go with a system where you truly want to save a lot of your gear
Over time, what's gonna need to happen
is a much, much, much, much, much larger bank.
Like, not even double or triple, like 10X or something.
Like it's gonna, you need like a massive bank,
bigger bags, like we're gonna need more storage
if that is truly what they're doing.
If you're curious about horizontal progression means to check out Guild Wars 2 Endgame System,
the Master of the Horizontal thing, it's very fun.
I actually haven't played Guild Wars 2, but I would be curious to learn more about like
the specifics.
But I have played other games with horizontal progression like Runescape or Sod, and some
things are more successful than others, like there's a lot, there's not just one way to
do it.
Plyly, thanks for the prime.
Oh man, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, there's so many things to shout about when it comes to
these trees.
I guess we can go, we can go over Mage since I played Mage first.
I play Mage, Rogue, Priest, Pali, Warrior the most.
I don't play as much true with Locke, Hunter, Shaman.
But I played a lot of Mage, Priest, Rogue, Pali, Warrior,
so I can cover those like really, probably really in depth,
or at least more in depth.
Any opinion on Water Ellie?
I don't like Water Ellie.
Imperial, thanks for the super chat, man.
Raps says, I don't know, we got that one.
It was great seeing you at BlizzCon.
Yeah, well thanks for saying hi, man.
I cannot believe at how many people said hi this weekend.
I actually cannot believe it.
It was ridiculous, man.
Well, forever kill TBC.
If it doesn't, then we have a problem.
If forever doesn't kill Classic WoW, then it failed.
It should and if it doesn't, that is not good.
It already did.
How many people have guilds in TBC that are fully shifting to forever now?
Is that happening as we speak?
Me, me, me, it already has.
Me, me, me, me on here.
Yeah.
So, TBC is already taking a hit because of the November 4th timeline.
Oh, I guess we can talk timeline for a second.
November 4th.
Kind of works.
Kind of works, I guess.
That's a little, I was thinking they would maybe shadow drop it, but shadow dropping
beta does make sense and then November 4th, yeah I mean that makes sense, yeah that makes
sense.
I was thinking they would maybe wait till after Wrath too, I'm curious where the whole
Wrath situation, maybe they don't launch Wrath, maybe they don't do Wrath, maybe they just
say GGs we're focusing on this now, I don't know, well no soon is what they said, well
no soon. Is this the forever road map here? Okay, it's actually good to look at real quick.
So play up to level 30 happens. September 17 to the 22 of October. Early name reservation.
Oh, wait, so the beta ends October 22nd?
Hmm, what are we going to do for like two weeks here?
Goodness gracious, what are we going to do?
That is going to be a rough two weeks.
Oh, Warcraft 3.
Okay, maybe I'll plan to play Warcraft 3 in this time.
Yeah, that's what I was actually thinking.
actually thinking okay so warcraft 3 has a new um what is it called a new uh
mission new mission new campaign new campaign um i want to play really bad but i don't think
we're gonna have time to play it like today tomorrow and then of course not thursday so i'll
play it that this week i'll play this yeah i'll play it if the beta ends the 22nd i'll play it
like this. Hopefully I can play through it in one week. There's no old graphics on the
new campaign. Oh really? I want to play no matter what though. It's 30 hours. Okay, so
I can easily do it. Probably just in like a couple days. Are we going to be locked
either Alliance or Horde and PvP rule sets. I asked Blizzard, he said they're gonna answer
that on a Q&A soon, essentially. So, I think that's what's happened. I would assume he
you would be able to, but like I said, I don't know the answer to that.
Since there's no realms, why could you, like, why would they lock you to one faction per
account?
Why could you only make Alliance PV, like, I'm sure you could make both.
I'm sure.
I'd like, don't, don't quote me on that, but like, it would make no sense if it was one
faction per account.
would be so weird. I'm gonna play PvP realm. PvP ruleset rather. I'm gonna make an undead
Paladin alt. Maybe on that one I'll do PvE. But on my mage, I'm gonna do mage first of
course. That'll be on PvP. Bro, I was gonna make a Skyborn mage because I just love elves
And I think they look sick, but the gnome racial is so good.
Eureka and I already like gnomes, too.
And I always play a nomage that I feel like I should just go gnome.
I feel like I have to go gnome.
I grandposted there's going to be a Q&A on Thursday.
Cool. All watch.
I don't know if it's going to be live or if it's going to, if it's live, I'll definitely watch that.
No more.
All right, I'll just keep reading this.
Early name reservation and character creation is October 27th.
Okay.
So the beta ends the 22nd.
The 27th will get names and in the fourth will be launch
Raids unlock will be December 9th
Okay
That's borrow deeps hyzol in a nixia. Oh, we're starting with hyzol. Are you kidding me? That's sick
What?
Okay, so I guys I was at BlizzCon
Okay, okay. I haven't said this
I mean, this isn't like big news, but I was at BlizzCon, um, two things, one, I was so
busy that I did not get to actually see BlizzCon.
I never walked around the event and like saw anything.
I was just live the entire time.
So, so there's that.
The second thing is it is really hard.
It like this weekend to understand what was actually being announced when I'm sitting
there and the the the event in the crowd are so loud because everyone's cheering and clapping
that like I couldn't like hear what was being announced properly so there's what I'm trying
to say is like there's a lot of stuff that I need to react to and rewatch because when I was there
I literally I was like I was on the AWC stage or like right next to the AWC stage and there was a
MDI behind me the MDI was right there and everyone's screaming which is awesome
But there's a panel going on and I can't hear anything and all of you guys in the chat were like
Cool, that's exciting and I was like I didn't hear any of that
But I didn't say that at the time because I was trying my best
But like I guys I didn't hear any of I didn't hear half of this stuff because I was literally honest
I didn't hear at all is that MDI was right behind me and everyone's screaming so I'll have to rewatch some of it
Oh, and there was the first panel I missed.
The first panel I missed.
Lol, I thought you were kind of quiet during the panels.
Yeah, it was hard to react to the panel.
So what I did during the panels, guys, is I just muted my mic.
Because if I didn't, all you would hear is the MDI crowd sharing.
Like if I didn't mute my mic all you guys would like you wouldn't even have heard anything
So I just muted my mic and kind of try my best to listen anyway because people were like what's wrong with czar
I'm like dude. It is loud right now
Watch the first panel right now. Yeah, I would love to is there a link for that. I'm sure it's on the Warcraft YouTube
I
Crap which one was the first one the creator showcase. Oh
Nice, okay
Reforged midnight. What's next is it this one? No, I watched this one
Hmm
Is it this one this one I didn't see this one. Well, I actually saw the second half that's the one yeah, I
Actually only saw the second half of this so this will this is this will actually be really really really good to watch
World of Warcraft what's next panel one? Okay, so the reason I didn't watch this
um live when I was there is because this happened right after they announced the game and
Like literally right after and the game was unlocked for us to play
So I was like should I watch this or play the game and I asked you guys and everyone is like just play the game
Bro, so I just play the game
So to watch it yeah, I just I just started playing bro. I was like I can't I can't hold back
Anyway, so that's why I haven't seen this yet, so let's watch it. It's 47 minutes,
probably a lot of info in here that I haven't seen yet. I think I saw the last
like five minutes or something, but besides that I haven't seen it. Let's check it out.
Join the World of Warcraft team for a first look at the next chapter of Azorah.
Hello again, Longtime No See. It is amazing to be up here, actually able to at last talk about
what's somehow both the best kept and worst kept secret of the summer?
Shout out the classic while subreddit. No, it's not too late to start. We're the Warcraft forever. True
Bro, one of the things is on these stages. It is so hard to talk. I
Actually didn't realize when you're on stage trying to talk
It's so weird because you're you can't hear anything like that
Everything is so loud that you like can't hear yourself talk
And when someone asks you a question, you can't hear them ask the question either the crowd can hear you
But you can't hear you and you can't hear anyone else. It's really weird
It's like so I was up there and I asked me a question and I was like I can't hear what you said
So I just I just said something else hopefully it made sense and then I couldn't hear what I was it was very hard to talk very hard to talk
This is a story that really began nine years ago in these halls when we announced wow classic to the world
And then a couple of years after that, of course, we welcomed you in to dive back into
Azeroth to experience it as it was in the beginning.
And millions came in and settled in and began tackling Nixia and Ragnaros, leveling up
to 60, really re-experiencing that journey.
But the conversations naturally started to emerge around what would come next.
And those conversations grew louder.
Many people, of course, hoped to continue on into the Burning Crusade and a chance to
to go back through the Dark Portal and show Illidan just how prepared we've all become
after 20 years, the min-maxing next level, and of course that is what came to pass.
But there was another group, even back then, in 2020 or so, a group of dreamers, people
for whom the vanilla game was just about the perfect MMO, if not for already being solved
and already being experienced.
They didn't want to leave behind that world grounded in the immediate aftermath of Warcraft
three and begin a journey forward through the timeline.
They didn't want to replace their hard one rate epics with greens from Zangarmarsh.
They didn't want to go from the sprawling advance of Eastern kingdoms and
Kalimdor to an Outland that you could fly across in just a few minutes on an
epic mount.
Like this is what we say as good as TBC was, it's like, it also just like,
just like fragmented the world.
You're just flying everywhere.
You leave the old world behind.
You replace all your insane items.
Like, if you had full tier 2.5 Thunder Fury, like, like, Prop Paladin, Gigachat, hard earned, by yourself, with no handouts, like...
Now, all of that is just completely gone, and you start over, you know, obviously, TVC's amazing, but yeah, that's exactly right.
What if we could stay at level 60, they asked.
And so did we. What if we could build some new content and tell new stories in that immersive world?
And what if we could make mean specs even just a tiny bit viable?
Paladin's talking to you here.
But this was 2020, and the reality is that the team that we had at the time, the development
pipeline that we had at the time, were something that had been purpose-built to restore and
curate an old version of the game, not to add to it, not to build new things.
And so for a time, that dream stayed a dream.
But that ember of an idea smoldered over the months and years to follow.
And it took hold within the classic team as well.
People on the team would come forward left and right, pitching versions of what it might
look like to add content to change that vanilla game.
And that led us to 2023 when we decided to test the waters with a certain experiment,
also announced right here.
of discovery was an experiment on many levels.
Right?
So, it was awesome.
But it was deliberately pushing boundaries.
And we pretty much said that outright at the time, because it was a time-limited seasonal
experience.
It gave us a chance to find the limits of how much change was too much change.
How far could we go before things started to feel like they didn't belong in that world
or alongside those philosophies?
What we did make, a bunch of new quests, new items, new class abilities, even all new dungeons
and raids like Charizard and Crypt and the Scarlet Enclave.
And we sure found those limits, but along the way, we learned a ton of valuable lessons.
And probably a couple of years ago, by the middle of 2024, looking at how it had gone,
we were certain that it was not only possible, but compelling to pursue this vision.
For Season of Discovery, we learned what worked and what didn't.
We learned how to build content 20 years later that felt like it belonged alongside
the original stuff, and in the meantime, we'd absorbed years of experience of how players
today approach the classic game, which is different in many ways from how it was back
in 2005 when the internet was a different place and knowledge was a different thing.
But most of all, we heard loud and clear from everyone in Season of Discovery that they didn't
want just a temporary season, but instead a forever home where their investments would
be meaningful, where their journey could continue forward.
Yeah, I think that's the big thing that classic enjoyers have been wanting, not just in season
of discovery because it ends, but the same thing was true or is true in current TBC.
We don't know what TBC is going to be, so as cool as getting stuff is, it's like, well,
it might just be gone.
We don't know where MOP is going.
Hopefully we know soon, but it's cool,
but it could just be gone.
Like, so, I mean, I don't really like the name forever
in a sense, but like, wow, forever is so cool.
Cause it's just like, okay, we have a wow again
to just like grind and your progression
isn't just going to be deleted from another expansion.
Your progression is going to be deleted
from literally just, you know, deleting the servers
or your progression isn't going to be deleted
in the sense like in Season of Discovery
everyone quitting because there's no new content updates. We're gonna get
continual content updates where it's gonna be like cool this is my account
this is my world of Warcraft account. I personally haven't felt that way since I
stopped playing retail you know as my primary game many many years ago so I've
been craving having just like a wow account again on hardcore I mean I love
hardcore but I look at all of my characters is very temporary because
one day you'll die on them, right?
On Season of Discovery, we knew it would end.
On TBC, it's amazing, but you don't really know
where it's going, right?
So, it's like for the first time,
we actually have a classic wow,
that's like, all right, let's grind it,
and we're not just gonna get an expansion,
that's just gonna delete all this stuff
and replace it with greens.
So, just on that alone,
I feel like it's just such a massive W.
We've already made the list
on all of the things that I like and don't like, right?
But I feel like just that alone gets me so darn excited, you know?
And so here we are.
Thank you to all those dreamers along the way who kept this idea alive and gave
the team inspiration over the years.
It's been a lot of fun over the last year, reading and watching all the online
discourse about what Classic Plus could be, should be, and definitely shouldn't be.
But now let me turn it over to the team so they can tell you exactly what it is.
Say
Hello BlizzCon
So, what exactly is WoW forever?
For us, it begins with a simple belief.
There are still a message worth telling in the original world of Azeroth.
We're not looking beyond Azeroth for the next chapter.
We're not moving forward to Outland and beyond.
Instead, we're looking deeper into the world players already fell in love with.
The Eastern Kingdoms, Kalimdor.
The places we've traveled through for decades.
We're revisiting mysteries that were never fully explored,
stories that were never fully told,
regions that existed on the map,
but never had the chance to become adventures of their own.
We believe Azeroth still has secrets worth uncovering.
And that's what WoW Forever is.
Not expanding away from Azeroth,
but expanding deeper inside of it.
I mean, like, do we, like, that, I mean,
that is the biggest W, right?
That is what we wanted at a fundamental level.
That is what we wanted.
So I love this.
I mean, like I said, there's things I don't like
or things that I'm unsure about
or things that I'm like, eh, right?
Especially that darn UI, especially that darn UI.
But like that right there is what we've been wanting
at a fundamental level.
So that's cool.
I'll go things with 20 gifts bro, you're legend.
So before we show you exactly where that journey begins,
I want to talk briefly about the principles guiding
every decision that we've made.
First, let me get my slides here, sorry there.
First, approachable and familiar.
We believe the world should still feel like classic.
Every addition we make is measured
against the spirit of the original game.
Not whether it's new, not whether it's flashy,
but whether it feels like it belongs.
That's why you won't find flying mounts.
Yeah?
Yeah?
Yeah?
You won't find level scaling.
And Azeroth should remain a dangerous world
where preparation matters, communication matters,
and working together matters.
Yes.
Thank you.
We're not interested in making the game difficult simply for difficulty's sake.
When challenges are overcome, we want it to be because players prepared,
learned, cooperated and succeeded together.
Right there. We literally said this like, like an hour ago or 30 minutes ago.
Classic WoW is about preparing. It's not about difficulty.
It's not about, oh, I need to not stand in the fire and move at like 0.5,
Like, bu-bu-bu-bu-bu-bu-bu-bu-bu-bu, like retail, like all of this crazy stuff.
It's not about that.
It's about coming together, preparing, and owning that raid.
And of course, you might wipe 3 to 5, 10 times, but it's not gonna be like this like 100 boss
kill progression mythic rating sweating frustrating experience.
It's not that.
It just isn't, right?
And you don't wanna make it into that.
So I love this.
I love this, man.
Now second, world as the main character, yes.
Yes, love this too. Love this too.
We believe Azeroth itself should be one of the most important characters in the game.
Leveling is just as important as endgame.
Alright, I gotta pause again.
Yes, yes, yes, that is right baby, I love that.
Yes.
And we want to keep investing in the world itself through new zones, new quests, new rewards,
and new adventures across all levels of play.
Not every story needs to be about saving the world.
Sometimes the most memorable stories happen in a remote village along a forgotten road
or a corner of the map that you never expected to revisit.
I can't believe I missed this.
This is just like every sentence is like golden, right?
You don't have to be saving the world of requests or modern MMOs.
You don't have to be just this main guy that's like, you're the guy that's just making it
so that we all don't die every quest.
It's like, no, bro.
That's not what it's about, right?
The pacing, the nice little quest here and there.
It's fantastic, man.
I love it.
Now third, journey before destination.
We believe your effort should matter.
that should continue to matter,
while forever is designed as a long-term home.
We're not planning around future-level cap increases
that invalidate your accomplishments,
the professions you invest in matter,
the routes you choose matter,
and the gear you earn matters.
The experiences that you have with friends matter.
Our catch-up system is quite simple.
Play the game!
Oh my gosh! Let's go!
Bro, when all of us went to RuneScape last year, this was the one thing that we all came back asking for.
Like, we want our progress to matter, not just getting wiped or reset every expansion.
Like, it's just like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I missed this panel, bro. Holy crap.
Level up, run dungeons, make friends, explore the world, earn your rewards.
And finally, protect and nurture social experiences.
Many of our favorite memories from classic happened because of other players, because
someone helped us complete a quest, because a stranger joined our group, because a dungeon
run turned into a friendship.
We've had to be disciplined when adding convenience to the game
because every quality of life decision affects how players interact with one another.
Now, we want to create reasons for people to explore an adventure together,
and that's part of the philosophy behind new systems like camping.
And it's why every patch will include content for different kinds of players,
Where you enjoy solo adventures, dungeons, raids, PVP, or something in between.
Because the best adventures are the ones that we share.
So those pillars guide every decision that we make.
But what do they actually mean in practice?
For us, it starts...
So those are some pretty darn good pillars.
If they actually stay true to those pillars, I have a lot of faith in this game, right?
that they stray from those obviously not good.
Those are some really good foundations.
I love them.
With Azeroth itself, people often talk about vanilla Azeroth
as though it's a solved game, as though every mystery
has been answered, every story has been told,
every corner of the world explored.
But when we look at Azeroth, we see something very different.
We see potential, we see unfinished stories,
we see unexplored places, we see regions players
have been wondering about for decades, the Gilneas, Mount
Hygel, Uldum, the mountains north of Angora.
I wonder what's up there?
The spaces that exist between the familiar parts
of the world and the possibilities
don't stop there.
Forgotten kingdoms, Titan.
This is so sick.
They circled on the map like all of these spots.
I love this.
In the future, they're going to need
to add some new stuff eventually,
especially for staying in Azeroth.
We're gonna need maybe something on here, here,
or we're gonna need like a boat to another island,
like here or something.
But right now, there is so much undiscovered content
for years or, I don't know,
at least maybe a year or two or three
to where just build the world out, right?
You wanna see players taking flight paths and boats
across these pre-existing places
and run around on your mounts and explore them, right?
You want to see that for a long, long time.
Eventually, yeah, you might have to add things here and there,
but like there's so much here.
Mysteries, the Emerald Dream, the Caverns of Time,
countless adventures still waiting to be told
in the vanilla world.
But every journey has to begin somewhere.
And when we started planning LOW Forever,
we wanted to begin with places deeply rooted in the world,
players already know and love.
So let's take a look at where our adventure begins.
So today we're introducing four new regions to Azeroth.
Yes, four new adventurers built directly into the world
of the Eastern kingdoms in Kalimdor
because Azeroth is not finished growing
and this is how that growth begins.
Bro, I like, I'm so torn,
like I absolutely love classic graphics
but at the same time, I can't sit here and say
that like this doesn't look amazing.
Like the glistening sun and the water,
like it looks so good.
I still like how classic looks,
but it's like this also does.
I think the best of both worlds would be a toggle.
I don't know if that's even possible,
but like it does look very good.
And I'm such a classic graphics enjoyer, right?
So it like kills me to say that,
It looks pretty good.
So let's start with a place many of us have wondered about for more than 20 years.
Mount Hygel!
We all know the story.
We know the story of Archimonde's defeat.
But what happened afterwards?
How did Hygel recover?
How are the forests healing from the corruption?
How are the wild gods affected by the events atop the mountain?
And what dangers still remain?
Mt. Hygel is a new end game leveling zone where players can finally journey through the dark whisper gorge
and explore one of Warcraft's most important locations during a period of history that we've never really experienced before.
Didn't they also say it was going to be a 20-man raid on the roadmap?
I was almost certain because he just said it's an end game leveling zone, but this says, oh, Hygel's summit is different than Mt. Hygel.
Okay, Hygel's summit is going to be a 20-man.
Now, you'll encounter new stories, rewards,
new reputations, and both solo and group content
as you help shape the future of this recovering land.
And for players seeking a greater challenge,
Hydral also serves as the home of
one of our launch raids, Hydral Summit.
And it serves as one of
three entrances into one of our other raids,
the Barrow-Deeps.
Because some of Azeroth's greatest victories
still have stories yet to tell.
But not every adventure begins with a famous landmark.
Some begin in places we've barely noticed at all.
If you've ever flown between Morgor and Desilis,
you've probably seen a set of ancient ruins passing far below.
A small detail in the world, a mystery hiding in plain sight.
Welcome to Shendralar.
Here you'll meet Mordent Evenshade and learn more about the Shendralar.
The people who, like, this is the stuff we want to see, right?
It's already there and they're building it out.
Like, that is so darn cool, then.
History is deeply connected to Elctrophilus, Dire Maul, and Prince Tortheldrin himself.
The players will also continue storylines involving the Galchis and the Magrum Centaur tribes,
while discovering new reasons to visit dungeons like Maradon and Razorfen Downs.
That's a great example of one of the things we love most about Azeroth.
Even the smallest corner of the world can become a truly memorable adventure.
If they continue building out all of these small corners month after month,
year after year, and content updates, imagine how rich this world is going to be.
Right? Like, every, like it already is, right?
Right classic era already is but imagine they keep doing stuff like this
It's gonna be like bro. Everything is just magical like everywhere you go. There is just something to do like oh
my gosh now
One of our core beliefs is that the journey matters and nowhere embodies that philosophy better than our new zone the River Glades
Located along the eastern coast of eastern kingdoms between Red Ridge
burning steps, the badlands, and swamp of sorrow, this place is big, the river
blades is a major new leveling zone inspired by stories that stretch all
the way back to the earliest Warcraft games. Years ago human forces pursued
retreating orcs to this region and when help never came many of those settlers
were forced to remain behind and build lives of their own on the frontier.
Generation later the descendants still endure. This is a rugged land of rivers,
grasslands, trade routes, struggling communities, old grudges, and new
opportunities. Humans and orcs, ogres and gnolls, goblins and murlocs, all
competing to survive in a region where no one has it easy. And that's what makes
the River Blades special. This isn't a story about saving Azeroth. It's a story
about living in Azeroth. A spanning from the mid-30s to the mid-40s, River
blades introduces more than 150 new quests.
Mid 30s to the mid 40s.
I think that's actually kind of exactly the level
of where it should be, because there's
like a weird level between like 40 and 44,
like before you go to Teneris, that like oftentimes it's
like, oh, you just have to keep doing Scarlet
monastery over and over.
Or I mean, you can kind of bridge the gap
if you like every quest.
But sometimes it gets a little rough.
It's like the exact level band that like an extra zone with more quests is gonna like smooth over.
Um, I don't know if we're gonna add a dungeon, but a new dungeon at level 42 or 43 would be awesome.
So like in between Scarlet Monastery and RFD, but before Zulfarok.
Cause if you've done, if you've ever leveled a character in Classic WoW, there's this moment where like you've done Scarlet Monastery five times.
You don't really want to do R of D again, but you're too low to go to Zul'fer'ak, right?
You can do like the first half of Old A Man, but like that's kind of weird sometimes
because you can't complete Old A Man at that level either.
Content for both Horde and Alliance players, new reputations, new rewards,
and entirely new ways to progress through your leveling journey.
The players will also discover a neutral goblin port that expands trade routes throughout the
Eastern kingdoms and beyond so is calling and for those of you looking for trouble you'll find
pro doc strong uh yeah once i'm gonna call i'll answer this
yeah what's going on gamer i i know you're watching a panel and i'm gonna let you get
back to it i just someone told me this and it's i i have to ask you okay are you do you want to
Toggle off the new like art and the god rays and the fog you would prefer that toggled off
I would prefer a toggle so it's up to the user whether they want it on or off
Just a toggle just the option for if you want like an og
Warcraft 3
Experience, you know like you know in Warcraft 3 you can go to the new graphics of the og
So what would you what would you play as?
To be honest, I'd probably play with the new one for a little bit
until a bug until I found a little bit and then if I found something that bugged me enough or I was like crap
I want more nostalgia or like I want to just go back then maybe I would turn them off
But I would probably start with them on yeah, okay. This makes sense people obviously people were misunderstanding and my excited
Sorry took you away from your panel. No, it's a little it's a little new was off like here's the thing
I'm such a classic graphics guy like when I played Warcraft 3. I just love like the low-poly art when I played runescape
I thought it was sick like so I love like the low poly stuff, but even me. I'm like, okay fine. It looks really good
It's like, okay. Would you how would you prefer here? Would you prefer?
Like if they if it's impossible for them to add a toggle, let's say it somehow affects the world and it the way something
It fucks things up. You can't do it toggle because everyone needs to be in line. Yeah. Yeah. What would you want?
classic or the new update
for the world I guess then the guest then it's the new one
Kills me to say that. Why does that kill you? Have you guys I like all these stuff?
Now it looks amazing and look like look I hate to say it but it looks amazing, okay?
I love I love all the sick. Okay. It looks good. It looks really good, okay?
If I can only have one I guess the new one, but like okay, yeah
I agree okay now that I know your take is you just want to toggle that makes more sense
I just had to clarify, sorry, it's all that you get back to it.
Thanks, bro, GG's.
All right, sorry.
That is some good questions from Soda,
because my take on this is nuanced.
I want the toggle just to give the player the choice,
but the new ones look really darn good, okay?
You know, the new ones look really darn good.
Like, really good.
Like, the new water that, like, it just looks like, guys,
it looks better than retail, right?
Right? Like it looks like it looks insane, looks ridiculous.
Anyway, I would like the toggle, but that's the nuance take of this.
Anyway, let's get back to the panel.
And hold an enormous outdoor dungeon where a powerful ogre civilization is conducting some very questionable business.
And yes, we thought it might be nice to have another option besides running Scarlet Monastery for the 25th time.
Yeah!
True, true, true.
So far, we've explored places tied to the familiar parts of Warcraft's history.
But Azeroth should still be able to surprise us.
Sometimes the greatest mystery isn't beyond the horizon.
Sometimes it's above us.
Welcome to Zephyr's Isle.
Thousands of years ago, a group of high-born exiles forged a pact with the elemental wind
spirits and they built a civilization in the realm of Skywall.
This wasn't entirely without precedent.
players may remember stories like Thunderfury and Prince Thundaren, where we first caught
glimpses of the elemental powers beyond Azeroth itself.
Now Zephyrus gives us an opportunity to expand on some of those ideas while still creating
something entirely new.
But the civilization of Zephyrus is in trouble.
The air spirits that once protected these islands have vanished.
Ancient structures are beginning to fail.
Communities are becoming isolated.
And the Skyborne people are divided over what comes next.
Some seek answers from the wind spirits.
Some wish to reclaim the arcane traditions of their ancestors.
The others have turned to darker powers.
The Zephyrus Isle serves as a brand-new starting experience
from levels one to 12
and combines classic warcraft aesthetics
with elemental architecture inspired by Skywall itself.
And that is why we're introducing an entirely new playable race,
the Skyborne.
Yes.
Now, the Skyborne are not a neutral race.
At character creation, players will choose whether the Skyborne joins the Horde or the
Alliance.
And while they share a common ancestry, they no longer share a common vision for the future.
The Horde-aligned Skyborne embrace stronger ties to elemental traditions and work closely
alongside the Earthen Ring, granting access to the Shaman class.
Now, Alliance Skyborne pursue the arcane legacy of their ancestors
and work alongside the Kirin Tor, granting access to the mage class.
Now, both factions can play warriors, hunters, robes, and druids,
including some brand new Skyborne druid forms created specifically for the race.
And the name came on.
Sick.
And the Skyborne also feature new ratios, customizations, voices, dances,
and a wide range of unique visual options.
And more importantly, the Skyborne represent exactly the kind of story we want to tell
in Well Forever.
Okay, so, there's so much to cover here.
I already talked a lot about this.
I would have preferred, oh, my voice, that wasn't a crack.
Let me explain what that was.
That was, I lost my voice over the weekend, so it's hoarse.
That was a hoarse.
Much different than a crack.
I would have preferred high elf as a high elf
and then a forsaken elf like Sylvanas.
That would have been like the best possible,
but to be fair, I didn't like think about that
till a bunch of people were saying it like that.
That would have been sick.
But I will say that I actually don't hate Skyborne.
Their lore is they're a high elf, right?
So they're essentially high elves that went to this aisle.
And then you might say, well, they made that up,
which is somewhat fair criticism.
And we already talked about this earlier,
but I'll repeat myself a little.
All of the Warcraft lore is made up.
I think that needs to be said.
Metzen drew this aisle, and they talked about it.
Oh, guys, I know, I know, I know.
And there's, I think they talked about it in another panel,
but there's a few pillars they're trying to follow here, right?
They wanna tell these untold stories,
but they want to create a freedom to add new stuff.
So Metzen gave them the green light of like,
guys, you at some point are gonna have to add new stuff.
Valid criticism though,
this might not have been a place where they needed to yet.
They maybe should have just done high elves
and forsaken elves and saved the new stuff
for something else.
At some point though, you do need to add new stuff, right?
Straight from medicine's mouth.
Like you have to build and eventually build new lore.
So then you might have the question,
where does that fit within the lore of the world?
And we covered this a little bit earlier today,
but just to repeat myself,
they straight up said at BlizzCon
that the lore in this game, in WoW Forever,
does not affect the world of retail, of mainline,
of Warcraft 3, it's not like going to retcon everything.
Retconning does not exist in this game
because they gave themselves permission
to be working on a full new timeline.
This is like, the decisions in this game
do not affect mainline, in other words.
It does not affect retail.
So it's like, okay, retconning doesn't exist
because it's a whole new universe.
Stuff doesn't need to be made up.
Having said all of that, once again,
I would have preferred high elves,
Forsaken Elves like a Sylvanas would be so cool.
But I don't hate it, but I feel like it's just like,
you know,
I will say that I like elves,
so I actually do prefer this over an ogre.
Sorry, ogre lovers, but I do prefer an elf over an ogre.
Okay, I'm just gonna keep doing this.
Something new, something exciting,
and something that feels like it belongs in Azeroth.
Now, whether it's helping restore Hygel,
uncovering forgotten histories of chendralos,
building a future on the river-glazed frontier,
or taking your first steps through the skies of Zephyrus.
These are only the first chapters of Wow Forever.
This isn't a seasonal experiment.
This isn't a one-time expansion,
and it isn't the end of Azeroth's story.
It's a commitment, a promise,
to keep growing this world with new regions,
new mysteries, new adventures,
and new stories for years and years to come.
But a living world needs challenges,
new dungeons, new raids, new battlegrounds,
new rewards, and to show you
what's waiting for adventurers brave enough to answer that call,
I would like to hand things over to Nora.
Thank you.
Nice.
I mean, that's the basis of what we wanted, right?
I think Skyborn might have been a little...
Not quite that, but a lot of this understaffed. Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Greetings, adventurers!
I'd like to start by expressing just how proud I am of the team for making this dream a reality.
Like many of you watching right now, we've poured our hearts into World of Warcraft.
And it's an honor to be entrusted with this beloved world
and this incredible legacy.
Ah!
Look at me!
Getting all sentimental when there are matters
that require our attention.
There's adventure to be had all across Azeroth,
and, well, let me just show you.
In the Alterac Mountains,
a disruption has thrown the magical city of Dalaran into chaos.
The mages of the Curentor have erected a magical barrier over the city to conceal the
restoration efforts after the events of Warcraft 3, but as you can see, the
barrier seems to be down. Furthermore, I'm hearing all sorts of strange reports.
Enchantments backfiring, arcane constructs going haywire, demonic energy
has been running rampant, there are cats everywhere up. I guess that part's normal.
Anyway, far be it from me to imply that the all-powerful mages of the Cure and Tord don't have the situation under control,
but perhaps if you're willing to brave the dangers, you could lend them a hand.
Especially if you're around levels 28, 33, there might be some magical artifacts in it for you.
So, yeah, we did this dungeon with Tyler1.
Despite Tyler1 griefing and not really tanking anything at all, this was a pretty sick experience.
We only got to see a glimpse of it. It's on my YouTube channel if you missed it.
We only got to see a glimpse of it because we were hard stuck on the first part,
but you like start in the sewers and work your way up.
And if we had a better tank, we probably would have seen more of it, but that's not the point.
The point is we got through a lot of the, like a little bit of the content from what we did see.
It was pretty cool. It was pretty cool.
And besides, there's a whole city to explore. So no, this isn't just a dungeon. Of course,
the optics of some rag-tag group of adventurers helping out these powerful
mages would not go over well but I'm sure we can find some roundabout way to get
you into the city. Anyway that's just scratching the surface. Let's turn our
sights closer to home.
The once great city of Lordaeron was devastated by Arthas and his scourge.
The Forsaken have been hard at work trying to restore the city.
There are memories here, old family heirlooms, keepsakes from loved ones who never made it
out of the city in time.
The ruins of Lororan are treacherous, a scourge still lurked in its darkest corners.
But to make matters worse, we've heard reports that Necromancer has moved in, and all signs
point to an attack on another city.
While members of the board may choose to take up arms and assist the Forsaken in reclaiming
these ruins, ideally in the level 15 to 20-ish range, while members of the Alliance—
Jack!
Well, I can't remember if you imagined the Forsaken taking kindly to your presence here,
so you may need to find a way to sneak in.
But don't worry, Alliance, we have something close to home for you too.
The Dwarven Capital City of Ironforge is carved within the mountains of Denmerrow, and its
mighty halls run deep.
the city proper lies the Hall of Thames a final resting place for the dwarven monarchs of old
this is a place that has been well tended and for the most part left undisturbed but if you
guys can't believe it someone's broken into the place is this like old iron forge like this is
really cool like so um Wubby actually linked me this
Hall of Thames level 13 where did that go like we have we have rfc obviously for horde
but alliance never really had that now we have Hall of Thames lower level 13 upper level 18 that is
so cool that's so cool i suspect the dark irons and perhaps if you're a member of the alliance
You might feel inspired to uproot these intruders, although I'll warn you, ghostly whispers echo these corridors.
It's probably best to make sure you're at least somewhere in the 13-18 level range.
As for Horde, one thing's for certain.
The dwarves, I know, would never let some Horde waltz fright into their sacred burial chamber.
I suppose if you're curious, you'll need to find a way to sneak in or perhaps carve your way through.
But enough about hauling here for a venture.
Huh, okay.
Azeroth holds many secrets, and it's no surprise-
I wonder if they're gonna make a way for a lion's
to be able to carve their way through to RFC,
or sneak into RFC.
I mean, I guess you technically already can just run in.
But that would be kind of, you know what I mean?
Surprised that there would be no,
so many archeological dig sites
through it's scattered throughout the land.
These courageous enough to brave errant titan constructs
may set their sights on one dig site in particular.
Located in the wetlands, just about well-darned excavation,
you'll find a place trapped in time.
Although we don't know much about it, but that's the point.
A strange mist has been floating down from the mountains,
and flashing lights have been spotted on the horizon.
So there must be something up there.
You'll check it out, won't you?
I would make sure that you're in the levels 29 to 29.
There are 24 to 29 range, I'd say,
so you're prepared for what you might find.
I'm sure the explorers league might be interested in those findings.
But if you're not a fan of swamps, I understand.
So how about something a bit more tropical?
So this is the one we saw.
So we talked about how Dungeon XP was nerfed and people seem to be up in arms
about it, but the XP from quests has gone up substantially.
So what I think what this is, um, now that I'm seeing all these
dungeons being announced, like I said, I missed this panel, it makes more sense.
What they want you to do is to go out in the world in quests and meet some friends,
hit a dungeon at all of the quests, get a couple levels, and then just go to the next dungeon
and have an experience that is new again versus just resetting the dungeon 16 times in a row,
like Scarlet Monastery, and never leaving your same group, never going out in the world,
never meeting new people, right? You're just stuck there. It's actually,
it makes more sense because we have so many dungeons now in these level ranges.
It's like do all of them once, maybe twice, do all the quests, get a ton of experience,
but then like prepare yourself for that next one, you know? I really like that.
These ancient troll ruins located off the coast of Stranglethorne Vale have been submerged in
waves and inhabited by sea creatures for as long as I can remember. And I don't mean to alarm you,
but those ruins have suddenly risen out of the ocean. You can see it just off the coast.
It appears to be some sort of city?
Well, one thing's for certain, we're going to need somebody to go in and make sure nothing
to Therias is going on in there.
I've heard reports that trolls and Naga have been spotted there, and I thought I saw a
pirate ship crash into the place.
And a shark.
You know how they're doing.
Big shark.
Could be pretty dangerous, so I'd make sure you're at least around levels 35 to 40 before
venturing into that place.
I'm looking around the room and y'all look pretty tough.
So if you want to head over to the World of Warcraft demo area,
you can check out the Drown City today right here on the show floor.
Yep, that was fun. Very fun.
We were level 38 on the demo and it was tough.
Like you guys watched it.
If you pulled two packs, you're probably going to die, right?
Keep in mind, it's a demo.
So no one really had add-ons.
No one had keybinds.
No one had macros.
You kind of hop into the demo, drag all your stuff
to your bars, and go.
And you have a 30-minute timer, and that expires.
You're off.
So that's why it was so hard to.
Like, imagine you try to set up a character in four minutes
and go.
You don't know your new talents.
You don't know all your keybinds set up.
You kind of just go.
Like, so yeah, a lot of wiping.
But like, yeah, if you pull two or three packs,
like you'll probably just die, which means CC is good,
which is awesome, which means going slow
and like pulling them off back,
which is how it should feel.
You don't want dungeons to be introduced
and you just kind of like AOE them down,
like this is sick, right, very cool.
I'm sure though, once we get home
and we min-max everything and you have like a group
of like, you know, three mages, a lock and a priest
or warrior, whatever, and you're just doing a perfect pull,
like obviously it's gonna be a lot easier, but still,
but still.
Now, some players may find this prison familiar, and no, I'm not implying you're a bunch of
criminals.
Although, there may be a few devilish rogues among you, but no, this prison is famous because
it's rumored to be the place where the Defias once held high-ranking nobles for ransom.
It was at one point even rumored to have held King Varian Rin himself.
In the past, we were able to go visit this location, but we couldn't actually go inside.
In forever, of course, now you can.
I don't even know if you consider going down there to clear the place out.
There seemed to be some sort of conflict happening between the Defias and the Naga inside, so
now would be an opportune time to move.
You'll want to make sure you're ready to pull up a fight though, so a group's around
level 48 to 53 should do it.
Okay, so currently on Al-Qa'z Island, there's level 60 elites there, if I'm not mistaken.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
There's definitely like high level elites, right?
So I wonder what their doctor weevils there
and there's like 60 elites.
So I would assume they're removing those
if the dungeons for like 30s and 40s.
There's an AQ quest that goes there,
the .5 quest that goes there.
So yeah, I would assume they have to remove that.
But having a dungeon there is sick.
Very, very, very sick.
There's a raid boss there, weevil.
Yeah, I've tried to kill Weevil before, unsuccessful.
But that guy, that guy slaps.
Ah, the Shapers Terrace.
Where have I heard those words before?
There's so many dungeons.
Oh my gosh.
And rather lichking classic,
I recall there was an old Titan facility.
Dude, is, was anyone expecting,
how many dungeons is there?
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine.
Is there nine new dungeons?
Nine? Was anyone expecting nine new dungeons?
I was expecting like...
Three, four?
Nine is crazy.
Within a show was our basin.
But were there others?
What happened to them?
Anyway, perhaps one of our most treacherous locations yet,
in the hills of Unboro Crater, lies a place seemingly untouched by time.
I've heard it described as, I quote,
a whole lot like Jurassic Park, whatever that means.
There are old Titan buildings scattered throughout the area,
wildlife running amok,
beautiful power crystals scattered throughout,
and you guessed it,
there must be some source of power here, right?
Well, if you're interested,
perhaps you can go in and investigate if your levels 58 to 60 maybe.
I love I don't know why you would want to venture into a stronghold crawling with ogres
But if you're into that sort of thing
I've got the opportunity for you in the river glades
Outrunners have been kidnapping folks and I've heard several ran faffings have occurred within the region
Sturdy adventurers in the level 40 to 55 range could potentially put up a fight and and the ogres
mischief in the region, but the war so 40 to 45 for this one is a perfect level range
in between we were just talking about, SM and RFD kind of end at 40, 42, and you're just like,
okay, I don't want to do it again. But an old man, you don't really want to be like that first half
run and SM isn't, sorry, Zulfurok isn't until like 45 ish. So 40 to 45 is great. It's, yeah,
Yeah, it's 45, 40 to 45, she misspoke, yeah.
So 40 to 45, so it'll help you bridge that gap
between SM and Zulfurok.
So this is a key one, this is really good.
Born in the twilight hours of the night,
I've heard weird chanting coming from the place.
Could it be cultists?
But back to nature, in times past I could have sworn,
I remember standing before a gate in Azhara
and wonder what was on the other side.
I tell you, but if you're around levels 55 to 60,
you might as well go check it out for yourself.
A great furbolg city lies within,
but if you're familiar with the furbolg's plight,
well, I suspect they might be struggling
to stave off some sort of corruption.
It could be very dangerous.
The tunnels leading into Black Maw Hold
run deep and wind far into the mountain.
In fact, should you decide to explore these tunnels,
you might find yourself in an entirely different
kind of danger.
Which brings us to our first raid.
To the night elves, the Barrow Deep is a sacred place.
While there may be a variety of barrow dens scattered
throughout the land, it is said that the winding tunnels
lead to one pivotal location we call the Barrow Deep.
None truly know how far or how deep these tunnels run,
but it must be massive.
The night elves hold some of their most dangerous prisoners
in this location. In fact, Rimmer has it. An infamous demon hunter was once kept here.
Perhaps he'll get to see his prison. The night elves are hesitant to let anyone in,
including allies. But I've heard that, like the furbolves of Black Maw Hold, they may be dealing
with some sort of corruption. But these dangers are no joke. In fact, if I were you, I'd send no
less than 10 of my greatest adventurers.
But we've got more danger in store.
At the Battle for Mount Hygel, Malfurion Stormrage
chose to sacrifice the power sustaining the Night Elves
immortality for a chance to defeat Legion Commander
Archimonde.
It worked, but I mean, holy smokes.
Coming to terms with losing one's immortality
mustn't be easy.
And there must be some who disagree with his decision,
right?
Anyway, fast forward to today.
and we're hearing reports that someone or something
has been draining the power from the land surrounding
the Paijil summit.
Now, like the Barrow Deepes, you'll want to be prepared.
If you were to send, say, 20 of your finest,
I'd say you'd have a reasonable chance of surviving.
This is by far our largest raid in Wau-Forever.
Beautiful snowy peaks tower over the area.
A raging river carves a path through ancient elven ruins.
The whispering of ghosts from the Third War can be heard.
Wow. There's plenty of adventure to be had and perhaps plenty of power to be had as well.
Legendary power.
Legendary quest.
This is...
Tier set.
Wait, I haven't seen these.
Craft and...
That hunter one looks cool.
That version is at an all time high between the horde and the alliance. Rest assured,
you'll get to...
Oh, is this the mage one? Shoot, I don't know if I like the mage one. Is that Druid?
That one looks kinda cool. I don't feel like the major one at all.
Do get out in the classic battlegrounds you've always known and loved, but we have something more for you.
Off the coast of Kalimdor lies the Darkspear Islands.
A strategic location for those seeking to gain an upper hand in the conflict.
This is a 15 versus 15 battleground that follows the same rule set as Eye of the Storm.
If you want to win, you'll need to control strategic positions throughout the islands.
The catch is that this battleground features a rapy basin style capture points.
You'll need to interact with a flag, then stand to defend it to secure that location.
Or, you guessed it, you'll be joining the Dark Spear Trolls as they fight to eradicate the alliance from their islands.
An alliance you are to report to the Theramore Expeditionary Force for deployment.
We've also spent a lot of time-
Wait, wait, wait, can someone-
Wait, you're gonna get-
Is there PvE mobs like a MOBA?
So you're gonna be like PvPing,
but there's also gonna be mobs coming through.
Did I hear that right?
It's like eye of the storm,
but there's gonna be help from the trolls.
Oh no, okay, okay, no, no.
It's just like eats, okay.
It's just like more like eats.
Okay, I misunderstood.
I thought you were gonna get like help from like trolls.
Once you got the flag, then it would be harder to, okay.
They get about classes.
It's just a lore.
Back in 2005 and 2006, the class team
modestly redesigned several of the talent trees,
such as priests, mage, hunter, druid.
They made, the changes they made back then
weren't really about making every class equally good
at everything.
Rather, they wanted each class to feel unique.
They wanted to give us a reason to bring each class
on our next adventure.
Oh my gosh, I just, oh my gosh, that is so good.
Classic philosophy is so good.
Like, here's what happened somewhere along the lines.
Right?
Back in the day, if you wanted strong AOE and you were a rogue,
you would re-roll to a class with strong AOE,
if that's what you wanted.
Because rogues were the best at, like,
stealthing and ganking people and, like, world PVP.
And that was cool.
And they were great at, like, single-target DPS on a boss
and PVE.
But, like, you couldn't have it all.
So if you don't like your class, go to one that you do.
But somewhere along the lines, I don't know exactly, but it was like the slow trickle,
especially in Legion when Mythic Plus came out, and afterwards, it was like, well, we
can't just have a class with no AoE because Mythic Plus exists.
We need to give every class AoE so that they can play and do big pulls, or else we can't
just have rogues not compete at all in speed clearing dungeons.
We need to give every class AoE.
We need to give every class more mobility too,
because then that Mythic Plus would just be like
five mages, or like four mages and a priest.
We can't have that.
We need to have more class diversity in Mythic Plus.
So let's give everyone a little more mobility,
everyone a little more AOE,
and it became this homogenized game.
And I get it, right?
In a modern game where Mythic Plus
and there's rating on the line,
you have to balance in this way.
You have to give every class all these things,
or else you just have to re-roll to the OP stuff.
But in classic WoW, there is no rating system.
It's like, you have a system where it's like,
I have this class and this is what I do well,
which also means this is what I don't do well,
which is so critical.
And it's like, if you don't like your class,
then play the class you do like,
instead of let's give everything to everyone.
It's such a critical point, right?
It's such a critical point.
The changes we've made in classes and WoW forever,
follow that same spirit.
We want to cover gaps where they exist, but we don't want...
What do mages not do well?
That's not the point.
To erase what makes each class unique.
For example, Paladins, there's a new seal that allows you to tank a bit more effectively.
If healings your jam, you might find talents that enable you to do a bit, just a bit, of
group healing.
The threat paladins, I don't know.
Maybe now's your time to shine.
We've moved away from talents that simply give you
small incremental improvements, and have instead
tried to give you talents that you'd notice.
You may find yourself in situations
where you're making real, meaningful trade-offs,
depending on how you want to build your character.
But that's not all.
Waffle River is huge.
And you've got hundreds of brand new items
to look forward to, including all sorts of really fun
an exciting on use and on equip effects.
Okay.
I want to pause here.
I'm a little nervous about Power Creep.
I've told Blizzard this,
but like something like White Mane's Chappelle,
I'm saying that wrong,
20 healing power, seven damage done,
reduces the cast time of spells and effects
that were five targets by 20, that's fine.
I'm a little nervous about Power Creep
If items at this level are gonna be this strong,
like in Season of Discovery,
they kind of made items in BFD so good
that like they just had to keep making them stronger
and stronger and like that's scary.
I'm a little nervous about Power Creep.
Little nervous about it, definitely.
Crave for Robert's shovel, 3.7 speed, one or two top end,
attack power, attack power against Undead.
dig up a grave usable at Ravenhill Cemetery
in Scarlet Monastery graveyard, 20 charges.
So I don't know exactly what that does,
but what I do really like about this
is that you're giving an item,
a specific unique use that's like kind of cool
in a specific area of the world.
This is an example of horizontal progression, in fact.
For example, you might replace this shovel, it's a level 23,
you might replace the shovel at 27, but whatever this does,
might be pretty darn good if you happen to be in SMGY at level 29,
so you could keep it to use the on use even though you replace the item.
This kind of stuff is awesome.
This kind of stuff is very, very, very cool.
Need bank space?
Yeah, that'll be the big problem.
We definitely need much larger banks.
but like horizontal progression style stuff is very cool. I like that.
Touch of the Grave. Your spells and attacks. So this is just the retail one.
I don't know if I'm a big fan of this for Classic. This is just the copy pasted
Touch of the Grave from Retail. I don't know if I love this.
It's an unnoticeable thing. It's like 4% of your damage, 3%. I don't know. I don't know if I love it.
Big game hunter damage dealt versus beast increased by five
Like that's okay. That's kind of whatever title charm stuns targets for three Naga are sent for five and are fun 80% of the cooldown
Huh?
interesting, okay, and
Then a throwing weapon okay for example check out this short from cutlery
I found backstage which you could equip as your farm weapon and possibly related we have this grave robbers shovel for
you know, when you want to dig a grave.
Anyway, we've gone through and made a variety of updates
and existing items and rewards throughout the games.
Check out the title charm, now super effective against certain sea dwellers,
and White Mane's Chippewa, which has increased the healing and damage done
alongside a reduction in the past time of resurrection spells.
Now, let me touch on race abilities in WoW Forever.
We want to give you reasons to want to spin up a new character
character and embark on a new journey, which is why we've done a pass over
race abilities to make them feel more distinct, more unique, such that each race
has something special to bring that other races do not. You can see a sneak
peek of a few of our upcoming racial passives, a 5% increase of damage dealt
against beasts if you're a dwarf, and a 5% chance to drain health from your
target if you're undead, but I highly encourage you to check out tomorrow's
wow forever deep dive panel where my friends will go into a lot more detail
on what I've teased today but I'm an introvert and it's time for me to call
back into the shadows from whence I came so I'm gonna go ahead and hand things
off to our wonderful production director playstone who'll share even more fun
an exciting WoW Forever updates.
Play hard!
Nora, crush it!
Obviously, shit!
Bye!
Alright, and here we go!
I missed this panel!
This is actually the most important, biggest panel I missed it!
This is crazy!
There's a lot here!
How did I miss this one?
I hit everything at BlizzCon besides this.
The reason I missed this one is I was playing the demo.
Like, they said, oh, you can play the demo right when this panel went live.
And I was like, should I watch the panel or play and everyone wanted me to play.
So I was playing the demo.
Thanks, Nora.
And hello, BlizzCon!
My name is Clay Stone, and I'm the Associate Production Director.
Someone in the chat goes, dude has two minerals.
That's a name.
What a Chad.
Clay Stone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
On the WoW Classic and WoW Forever team.
So we've talked a lot about things you might be expecting, but let's take a minute and
talk about some things perhaps you weren't expecting.
Let's start with our rendering updates.
You have to see a bit of this in our gameplay trailer during the opening ceremony, and admittedly
we went pretty hard.
That every zone is going to be set at sunrise or sunset all the time.
But I want to make a bold, controversial statement.
We believe WoW Classics art style is timeless.
Which is why our focus was not on changing the game art, but on small ways we could push
specifically things like the environmental effects.
Such as the way rivers now flow in Elwynn Forest.
pretty cool. I can't believe the crowd didn't cheer there. That's like sick.
Or the way the fog rolls into duskwood at night. Or the way the moonlight now
breaks through the leaves of the trees in Ashenvale. It's the same original
Asroth that players fell in love with all those years ago with just a few small but powerful
effects updates to make it more immersive than ever. Next, let's talk. I wonder what kind of
customization options are in the game. Like for example with lighting, if you turn everything
down to like one or zero or off or whatever if there's like on off, I wonder if the game almost
looks like the original game, and if you just start turning this up, if it just starts to
feel more lively. For example, fog. Is there a fog slider? Is there a fog on off? Is there
a fog 1 through 10? Like, because that's interesting. I don't know. Right? A foggle,
a foggle, so to speak. Yeah, a toggle for the fog. That's right. If there is, that's pretty cool.
You know because then you can kind of customize these things
Camping
So in addition to the new professions content arriving elsewhere in while forever with camp. Oh you guys are all linking this
Graphics slider, this is Savics
Oh, we try everything
Yeah, I'll show you like
Wait a minute my game
wait a minute how is he here my game doesn't didn't have the options to change
the graphics oh so no graphic actually looks very similar to how it did oh my
god this looks like a private server yeah yeah no graphics actually looks very
similar to how it did so my my game client I try to do this this was all
great out. I couldn't do this. So if you want to just turn off all of the graphics, it is kind of
like OG. It looks worse. Well, right. Yeah, it looks worse. Okay, so let's take a look at these
options. Secondary lighting. Oh, you see, you can change secondary lighting. Few distance,
projection textures, spell density, texture, outline depth, SS AO Park, let's say liquid,
detail shadow. I wonder about Fog. I wonder where Fog kind of plays in here. Pretty cool though.
Pretty cool that you can actually mess around with some of those. Anyway, I'll keep watching.
nurturing and protecting social experiences,
this is one of those things we're talking about.
And because players need to sit there for a moment
before they gain any buffs,
maybe, just maybe, they just might talk to each other.
True.
Like, so this is one of the reasons
I really liked boats being added,
I like more boats being added,
because boats are one of the features of the game
where like you have to run up and wait for a boat
for like 30 seconds or a minute or two minutes
if you're unlucky even longer.
And like, that's when you might inspect someone's gear
or send a duel out or just chat for a second
where you headed or whatever.
Like creating moments where you actually have to just
sit there for a second is sick.
It slows the pace down.
Contrast this to retail where there's ports everywhere,
flying mounts go 300%, actually 700% now, 600,
like it goes so fast that there's never any downtime
actually just sit there and chat.
I really, really enjoy things like this
or things like waiting for a boat
or waiting for a Zeppelin
instead of just teleporting everywhere.
Dude, I also really appreciate the fact
that we have some SD characters here
instead of the HD retail models.
Looking very fine.
legacy system. If camping is us doubling down on trade skills and community, WoW Forever's
new legacy system will see us tripling down on an element of classic that is only found
in classic, the one to 60 leveling journey. For as epic as Endgame is, and I promise
you while forever's endgame is epic. We know that there are some players who just love the
classic leveling journey. It's actually crazy. The majority of players in classic era, just
like level hit 60, they might attune for a raid, get their pre-biss, hit a raid or two,
and quit. That is the majority of people. It's not actually a subset. It is the game
for most. Obviously a lot of people raid too and that's awesome. So many people do this.
It's crazy. So building the game around this is huge.
Although the legacy system benefits everyone, it very much aids players who love to run
alts as they unlock new perks across their alts by achieving new goals on each new leveling journey.
We are really excited about this one and how well it fits in the classic wild design philosophy.
Now, I'd like to switch gears and talk about the community.
The legacy system we already covered, there's things I like and don't like.
Like the big one that I don't like is talent points starting at level five.
I think that's too impactful, especially at a low level, especially for like 19 twink
battle crowns, especially for like the deadlines like early on, you just have way stronger
abilities or like you're doing SM at 35 and you have a 40 capstone talent.
Like I don't know, I don't like that, but I like the rest.
Um, okay.
And if there's one thing I've learned in my time as part of this community,
it's that players love to debate what is and is not classic.
Players discuss in social, in forums, and even make polls.
And if there's one thing every player agrees on, it's what is classic plus.
I took this survey, I was like, oh my gosh, yes, Blizzard is going to see this and we're
going to be able to have proof and say, look, this is what we want, Blizzard, now you can
do it.
In reality, after looking at this data, it's like, it's the exact opposite of what I thought.
Oh my gosh, like it's literally proving
that like nobody knows what they want.
Like that's hilarious, bro.
Yep, yep.
Okay, I didn't realize.
Okay, so this was when that happened.
Okay, that's kind of crazy.
They, that was on my mind about big stage.
Okay, yeah, that makes me a little nervous.
Kind of sick though too.
Same shirt.
Let me see.
You know, it's actually a different shirt.
See the color?
This one's a bit wider.
That color is actually kind of more like that.
Yeah.
It's also, this shirt's a slightly different color, too.
If you look at the color, that's a little different.
But I see what you guys are trying to say.
What do they want?
Like, that's hilarious, bro.
So, since we're all in agreement on what we want,
Let's talk TRANSMog!
So they use that clip to basically be like, look guys, you're pretty split on this one.
Like, okay.
Now some of you are saying, yes, finally.
This is my moment.
I feel seen.
But we know, some of you are saying Transmog?
Not in my classic plus.
True. That's me, yeah.
We say, is it too much to ask for both?
In WoW Forever, Transmog is entirely opt-in.
If you want to turn it on, it's on,
and everyone you see in the world can look their very best.
But for classic players,
Especially those of us who enjoy world PVP.
Many of us want to see other players for who they truly are and what they've accomplished.
So, turn it off.
And it's clown suits for everyone.
Yeah! Okay, okay.
Like, look, bro, I like, I respect the toggle, bro.
Like, I think this is smart.
Look, I'm the guy that's like, I would rather just have it out completely,
but for people that like only play the game
for like fashion or whatever, like whatever.
But like, dude, the toggle is sick.
For any of these decisions Blizzard is facing,
where it's like this 50-50 split
and you don't know what to do,
the toggle is the key thing here.
You just do both and you give the player the choice.
Like it's so nice, so, so, so sick.
Yeah, we have Transmog.
The toggle for that the fog, you know, this and that
Could be nice could be who knows top position though
Throughout the world you decide there is a lot more to learn about the classic
Modifications we've made to this system for those who choose to use it
Stop by tomorrow's deep dive panel to learn a lot more about this as well as the camping and legacy systems and much more.
So the big two toggles that we have right now are Transmog toggle on off and SDHD character models toggle on off.
Is there anything I'm missing? Are those the big two?
With graphics, of course, you can turn them up and down, but that's pretty standard.
I think those are the big two.
I think that they should add a third one, a UI toggle.
If they had a UI toggle, SDHD and transmog toggles,
those are the big three, I think.
The UI toggle, I think is,
like am I blowing this out of proportion?
I think a UI toggle is sick.
Yes, you can get an add-on.
But like the baseline experience, if you log in
and right away you're hit with the retail UI,
oh, it's not really the retail UI,
but a lot of elements of the retail UI, let's be honest,
Like, it's quite painful, right?
I think having that toggle would be sick.
I would love a toggle for a classic UI.
That would be dope.
Then you have a both.
Like, for the people that want the modern one, you have it.
For the people that like the classic one, you have it.
That would be great.
For now, let me move on to another absolutely not
at all controversial topic, character models.
Yeah.
Now, many players enjoy WoW's newer HD character models,
but many of us also feel that Classic's art style
is timeless, as I said before, and deserves to be preserved,
which is why we've made it completely toggleable, game-wide.
Your character, the NPCs, other player characters, together,
unified in either HD or SD.
For fellow Classic players, that means
you get to see all the beloved original races rendered
in their glorious original SD designs.
And for those of you who prefer a more modern aesthetic,
you can go with the modern HD designs.
You choose what you see.
Oh, and there is one more thing.
We feel like classics animations
are just as important as its art style.
Here, you will see a newer modern HD dwarf
running with its modern animation sets.
Now, let me show you that same HD dwarf running while attached to the classic animation sets.
So good.
So good.
Dude, I want to pull this, but I swear they should just take this one and push it to retail.
Like, I don't want to speak for all retail players here, but I feel like this just is
objectively better, man.
Like just, just bring this one to, no one likes the bounce, bounce, bounce, bro.
Like, just bring this one to retail.
this one out completely from read like this one is just so much better. I am so proud
to announce that we have gone back and painstakingly restored the classic animations you know and
love across the game's HD character models. That is awesome. That is a massive W man.
No bouncy dwarves in the skin.
Nice.
So let's see.
We talked about a few new zones, the new race, nine new dungeons, two new raids, classes,
systems.
But friends, this is only a glimpse of WoW forever.
We simply don't have enough time to talk about new professions content, new reputations,
all the new itemization rewards updates blowing up much of the old meta, the new piece of
the new PVP system,
our first new legendary,
our change to riding skill to preserve that classic, classic moment
when you finally earn your right to ride your first mount,
our official support of game pads for players who prefer to play using controllers,
playable this weekend on the show floor in an in-development state by the way,
way. And of course, the integration of previously unfinished and unused vanilla wow content.
So good. So good. I can't believe I missed this panel. This is all just amazing. But
that's all now. I want to take a second to talk about where we're going. We have learned
a lot since season of discovery, including the benefits of a strong roadmap, which is
why we are building WALF Forever in the way it was originally conceived back in the early
2000s, but with everything we've learned for the past 25 years. A fast-paced production
for a slow-paced game, which will allow us to deliver where we go from here. We have
big plans for the coming months.
You will see new raids unlock on December 9th,
followed by even more new raids, new dungeons,
PvP updates, world content, and so much more.
All in addition to the original Vanilla WoW content.
And this includes new quests throughout the leveling
one through 60 journey, as we add
to this horizontally expanding
Evergreen Classic Azeroth.
Oh my God, bro.
I like that.
Yeah, I'm going to have him say that again,
because that was the perfect sentence right there.
So this horizontally expanding Evergreen Classic Azeroth.
Horizontally expanded Evergreen Classic Azeroth.
I mean, that is the perfect sentence.
That's exactly what we wanted, man.
Holy crap.
Yes. What a great sentence.
And I want to take a second to briefly point to that major updates box right
there in summer at the far end.
It's a few words there that say revamped iconic raid.
There's been a lot of speculation about when this game could take place,
which is why I want to reiterate that this game takes place at the beginning
of World of Warcraft until.
Oh yeah, by the way, I'm sure Soda already touched on this, but this being the hardcore flag,
probably means hardcore drops in summer. I think they talked about that at some point, right? Hardcore's coming out later. Summer hardcore flag, right? Summer?
No, wrong. Oh, it's in winter. Oh, why would this, does this not look like the hardcore flag? All right, we'll keep watching then.
men. The story is authentic to that time period. The original iconic raids that you know and love
have not opened yet and we're excited for you to rediscover them in the future.
But friends this is just a taste of the year of the year ahead and not even a peak at where
we're planning to go beyond this. However big you think this game is based on what you've seen so
far I promise you it is so much bigger than that. Our ambition is mighty but most importantly
We have room to pivot based on community feedback.
We are building this game with you, and we are not just building for today,
but for something that lasts.
And nothing is off the table, not even a new class.
Going back to this road map, you may have noticed there's a big gap right there, right
around the winter time frame.
Let's discuss that.
But first, I want to take a second to talk about a picture.
A picture that was framed and has hung on my wall at Blizzard since 2023.
Our core represented a turning point for us as a team.
We had tried a few things before it, and as Ian covered, we've absolutely tried new things
since.
But Hardcore represented the moment when Blizzard and the community came together and showed
not only why World of Warcraft is one of the greatest games ever made, but why that
original adventure still holds so much promise for where we could go in the future.
Which is why I'm also so proud to announce that Hardcore will be coming too loud forever.
Oh my god.
Alright guys, yeah.
Content lineup is going to be insane.
We're going to play WoW Forever until Hardcore WoW Forever and then we're going to play Hardcore
WoW Forever.
We're going to play Forever Hardcore WoW Forever.
So we're going to play Forever Forever then Forever Hardcore WoW Forever.
Back and forth.
And when there's new content updates, I'll play it normal first on normal WoW Forever
first and play with my guild and clear it and then once we get bored we'll do it on hardcore
and then we'll just do it on normal on the next one and then do it on hardcore again and we'll just
be bouncing back between hardcore and normal forever forever. There it is.
Please check out the Hardcore panel tomorrow for a look at Wow Forever Hardcore.
To me, Hardcore was the start of a promise.
And Wow Forever is not some experimental c-
Wait, okay, so this is vague.
Okay, does this flag not look like hardcore to you guys?
Okay, I guess this one looks way more like hardcore,
but this one's also black.
No, okay, whatever, whatever, that's not the point.
The point is, between winter and spring, what is this?
So this is December 9th, it's after December 9th,
but before spring, it's like January?
January, February?
So this is only things three.
Right, this is only things three.
I would assume.
I mean, I'm sure SOTA has talked about it,
but like that's gonna be insane.
That is going to be absolutely,
like right when this launches,
it will probably be only things three, day one, right?
Leaked, I'm sure SOTA has talked about that.
There's no way.
There's no way SOTA hasn't talked about that.
We've literally said we're waiting for Classic Plus,
because remember only things three was supposed to be in TBC and we pushed it.
There we go.
He hasn't.
Dude, there's a 0% chance, so it hasn't said only things three is with Classic Plus.
Come on, guarantee you trolls.
I'm not leaking anything.
It was the start of a promise.
And WoW Forever is not some experimental seasonal realm nor some recreation of
where we've already been.
Wow Forever as a name and a logo represents a promise.
And if you happen to pick up the collector's edition, we hope you love the logo on the box.
And when you open that box, we hope you love it on the game box.
And when you see what else is inside that box, we hope you love...
That's sick.
We hope you love your very own dwarf and bear statue, which signifies where this all began.
not just with hardcore, but also way back in November of 2004.
Bro, that, I've never bought a collections edition before.
This one kind of makes me want to.
Like, I wonder the scale of that.
Like, that is so cool, bro.
That is so cool.
It's sold out.
Yellow me send some DMs here.
Blizzard, we gotta save one of these, man.
We gotta send some DMs here.
like blizzard I might need one of these are you kidding me yo yo because that that is sick
that is really cool
on behalf of the wild classic team and the entire world of warcraft team thank you
you. When I started on Classic, our dream was to get here. We are here because of you.
Thank you for being here. Thank you for your feedback. Thank you for believing in this
dream. I'll see you in-game on November 4th. Beta starts this Thursday and you can play
the demo here today. Have a great rest of your day everyone.
Bro, I can't believe I missed that.
Are you kidding me?
I actually can't believe I missed that.
That panel was legendary.
That gave us like all the info.
Okay, now I feel like we can even talk about more.
Very good panel.
Very, very good panel.
Did I watch the hardcore panel?
Yeah, I watched everything else.
This is the only one I missed.
The reason I missed it is because I was playing the game on the floor.
Very, very safe panel.
I need that statue of my life.
Yeah, I kind of need that one too.
Am I going to do a PvP server or a normal PvP?
Have you seen this fog trailer?
I think I probably have.
Between the well-worn pages of the history we know,
lie the stories we haven't heard.
Countless adventures, untold.
Wait a minute, is this?
Oh, it's a parody video.
Oh, it's a parody video.
I was like, I thought you linked me something
from the Warcraft YouTube,
and I'm like, bro, I can't see anything.
I thought this was legit from BlizzCon.
I was like, dude, there's no way.
The time when it all began
through the hidden paths in ancient forests,
above and beyond the million peaks,
Your journey awaits.
Let the drum use of the war.
I can't see anything!
And I can't see anything!
Forever.
Wow, fuck, Amber.
Is there any fuck in the layer?
Distance, for very particular purpose.
Related to game of war.
HAHAHAHAHA
Bro, that is legendary
Oh my gosh
Bro, that is so good
Holy crap
Oh man, guys, I lost my voice
and then it came back and I feel like I'm losing it again
Oh no
Oh gosh
Yeah, I totally thought that was legit
When you said have I seen this, I was like, yeah, I mean if it's
it was at BlizzCon, I probably saw it
between the well-worn page you just can't see anything ally or horde in the
beta I actually don't know for the beta I'll see whatever one wants to do I
actually wouldn't mind doing horde for the beta since I'm gonna play ally at
launch yeah I don't know I don't know I wouldn't mind I don't care about the
beta man like we'll just play play both play whatever
Yeah, thanks for the prime and can we see your mage filled on forever talents calm. Yeah, can you say
Dude
How hype is that? Wow forever. Oh
My gosh, it's just separate from classic
Retail you just have this forever button. Oh main game. Yeah, this will be the main game for for for forever
Yeah, let's take a look at these talents. So I haven't covered these yet
Starter edition yeah, I haven't bought it yet
And I kind of kind of get that
All right, I
I don't like they put HC too early. What do you mean? I think like having it to latest kind of nice
Change gender at the hairdresser
And I don't think we're supposed to change the body type to
And I don't think we're supposed to change the body type to
Like it's one thing if there's a oh skin cut oh
Okay, I don't like that from the barber. You could change everything like maybe just you know how in catta
I think it was catta where it was only hair color and style like that's one thing
Yeah, I don't I don't like that
Why not the reason it's important and I covered this a bit ago, but we'll say it again
The reason it's a point of conversation is like when you're playing classic Wow
and you see someone run by and they're that little gnome
with green pigtails with a certain name you can like
Point them out and be like oh, that's that guy I ran the dungeon with it's the gnome with the green pigtails
Right and you can continue to see these like familiar faces
And I think as soon as you can start changing
Gender hair style color face features job you get to just change your whole character whenever you want
it just kind of gets a little troll.
So I don't like that.
Now, if they just did the hairstyle,
kind of like the catabarber, I think that's like okay.
But doing everything, I mean, I wouldn't vote for it.
Joma, thanks for the tier one, man.
Two days, thanks for the bit saying,
wrong calculator, use talentsforever.com.
So instead of wow forever talents, it's talentsforever.
Is there better, are these ones wrong?
I'm already on this site.
It's less broken.
Talents forever.
You guys want this one?
Oh wow, dude, wow.
This website is really well made.
Geez.
This looks like very legit.
Holy crap.
All right.
I think it's it's made by AI. I mean it's it looks
Looks a lot better than the other side this one looks very clean. I will say that all right, um
Let me turn my audio down just a tad
Okay, so let's take a look at Mage talents. Um, I've already seen them
add BlizzCon, but it's hard to like think when there's like so much noise and this and that.
So now that we're home, let's take a look at the Mage talents. I've looked at,
I actually looked at all the talents across the board, and there's some like Paladin that
have like completely reworked like so many changes, like I don't want, I don't know,
of 10 or 20 changes, like almost everything is a little different, like new, different,
new, like, like almost everything, whereas Mage is one of those where there's a handful
of changes, almost like, like four changes, like Iceland's fingers, a frost, missile Parage,
hot streak, like four changes, like across the entire, like all the trees.
said that majors were already in a great spot and they don't need a lot of changes, right?
Arcane blast dudes, maybe like five, like they don't need as much love. But let's let's
take a look anyway. Do a compare button. Oh, there's a compare button compared to classic.
Oh, cool. Oh my gosh, whoever made this website crush it. Moved same effect. Classic is that
and forever is that.
Oh wow, this website is incredible.
Holy crap.
Thanks, Cloud.
Wow.
Wait, is it Cloud or Claude?
Claude, Cloud, Claude?
Claude, it's probably Claude.
Whoa.
Anyway.
That's not the point.
The point is there's not that many changes here on Mage.
Okay.
Maybe I will actually just keep this up.
Okay, increases your damage with wands hit chance with arcane and improve channeling gives you chance to interrupt
Um, this also now extends to arcane blast whereas before was just missiles. I think that's good
So like in terms of arcane, I'm actually
Like generally happy with the arcane flow. Why?
You have arcane blast which procs arcane
barrage, which gives you a really compelling reason to then use arcane missiles. You have
arcane explosion for AOE. You have presence of mind and arcane power as like these big
damage burst cooldowns, right? So you have cooldowns, you have procs and you have a rotation
and the rotation is not one button and it's also not 10 buttons, it's going to be maybe
two or three, right? For classic, well, this makes a lot of sense. I actually quite like it.
I don't have much criticism here. It's very basic. It's very bland. It's not like crazy
complicated. It's just like, cool, okay, we're just going to be sending out arcane blasts.
It stacks up. We're going to be sending missiles. When we get these barrage procs,
There's no arcane barrage, by the way, yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't mind it.
Fire, wake a fire, reduces the cooldown of your fire blast by one second, two
seconds, and killing a non-trivial target increases the critical strike
chance of your next fire blast and then 20 seconds by 50%. Okay, so let me just
start by saying fire is one of the trees that I think needs some work. Fire, when
I played it is literally just spam fireball. You're not really going to use scorch in a
dungeon or while leveling. You would use it like end game PvE, but not really while leveling.
Pyro Blast, you never really got a chance to use while leveling because you never really
got procs, which we'll talk about in a second. So it's literally one button still. That's
problematic. It should probably be at least two, maybe three, maybe four, but like, you
not 10 and not 1, right? 1 is not good enough. So that's fire is problematic. Let's talk about
this first talent. This talent is problematic. Why? This is essentially the same talent as rogues have.
This is essentially remorseless attacks. After killing a non-trivial enemy, it gives you an
increased crit chance. Why does this work for rogue? This works for rogue because they aren't mana users.
This works for Rogue because they're energy users.
After you get a kill, you can stealth and get crit on your next ambush. That's huge.
With Mage, this talent doesn't work.
You need to drink in between pulls.
Fire Blast is a very high mana spell ability.
You can't use Fire Blast on cooldown or else you're um.
And after you kill a mob, you need to drink, so it's gonna be off.
This needs to be either removed or reworked. It's not good.
It's completely removed, honestly. Just rework the whole thing.
This should just be replaced.
Incineration, don't mind it.
Good, early crit.
Fireball, cast time.
Frostfirebolt, cast time.
So if they bring a Frostfirebolt spec in, I'm very happy.
I'm one of those players that always enjoyed using Frostfirebolt
because it was a really, really cool thing
to double dip with ice shards and ignite.
Where is Ignite?
Now that I have like time to actually sit here, oh here it is.
So yeah, double dipping ice shards and Ignite is just a really cool thing.
So for me, the Frost Firebolt build with ice shards, with piercing ice, with frost channeling,
but also benefiting from Ignite, improved fireball, hot streak, just cool.
So I hope, I really hope we can do a build like this.
I'm just theory-crafting.
Okay, so you would get fingers of frost.
So your frosts, fire bolts can proc fingers of frost.
That could benefit from shatter on fingers of frost.
That could benefit from piercing ice, frost, channeling and ice shards, and elemental precision.
So that's what you would get in frost.
And then fire, you would go fireball, increase crit, ignite.
and then pyro and hot streak.
I'm just kind of spitballing here, but like something and then master of elements and critical mass
and probably improve scorch and probably firepower.
Yeah, this build would be so fun.
This build would be so fun to play.
So basically you're spamming
Frost fire bolt the frost fire bolts gonna crit
It's gonna proc ignite. You have your ice lance with your fingers of frost
You have your stacking hot streaks for pyro blast you send the pyro which is gonna get ignite and crit
I would love that anyway. Um, that's not what we're talking about right now
We're talking about the fire tree. So I don't like wake of fire. I do so incineration improved fireball
impact, flame throwing, ignite. Not a lot has changed here. Hot streak. You're
non-periodic critical strikes with fireball, frost fireball, fire blasts,
and scorch grant hot streak. Hot streakers the cast mark pyro by 25 stacking up to
three times. Okay, so let's talk about the redesigned hot streak. 25 up to three
times is not an instant pyroblast.
Oh, it doesn't get consumed.
I didn't realize it didn't get consumed.
So when you get hot streak, it's 15 seconds period.
So you just start spamming pyros over and over.
It's not meant to be.
Do you guys think it's one pyro?
And they typoed this?
Or do you think it's just 15 seconds of spamming pyro?
It's probably one.
probably supposed to be one. Okay, so let's assume it's one and it's a typo. I
can't imagine it's more than one. Okay, so basically it's only one Pyroblast
that you cast quickly. But to get there you need three crits. In low-level
level dungeons effectively, what this means is nothing. Three crits at low level is pretty
much not happening before the mob is going to die unless it's on a boss. This is a dead
talent in a dungeon while leveling. So you're one to 60 experience. This is also kind of
a dead talent in killing one mob for a quest, a non elite mob for a quest, getting three
crits is a dead talent. It's a dead talent. You're not going to get three crits before
the mob said. Maybe if you did three, four, five mobs in a row, you would get a chance
to do one pyro at a quick cast. That doesn't feel good. I think fire needs work. This as
this currently is, this is, this is not good. This is a one button spec and this chance to
press that second button almost never happens outside of end game rating. This needs work.
is not good how it currently is. So hot streak needs changed again. I think this is not good as
is and wake of fire needs changed. Everything else is how it is in classic. So the two new things
they added wake of fire and hot streak need changed. So we're going to need to think about
how this changed, like what do we actually do here?
What do we actually do here?
Wake of fire as fine as is, I completely disagree.
I covered that about two minutes ago.
I definitely do not like wake of fire.
Okay, let's keep reading down the tree.
Improve fire board.
Okay, improve scorch.
Okay, critical mass.
Okay. Blast wave.
Okay. Everything's about the same. Firepower. Okay. Combust. When activated, this spell causes each
of your fire damage spell hits to increase your critical strike chance with fire spells by 10%.
10% and this effect lasts until you have caused four non periodic crits with fire spells so from three to four, okay
Wow, this website's amazing. Holy crap. This website is so good
reread that one which one combust from three to four yeah
Fire plus damage and mana cost reduce which one's that I'm wake a fire
Ignite man this website is goaded holy moly dude
People are spamming like reread it, but I don't know if like there's a specific talent you want me to reread out loud for you guys
Thoughts can crit now. Yeah, true true
Everyone just keeps trying to re-read it, but I don't know if there's like one that that you guys want me to re-read out loud
Okay
Yep, that looks good this one's a dish 10% threat to
Hot streak, not three crits, you're non periodic critical strikes with fireball, frost fireball,
fire blast and scorch grant hot streak. Hot streak reduces the cast time of pyro by 25,
stacking up to three times. Yeah, got it. Yep, exactly what we thought it was when
we read it the first time. But if you guys miss it, I can read it a third time if you want.
Oh, that's, okay.
So fire needs some love.
I think Hot Shriek needs another redesign.
Wake a fire, don't like it.
For the reasons we already talked about,
Nuke and Bust is fine.
Fire needs a lot of love.
Arcane like it, fire needs love.
Let's go to Frost.
Okay.
Frost Warding increases the armor and resistance
given by your Frost Armor and Ice Armor spells by 30%.
In addition, it gives your Frost Ward
20% chance to reflect spells.
Okay.
Improved Frostbolt, got it.
Cast faster.
Hit chance, it just says hit now.
Cool, easy, got it, five points.
It is 5% now, versus three,
it was three points at 2% before something.
Okay, fine enough, fair enough.
Orisa the Cool on a Nova, got it.
Frostbite unchanged, permafrost.
Releases the target speed by national three
So it's just percentage based now I wonder how that like plays out but very similar crit chance got it
same frost channeling same
Ice lance, okay, so let's talk about ice lance for a second. It's it's what we expected
It's boring, but it's ice lance. I like it. I don't mind it. I think ice lance is cool
Um, they could have done something way different. I don't mind this. Yeah. Frost is one of those
specs, you know, it's like Iceland's is just so, it's almost hard to design frost without it. Like
it almost, I don't know, it makes a lot of sense. It's just very good. I like, I like it. I don't
mind it. Shatter fingers of frost. There's no deep freeze, which I like. I think there's no
No water elemental, which I like.
Fingers of frost, shatter.
I like all of this, really.
Improved conicold.
So improved conicold actually got nerfed.
Interesting.
Or maybe they just changed how much.
Now it's 35 total still.
Maybe they changed how much each rank did.
The first one's 12, 12, 12.
Okay, no, they just flattened the curve, maybe.
Kona Cold, this should maybe get buffed because there might not be a reason to ever use Kona
Cold if you have Ice Lance.
So the reason you use Top Rank Kona Cold in Classic is because you don't have Ice
Lance.
You want to use Kona Cold to do damage because there's no Ice Lance.
But now that there's Ice Lance, it's more damage, single target, and less mana cost.
So why would you ever use Kona Cold Top Rank?
Of course, we'll still use the rank one conical for slows, right?
Might need the buff conical a little bit,
not the E of Icelands, but I don't know,
maybe Winner's Chill looks about the same.
But it also works in Icelands, which is nice.
Ice barrier.
So Frost is very, very, very unchanged.
You get fingers of Frost, you get Icelands,
but you know what?
I think it'll play well.
It's a little boring, but I kind of like it.
Okay, so TLDR.
Arcane, I like frost, little boring,
but I like fire, needs a rework.
So let's start the conversation.
How are we gonna rework fire
for it to actually perform well in work?
Improved blizzard, gut nerf, let me take a quick look.
So it's 15 instead of 30, up to 27,
up to, oh, it's only 40.
How much was it total before in this one talent?
It was definitely like, wasn't it like 60 from this?
50.
It was 75, or 65 total, then it got buffed by permafrost
to like 75.
So I think this talent got nerfed from 65 to 40.
Is it crazy to say I actually kind of don't mind this.
I actually kind of like it and I'm a mage saying that why why do I think this is kind
of okay in PVP it is completely annoying to just not move and be 75% slower in Alteric
Valley in World PUP in Black Rock Mountain. Completely just not being able to move your
character isn't fun for anyone. I'm looking at 100 traps too. 100 traps you can leave on the
ground, at least with Mage you have to channel it, but still. Improved Blizzard being 40,
I think means you can still AoE grind. And AoE grinding with like Kona Cold and like Flame
Strike will probably still be a thing. And you can still use it. I don't know. I'll have to see
how this feels. I don't know if I hate this. And I'm a Mage saying that. We'll see how it feels.
But I don't think I immediately hate it, to be honest.
So this is an additional 9% slow, or an 11% slow.
It says 9 up top, 11 down bottom.
So it's going to be 51% slow.
I mean, that's still pretty fine to AOE grind.
Blizzard's slow not only lasts for a second and a half,
but it's channeled, so it keeps getting reapplied.
So you can still AOE with that, but it's
It's going to be a little more strategic.
You might have to like do a pull on a mount,
NOFA, Blizzard, no, read it.
It's effect lowers the target's movement speed
by 40% for 1.5 seconds.
Why would it not reapply?
I'm sure it would reapply.
Re-read it?
Yeah.
It does reapply, it doesn't reapply.
How would this not reapply?
I'm sure it re classic talent says the same thing adds a chill effect to your blizzard
this effect lowers the targets movements you by 30% last yeah I'm sure it would reapply
what you guys are trolling shadow is just dumb okay guys I mean hey maybe I'm wrong
here I don't know I haven't tried it but like based on how it reads it would reapply
every tick which means a we grinding is fine it's just a little harder you're not going
be able to just like blizzard an afk you might have to strategically blizzard once or twice
let the mobs come to you kona cold wait frost nova flame strike re kona cold it's it's going to be
more strategic but i think it's still doable perma frost has changed to 33 instead of three seconds
Okay, hold on.
We need to do some math here.
How long is cone of cold?
Okay, so cone of cold right now is a 10 second cool down and it lasts for 8 seconds.
for eight seconds for the slow.
I don't know if this is gonna be the same.
This is classic, right?
Yeah, it is.
Oh, look, forever, it's already here.
Wow, they already have a wow forever, wow head, that's sick.
Okay, so assuming that's the same,
it's eight seconds of the 10 second cooldown,
it's not 100% uptime,
but Permafrost gives you an additional 33% duration
on chill effects.
What's 33% of 8?
2.64.
Perfect. That's fine. As long as you can have 100% uptime on KonaCold,
that's fine. So that works. It's slightly nerfed.
It's going to be 10.4 seconds slow with a 10 second cooldown.
That's fine.
It's completely fine.
Tactics link to this website.
Oh man, there's so many websites.
Wow.
Not yet verified. Wow, that's crazy.
Anyway.
Anyway.
Any thoughts on the icy veins um I see what you're saying so like they have combustion they have arcane power
Maybe for us to get icy veins
Let me think about it for a second before I answer
Right now the frost PvE rotation is frost bolt frost bolt okay you get a crit ice lance ice lance frost bolt frost bolt frost bolt frost bolt
Okay, you get a crit ice lance ice lance
It's a little on the boring end, but, you know, it's better than one button, at least you have two.
Having a button to press to icy veins, cold snappery icy veins might make it interesting.
Yeah, I think I wouldn't mind icy veins. Yeah, I think I wouldn't mind it.
It's hard to have this conversation without everyone thinking I'm just a complete, like, like, mage bias, which I do have mage bias, but, like,
My priority is, I want the rotation in PvE to be fun,
and I also want the rotation while leveling
to not be just one button, I want it to be like two or three,
and I want the dungeon rotation to be not one button,
I want it to be two or three,
and I want the PvP to operate in a way that makes sense.
So like those are like the pillars, right?
The single target leveling,
the dungeon leveling experience,
the end game PvE experience, and the PvP experience.
I think I see veins probably add to all of those
without being 2-0-P.
So yeah, I think they probably should have IC Vins.
Fire, let's talk about fire.
Okay, let's talk about fire.
Fire doesn't hit any of these things except end game PvE.
Fire doesn't hit like PvP as fire as this spec
would just suck.
What are you gonna do?
Fish for crits forever to then cast a 1.5 second pyro?
No, fire would be awful.
Fire needs love and PvP.
Okay, fire for leveling.
single target. Oof, awful again. Needs leveling love. Needs PvP love. The end game PvE, it
kind of works as is because you have Scorch, you have Fire Blast, you have Fire Ball, and
you have Pyro. So the end game PvE kind of works, but Dungeon's awful again. What are
you going to do? Spam Fire Ball, mob's dead, don't get a crit, never get to use Hot Streak.
You're not going to get the killing blows for Wake of Fire, Wake of Fire is dead, Hot
streak is dead, the whole tree is dead, right? So how do you fix fire? And I'm not talking
about frostfireable, like hybrid frostfire, because that already seems cool. How do you
fix fire? Spreading ignite with fire blast, that's an idea. Spreading ignite, that could
totally work. You get a crit, you press fire blast, it spreads, that's the catamodal. It's
It's not broken.
It's fundamentally broken.
Like I'm saying, this is a lifelong mage, classic, long time classic Andy.
Yeah, it's fundamentally broken and it needs work.
Absolutely.
Living bombs.
So living bombs an option, spreading, spreading nights and option, living bombs an option.
What do you guys think about a consecutive crit talent on Fireball?
Was this added at some point?
Hold on, let me think.
I think this was added at some point.
I can't remember what expansion, Kata maybe, where every Fireball you press that doesn't
crit gives you stacking crit until one does.
in a dungeon, you could at some point be like, okay, I can work my way towards an eventual crit.
It's kind of like a bust. It's kind of like a bust, but baked into a fireball.
This wouldn't be very good on PVP because you can't cast fireball on PVP
by and large most of the time. This is to be like a PvE thing.
I'm thinking, I'm literally just thinking out loud here, how to make the spec viable.
Not for end game, but for like dungeons, for questing, for leveling, how to make the spec
interactive.
Because right now it lacks all of that.
Oh, thanks, babe.
Guys, we got some lunch here.
Ah, guys, I'm so happy to be home eating home cooked meals.
Last night, I had some food at home for the first time in a while.
Very nice breakfast this morning, eggs.
Haven't had eggs in a few days.
Oh, so nice.
Oh, it's so nice.
Okay, let's put the fireball consecutive crit thing on hold for a second.
How are we going to decide hot streak to where it's not OP, but it's usable when you're
farming mobs.
It's usable outside of end game PvE.
It's usable on Van Cleef.
It's usable on a mob that you're gonna kill in Duskwood.
How do you, like, because right now it doesn't, right?
It doesn't actually work.
If it doesn't consume stacks, it's usable.
True, that's actually true.
Assuming it does consume it, though.
Wake of Fire should be reworked
to reduce the fire blast cooldown and quick chance
at two out of two, making hot shrieks easier.
Okay, so maybe we start here.
Wake a fire, this doesn't work,
the reason it doesn't work is because between mobs
is a mage, you have to drink.
So if you get a killing blow and you get the wake of fire,
you can't actually use it because you have to drink
and if you spam fire blast, you're gonna go out of mana.
So it doesn't actually work in the mage kit,
so it needs to be removed.
So what do you redesign it to?
I like that.
Fire Blast having lower cooldown, higher crit.
The mana cost is still an issue.
If you have Fire Blast on a low cooldown and you spam it,
you will just go, um, very, very, very fast.
Like so it doesn't, maybe you keep the cooldown
of Fire Blast, but you make it,
this talent reduce the mana cost
and increase the crit chance.
Maybe that's what you do.
Reduce mana cost, increase crit
to give yourself more of a chance to get the crit.
Maybe that's the fix.
And if it crits, it's free.
Maybe Master of Elements should get buffed
to where your crits refund instead of 30%.
Because like the problem with Firewall leveling
is kind of similar to Destro, you just go oom instantly.
if you're going to use Fire Blast at all.
Maybe Master of Elements needs to be buffed.
How about Master of Elements buffed specifically
for Fire Blast to get 100% of your mana back
if Fire Blast crits?
That way, you're incentivized to actually use Fire Blast
without just perma-oom or something.
That might work.
I mean, I would need to sit here for like hours
to think about how to build this.
Mages are the OP AF just stop this okay I'm assuming you don't speak English as your primary
language but I'll explain this anyway we're not talking about Mages viability in terms
of their strength Mages are very good that's not the conversation we're having once again
I'll assume you're not an English speaker.
The conversation we're having is,
how do we make this spec feel fun to play?
Instead of pressing one button,
how can we press two or three in an interesting
and an interactive way?
Welcome to the conversation.
All right, Scorch, your Scorch spell has a 100% chance to cast your next target.
So Scorch looks very, very similar here.
Am I crazy to think?
We need some type of combustion mechanic baked in or something, like increasing crit.
The problem is, if you make fire good too good early,
it's gonna be super OP late.
So you want like a talent that's gonna help leveling,
that's not gonna just make the end game broken, right?
I like the idea of stacking crit.
I like the idea of mana back on fire blasts,
and I like the idea of increased crit on fire blast.
In season of discovery, fire blasts at 100% crit.
on retail fire blasts is 100% crit.
I don't think that fits in WoW forever.
It's too strong.
Ah man, I don't know.
I don't know.
It's just something I could think about for weeks I think.
Balefire bolt, I don't think balefire.
Theory crafting is exhausting, it really is.
It's like, man, how do you, how do you fix fire?
Someone said use fire, fire ball with missile barrage.
Mmm.
Okay. Let me say this.
Let me just pause the conversation
with the fire theory crafting.
Fire could be awesome.
If you build it, like, if you build it with Arcane to utilize Missile Barrage, awesome.
Like Fire Arcane, cool spec.
Spam Fireballs till you get Missiles then use Fireball and Missiles, so cool.
Love it, love it, love it.
Fire Frost, also very cool spec.
frost fire bolt and you double tip with frost buffs right and fire also awesome
love it so maybe fire but then but then you have the problem the fire is more
of a utility tree you can play fire frost or fire arcane and they're
interesting but fire fire is just one button I still don't like it like fire
Fire needs to be fixed right still
still
Is this assuming the hot streak tooltip is a typo? Yes
Yes, it is assuming the hot streak is consumed
Okay, let's let's assume for a second that there is no typo here and if you get hot streak
You get 15 seconds of reduced pyroblast cast time in other words
You can just spam Pyro. 1.5 second pyros over and over. Pyro, Pyro, Pyro, Pyro, Pyro.
Well, one, that would be really OP. But two, is that even fun? I don't know if I even like that.
It's not even that fun. You're just spamming Pyro. It's still one button. You're spamming it only for 15 seconds.
15 seconds. I still don't like it. Either way. I don't like it either way, to be honest.
It's still just one button. Maybe a living bomb.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Okay.
Theory Crafting, just open ideas here.
This talent reads, Fire Blast has a 100% chance to crit if an enemy is already burning
with ignite.
So if you get a crit, you Fire Blast to get a second crit.
You've saved your Fire Blast for when you get a crit.
When you have something burning, it's a guaranteed crit.
It's kind of like brand or something.
Thinking out loud here, just thinking out loud.
Yeah, right, nice one, I like it.
Bro, I typed that three times, sorry,
I'm not reading every line of chat.
Seems kind of strong.
So kind of like a shatter, kinda.
I kinda,
there's, I don't think that's ever been in the game before.
Fire Blast has a 100% chance to crit on retail always,
not when it's burning.
I don't think it's been in the game
where when you're burning, you get a crit.
I don't think that's ever been in the game.
Hmm seems like we're making fire way too good. Oh gosh, how do I?
We're designing the rotation not the viability things can be tuned. We're designing the rotation
That makes sense
Truly
Truly needing that I don't know I need to say that guys. This is not the viability at all
This is the rotation we want the rotation and I'll be one button. We want to be a couple
Okay, rework hot streak to work after casting different spells and short winners of time.
I don't know, I could sit here for hours and think.
I think this is the best thing for a rotation that I could think of.
For a rotation, not the viability, the numbers can be tweaked.
All consecutive non-crits give you a higher chance to crit.
So if you just keep not critting, eventually you'll get a crit.
Once you get a crit, you get ignite up.
This wake of fire talent gives you a 100% chance to crit with fire blast when something
is burning with ignite.
So you'll fire ball until you and that will be get a crit.
Then you'll fire blast, which would then proc pyro.
This should, instead of three stacks, it should be two.
You can still make it not instant if you want.
So the rotation is fireball, fireball, fireball, fireball,
fireblast, pyro, fireball, fireball, fireball.
Like at least that's three buttons instead of one.
And on a longer fight, of course, you use scorch.
So it'd be scorch, scorch, scorch, fireball, fireball,
fireball, fireball, fireblast, pyro, fireball, fireball,
fireball, scorch, maybe, fireball, fireball, pyro,
or fireblast, pyro.
Like something like that would be one,
Instead of one button, at least you have a couple.
Maybe that would help.
I still don't love it.
I still don't love it.
But that's better than how it currently is, I think.
That's better than how it currently is.
You fix PvE but not PvP, correct.
So that would suck in PvP.
Here's another question.
Does every spec need to be viable in PvP?
Or can you just say if you want a PvP, play a different build?
No, I agree with you guys, like I don't know if fire needs to be a PvP build period.
You could play Frost, you could play Frost Fire, you could play Fire Arcane, you could
play Fire Frost, maybe it just doesn't need to solve the PvP equation at all.
But fire should at least have a somewhat interesting rotation in the end game and a somewhat interesting
rotation while leveling.
already does. Frost already does. Fire doesn't. I'll think about it more. I don't know if
I want to just sit here forever thinking about it, but if you guys have any ideas, you could
write it in my discord, maybe something.
But as of right now, it's not in a good spot.
Frost has no rotation in the end game.
So Frost has two buttons in the end game.
Frostbolt, Frostbolt, Frostbolt, Frostbolt,
Well, oh, I crit.
Ice lands, ice lands.
Frost bolt, frost bolt, frost bolt, frost bolt.
Oh, I crit.
Ice lands, ice lands.
Unless you can double dip ice lands,
which you might be able to, I don't know how it's gonna work.
There are fingers of frost.
If fingers of frost is double dippable,
you could, what you could then do is
frost bolt, frost bolt, frost bolt, frost bolt.
Oh, I crit.
Ice lands, frost bolt, ice lands.
Which is probably the case.
That's probably what the rotation would be.
It's pretty basic.
It's pretty basic.
When I played Paladin, there was like so many buttons to press.
I only played Prott, but it's holy.
You have like holy shock, flash of light, and holy light.
So let's look at Paladin for a second.
There's a talent.
It's really cool, this one.
Your holy shock and flash of light crits,
or it is the cast time of your next holy light.
This is what I'm talking about.
when it comes to class design.
Right here, you have an ability that incentivizes you
to use other abilities.
It's like, okay, say Flash of Light's your best button.
So use it until you get an Infusion of Light proc,
then use Holy Light.
So you're using Flash of Light, Holy Shock,
and Holy Light as a Paladin.
In addition, the light's virtual.
That's four buttons.
Mage is using like one or two.
I like, like holy design is cool.
Prots, I was playing Prot.
You have Templars, Bulwark.
You have Holy Shield, right?
You have Holy Strike, right?
Judgment, Swift Judgment.
Once again, four or five buttons.
Paladin design, awesome, right?
So now we go back to Mage.
How do we make Mage, not just Frostbolt, Frostbolt,
frostbilt, frostbilt, frostbilt, frostbilt,
ice lands, and instead, you have more abilities
interacting with each other.
So it's, you know, two, three, four buttons
you're using in sequence.
We're just talking rotation here, just rotation.
Maybe fire does need living bomb.
Maybe that's what it is.
You have to keep up living bomb.
You have to keep up scorch.
Then you're using fireball.
And then the crit thing we talked about
with fire blast and the pyros or something.
Frost and orb, maybe frost needs frost and orb.
Like, it's probably something, right?
But it's tough.
Another good example of what we're talking about,
this talent right here.
Your backstab has a 3% chance to cause your next ambush
to not require self.
This is the type of talent that mages need.
Without this talent, it's backstab, backstab, backstab,
backstab, you know?
With this talent, it's backstab.
Ooh, I got an ambush proc.
Let me do backstab, ambush into another backstab.
Variability, not one button, now we're doing two.
Improvement, right?
Mage, think you need something like that for fire.
Brain freeze maybe?
Yeah, brain freeze might just,
I mean, that's a very simple basic solution,
but brain freeze, yeah, could probably be something.
Hot streak is literally that the problem with hot streak guys is you need three crits to
get a 1.5 second pyro three crits while leveling in a dungeon will like I will like never happen
when you're level like 10 through like level like 50,
like you'll never actually get all three
before it falls off.
Right now the talent doesn't work.
Right?
Three is too much, maybe two.
That's what I'm saying.
Like maybe two, but like three,
it like doesn't actually work.
Need to rework.
Fingers of Frost is one spell, not two.
Let me double check.
Fingers of Frost is only one spell.
Unless that's a typo.
Your rotation will be Frostbolt, Frostbolt, Frostbolt, Frostbolt, Frostbolt, Frostbolt.
Ooh, I got a fingers of frost, frostbilled ice lance.
Frostbilled frostbilled frostbilled frostbilled frostbilled frostbilled frostbilled frostbilled.
Ooh, I got a fingers of frost, frostbilled ice lance.
I mean, that is very, a very basic rotation.
Ah, man, class design is hard. Good thing I'm not, good thing I'm not designing mage.
Oh my gosh, it's a tough one.
I like it.
It's 2-1, wowhead. Okay, so that might be a bug then. That might be a bug.
Maybe it's supposed to stay two, I don't know.
Get missile brush and fingers of frost,
and then you can spam both.
Yeah, so I think like, that's a fair point.
You bring up like frost can have an interesting rotation.
if you play frost arcane, right?
Fire can have an interesting rotation
if you play fire arcane, right?
Frost can have an interesting rotation
if you play frost fire.
So a lot of these hybrid specs
actually do have interesting rotations,
but if you just play frost or if you just play fire
or if you just play arcane, they're kind of two buttons.
Arcane right now is two buttons, frost is two buttons,
and fire, fire is technically actually three,
but you don't press those three very often.
It's mainly one, one most of the time.
That sounds fine.
So I guess a question then could be,
what's the ideal amount of buttons you want
in your rotation in classic forever?
That's a good question.
Cause like if you ask me, I think I like like,
like one is too little, two I think is even too little.
I think like three to five is a really nice spot.
Like three would be like the low end,
five would be a much higher end.
Like I said with Paladin, you have, you know, at least four.
Like that feels good.
Mage having two, I think it's just,
can we all agree two is too little?
Can we all agree two is too little?
Like I think two is, yeah, so if we agree two is,
two buttons is too little,
and three should be more of the minimum,
then Frost does need a third button, right?
Five is too much, hot take.
So four, like three or four would maybe be a sweet spot
for a lot of people.
But one or two is too little.
I think three or four would be like really fun.
So in season of discovery,
a lot of classes were closer to that five range.
Let me think from age.
And Season of Discovery use Fire Blast, Living Bomb,
Frost Firebolt, Bale Firebolt, and Pyro, so five, you had five.
Season of Discovery use five, for Mage.
And that's not counting like Icy Veins, Cold Snap,
like Utility, Blink, all of that.
That's just counting like damaging rotational abilities.
So, if we all agree, season of discovery was maybe a bit on the high end, and that was,
I mean, the class that I played was five.
Yeah, maybe we aim for that three to four.
If that's the case, Arcane actually does need some work, and Frost does need some work as
well, which would mean all the Mage Specs need some work.
Oh, gosh.
The sad thing is, I don't know how to do it.
I actually don't know.
But I will say though, it's a lot of the hybrid specs look really fun.
A lot of the hybrid ones look really cool.
Every class except Paladin, you mean XD.
Okay.
So yeah, I haven't looked at a lot of these classes.
So Warrior is actually, since I've played a lot of Warrior, is actually in the spot
where it already has three or four buttons, right?
Whirlwind, Bloodthirst, Execute, Mortal Strike, you have four buns.
Oh, and Thunder, but I'm not pressing that, so let's say four.
Warrior, I think, is in the perfect spot.
You start the fight, you Thunder Armor, maybe Bloodthirst, Whirlwind.
If you're on Horde, maybe you spam Hamstring, but let's not even talk about that.
and like, you know, when the fight's fitting close to an end,
you can spam execute.
But besides that, if you have extra rates,
you heroic strike.
Warrior has the perfect number.
Like, can we agree that warrior has like a really,
I don't wanna, maybe I don't use the word perfect,
but like a really good rotation for classic.
It's, there's a lot to think about and do,
but it's not like crazy, like overwhelming retail complicated.
So warrior is in a good spot with the rotation.
Pally, I think, is in a good spot with the rotation.
Someone said none of the other ones are though.
Is that true?
I actually don't have the knowledge base
to chat about Hunter.
Let's chat about Rogue for a second.
Chat about Rogue for a second.
So Rogues are gonna have mutilate.
Rogues are gonna have a subspec,
presumably with backstab, ambush, and finishers.
So let's talk about sub, since I have played sub.
The rotation would be you'd go daggers,
you would backstab a lot,
You would use combo points on probably Slice or something.
You'd Hemo because you want the Hemoprox from, let me double check what talent gives you
the Hemoprox.
Cost of the target take 50% increase or rupture damage from the Rogue.
I thought there was a Hemoproc.
Did I misread that?
Let me quickly see what I was thinking about.
Maybe I was just thinking that HEMO buffs rupture.
Ruptures your spender.
Okay, so if for sub the rotation is I'm not open with an ambush, I'm going to spend on
rupture but keep up HEMO so that a buff rupture and ambush proc.
So you're going to use backstabs, you're going to use ambushes, you're going to use HEMOs
and you're going to use ruptures.
That's four.
That's four.
If you use Slice, that's going to be five.
I don't know if you use Slice.
That's five.
So Rogue, Sub-Rogue, we haven't looked at Combat or Assas, is a five-button spec, four
or five.
We already talked about how that's on the high end of like, okay, right?
100% you keep up Slice.
Okay, so Warrior, it's in a good rotational spot.
Pally's in a great rotational spot.
is in a pretty good rotational spot for sub.
Let's think about combat just for a sec.
Combat you have to keep up slice.
You're gonna use sinister on cooldown
and you're gonna spend with presumably a vis
after slice a nice uptime.
That's three.
Slice, a vis, sinister.
Is there a fourth?
Blade flurry is a cooldown,
adrenaline rush is a cooldown,
so let's not count those.
Like I'm talking rotational.
Exposed as well.
That's still another, that's like another spender though, you know, slice, evis, expose.
Okay, so like, on, if you're playing combat, you're using sinister, slice, evis, and expose.
That's four buttons, but, you know, three of them are interchangeable.
So little, combat's a little on the boring end, but that's something, you know.
Let's look at a sass just real quick.
of mutilate. You'll keep up slice. So too, is it just mutilate and slice? What's the
secondary spender here? Oh, venom. Venom is your spender. Okay, so mutilate, keep up
slice I would assume into Venoms. That's three. Little more on the boring end still though,
but that's still three. Okay, so I feel like Rogue is in an okay-ish spot. Sub is actually
going to be the most variable spec in the sense that you have to keep up Himo, Rupture,
Slice, Pac-7, Ambush. Like, that's actually- Sub will actually be the most interesting
expect to play in terms of rotation.
Priest.
I mean, disc is going to have penance, renew, shield.
Of course, you'll have flash, greater, lesser.
I mean, yeah, disc and holy.
Holy as prayer, amending, renew, binding.
So holy and disc instantly pass the check, right?
Is there enough complexity?
Yes for disc, yes for holy.
Do we all agree there?
Like, there's going to be a lot to press, like on the upper end,
Honestly, Shadow.
Let's think about Shadow.
Shadow, you're gonna have Shadow or Pain.
You have Shadow or Death when they get low.
You have Mind Blast, he's on cooldown,
and Mind Flay as a filler.
That's four.
You also have the Vowering Plague,
that's a longer cooldown though.
So Shadow is gonna have like five.
You can even use Vampiric and Brace,
Well, that's not a damage, you know, it's more utility.
So let's call it five for shadow.
So, so Priest is in a great spot.
So the guy that critiqued about five minutes ago
and said, every class is in a bad spot besides Paladin.
So far, you're wrong, right?
Like warriors in a good rotational spot,
Pali's in a good one, Rogue is in a good one, and Priest.
I'm not talking viability, just rotation,
that you at least have a few buttons to press.
So, so far, Mage is the sore thumb here.
Mage is really like one or two buttons a lot.
So let's keep looking.
I'm gonna need your guys's help on Hunter and Shaman,
Locke and Truid,
because I haven't played a lot of these.
I'm gonna need your help here, Chap.
And Truid, yeah.
Let's start with Truid,
because at least I've played a little bit of Truid.
Okay, so the reduces of the cast time are Wrath.
There's Moonfire, Wrath, Starfire.
This, this is the type of button
I think mages could benefit from, right?
Each time you cast a nature spell,
your next arcane damage spell has increased damage.
This is a type of ability that incentivizes
different buttons to be pressed.
It's the same ability design as Infusion of Light.
It's the same ability design as Cutthroat.
right? It's the same ability design as, as a lot, uh, I suppose as something like fingers of frost
or hot streak, right? Or missile brush in a sense, kind of.
So you're going to use moonfire to keep up the dot, presumably. You'll use wrath,
but once you wrath enough, you'll start fires. That's three buttons.
I assume you would also press insects warm. That's four
So four you'll do like moon you'll pull with like a star fire and the moon fire and then insects warm and
Then keep star firing until you get rats and a wrath until you start fire. So that's four. That's four
And your room
One of the things
About moon kin. Oh, no, I was thinking about shadow form
So let me go to priest real quick one of the things cool about shadow form is it reduces the mana cost of all shadow spells by 50%
So shadow priests won't go many more because of that or at least a lot less
Crazy crazy insane moonkins. I thought might have had something similar
Hopefully moonkins don't just go. Oh, that would suck
Farrell. I actually haven't looked at Farrell. So as far as I know, Farrell's helmet is going
to get nerfed. Top left. Ruins system mana cost by 50% or half. Huge. Read Eclipse on
the top right. Your wrath spells reduce the cast time of your next starfire by 0.5. Stores
up to 4 charges last 15 seconds. Once again, another ability that incentivizes more buttons
to be pressed. Eclipse, balance of nature, like make the spec more than one button. It's
It's about four, right?
It's about four.
Okay, let's think about Farrell for a second.
Mangle.
Mangle's only bear form it looks like.
So let's talk about like just DPS.
Cause your Mangle.
Just strike up to three targets, which is cool.
Wait, is Mangle only?
Is Berserk only gonna be bear form?
Ooh, are you gonna go to bear in Berserk
and when you're DPSing?
I'm trying to think about this.
Causes your mingle ability to strike up
to three times who's going.
It, oh, is it cat two?
It says requires bear form or dire bear form
unless there's something else.
You can use Berserk in cat form. Yeah, or acquire his cat form, but it says it
causes your Mangle to strike up the three and Mangle's only as well in bear or
dire bear unless that's a typo.
Hmm, you'll probably just use Berserk and keep shredding, right? You'll probably
just use Berserk and keep shredding. It increases crit to 100% in cat. Yeah,
Yeah, but I'm talking about Mangle, guys.
Row read.
Guys, we're talking about rotations here.
We're trying to understand a Berserk.
If we're gonna use Mangle as an ability,
we're talking about if we're counting Mangle
as a button to press, guys.
That's what we're talking about, okay?
Guys, guys, guys, read this if it doesn't.
Chat has seven second intention span?
Yeah, maybe, something like that.
Okay, so you're going to use presumably no mangle in the DPS rotation, I think.
You can probably use rip, probably use shred, probably use rake.
Rip is an opener though, right?
There's Tiger's Fury as well, and that grants you energy, so it's going to be Tiger's Fury,
and a rake if we're not counting the opener.
Oh, Anna Spender and a ferocious bite.
So four.
I don't know.
I think four is a really nice sweet spot, you know?
OK.
That looks like, like I'm organized.
We're going to every single class right now
and trying to figure out what the rotation would
look like. And so far, all the ones we've covered are in that like three to five range, right? Three
to five button range. Rest assured, I would assume this would have a lot because you have swift mend,
wild growth, regrowth, rejuve, and a healing touch. I mean, healers just have more buttons
to press. Every healer we've looked at has so many buttons. At least five.
There's no life bloom, right? Someone said life bloom. So that's fine. Yeah, that's good. That's
fine. Okay, let's look at lock. Actually, let's do lock before hunter because I'm more familiar with lock.
Yo, Streetpaw, thanks for the super chat.
Finally catching you live.
Thank you, man.
Smooth brain to the super chat.
After watching the deep dive, it seems to me forever raiding will be much more about
utility versus parsing.
That's awesome.
Jindale, thanks for the 5.
You missed that freeze.
Can have holy damage spec.
A holy damage spec.
Now check disc and holy talents.
Yeah, that's cool.
Super cool.
Sketch, thanks for the prime.
Appreciate you, man.
Thanks for the T1.
OK, DESTRO.
So right now, the DESTRO rotation,
or the LOCK rotation in general, is one button.
You press Shadow Bolt.
I guess technically you put up Curse of Elements
and then Shadow Bolt.
Let's see what they've done.
Um, you have a shout out burn aftermath, cataclysm.
Increase the crit chance of searing pain and the damage on our destruction ignites a target
is already inflicted by your emulate dealing more damage by the emulate, okay.
Constance the crit.
Dude, I hope there's a fire, Destro build that's sick.
Okay, Bane of Havoc, got it.
Deals 125 to 140 fire damage to your target
and an additional 25% damage if the target's afflicted
by MLA.
Okay, so if the fire build works,
what you would do is like keep up,
You would like Imelay, Ensign, Can Flag,
and then fill with,
wait, is Ensign in a cooldown?
I would assume there's a cooldown on Ensign, right?
Bre-read, Shadow and Flame.
Hitting an enemy with Can Flag
increases all shadow damage you deal by 10 for 20 seconds
and hitting an enemy with Shadowburn,
increase all fire damage you deal.
This is the kind of stuff we're looking for, man.
This is what builds our rotation, right?
Yes, okay.
In addition, can flag has a 100% chance
to not consume Immolate,
and Shadowburn has a 100% chance
to instantly refund a Soul Shard.
Oh, so this builds the whole spec.
So this is the type of talent Mage needs.
They need something like this,
because right now they don't have that.
Man, I feel like I'm not smart enough to like build it.
Like I want, I want to, like, okay,
maybe I just haven't thought about it long enough.
I want Mage to have something to make it
to where the rotation is interesting,
like every other spec in the game is so far,
besides Mage, but we're not done with all of them.
So maybe there's another weak link here.
Wow, that's interesting.
I don't even know if I'm good enough at Warlock
to think about how this rotation would play out.
But it sounds like it's similar to like a moonken.
To where you would emulate and can flag,
then swap to using shadow for a while
until you shadow burn and then move back
to emulate and can flags.
You're either playing off emulate and can flag
or shadow bolt and shadow burn.
That's so cool, that's so cool.
Oh my gosh.
Like I said, I haven't played much lock,
like at least in the end game setting,
to like know enough, but like that is so cool.
Okay, like demonology, I haven't looked at this too much.
Okay.
Okay, okay.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Whoa. So you can sack a pet and get the benefit from MD on something and then bring out another
pet. Your steering pain generates less threat and your pet's next two attacks against the
target, generate high threat, and deal 39 to 42 fire shot damage based on the pet.
So you use searing pain to generate a debuff.
So it'll be like searing pain, and then something else, and then something else, and then researing
pain.
So you want to keep searing pain so your pet pumps, unless there's a longer cooldown.
Interesting.
Reaches the cooldown of Soulfire by 45 when your cast Shadowbolt or Shearing Pain on an enemy below 35, they deal
3% increased damage for the next 10 seconds or Soulfires will have its cast time reduced by 20 and cause no Soul Shards
So they want Soulfire in your rotation
presumably Shearing Pain in your rotation
And I would assume you would go improve Shadowbolt anyway. So you do like Shadowbolt
Soulfire
Shearing Pain and then maybe even a daughter to in a curse
Okay, so we can all agree Warlock is probably on the higher end as well for Destro and for
Demonology.
That's a lot.
Well, I would even maybe say too, like maybe even too much, but let's just, maybe it's
fine.
Affliction is wild, isn't it?
Let's see.
Oh yeah, I remember reading this.
So you have something called Drain Hope.
Dude, Affliction looks so fun.
all hope dealing damage every one second and increases all other shadow damage over timed
dots.
So they want a fliction playable and end game presumably and you're going to like drain
with this new talent called drain hope which is kind of like Malefic Grasp or like Drain
Soul except it's just a brand new ability is a channel which is going to like bump up
all your dots.
Siphon life is worth pressing. Agony, siphon life, corruption, drain life, and then you
feel like shadowball, I would assume. So that's like five. Okay. I don't want to go too deep
into every class, especially the ones that I'm less comfortable with, because it's just
me yapping for no reason. But so far, if you're just tuning in, warrior has a complex enough
rotation, Pali does, Rogue does, Priest does, Locke does, and Druid does.
Let's take a look at Shaman and Hunter. Those are the last two.
I'm gonna need your help here guys because I haven't played any Shaman. Shaman is my least played class,
so I'm gonna need a lot of help here.
Check discord, fire has a 4-button rotation. Let me see if I can...
Crap, hold on.
Oh, right, yeah, yeah, no, exactly, Gabby, yeah.
I'm talking about like also while leveling, I'm talking about like while just interacting
with the world, a quest, I'm not always just talking about like, like, okay, so we'll get
to that in a second.
that Gabby, maybe you already, maybe you just tuned in. So with fire, technically there are buttons
to press, but effectively you never press them, especially while leveling. Effectively you'll
never actually get a hot streak and a dungeon while leveling. That's the problem, but we covered
that. But let's, let's get back to Shaman. Okay, let's start with Ellie because this is the first
First one on the left.
Okay, so I mean, you have lava burst, which is sick.
You have lighting overload, which I think is really sick.
Really sick.
Um, reduces the cool down of your shock spells is the damage done.
So, so Ellie, am I missing something here?
Is it is it just going to be lightning pole filled with flame shock and lava burst?
Is that is that I mean, so that's pretty on the light end.
That's pretty on the light end.
Yes.
I mean, that's the lightest spec besides mage
that we've seen.
Chain lightning as well.
Mm, I forgot about chain lightning.
Chain lightning in classic is a cool-down, right?
So you use like chain lightning for the cool-down,
flame shock, lava burst, I would assume as a cool-down,
and then fill with lightning bolts.
And so another chain lightning,
flame shock or lava burst and lightning bolt.
And you guys are saying fire nova too.
But are you gonna use fire nova single target?
I would assume not.
Maybe.
No, no, yes, no.
I mean, maybe.
Maybe it's a single target.
It depends on how much damage it does for the mana cost and for the global.
I guess we don't know.
We'll see.
Anyway, Ellie is a little on the lighter end.
Shane lightning, lightning bolt, lava burst and flame shock.
Once again, while you're leveling, you're doing a quest, you're not just gonna go lightning
lightning bolt, lightning bolt, lightning bolt, lightning bolt.
You might do like lightning bolt, flame shock,
lava burst, lightning bolt, right?
Like you have a couple different 1, 2, 3s to press.
It's not just one, right?
Read fire nova change below.
A spell now, not a totem, got it.
10 second cooldown, lost everything.
Yeah, got it.
Yeah, it really just depends.
How much damage it does for the global
if you're gonna use it or not, single target.
Okay, let's let's chat in hands for a second, and I'm so happy we're actually taking the
time to do this because when I was on the stage there, we did not have enough time to
read all these.
Okay, so you're going to have storm strike.
Strike is a 12 second cooldown. Storm Strike can reset on Dodgers or Parries. It's a it
It says 12 here, but maybe it's wrong.
It seems a little on the lighter end.
All right, so in-hands, I'm going to need your help here.
Are you really just storm-striking and using a shock,
and then storm-striking and using a shock,
and then storm-striking and reading a shock?
Yeah, I mean, is that really it?
OK, so oh, it's the lightning bolts,
Because that would be cool, let's see.
When you deal damage with a melee attack,
you have a chance to reduce the cast time in mana cost
of your next lightning bullet by four,
stacks up to five times.
So you're gonna get a...
Here, let's just fill this out to see how it stacks up.
So it's gonna be a 20% quicker lightning pull.
Is that even worth casting?
20 at five?
Huh?
Wait, is that even worth casting?
You know it's a hundred?
Oh, okay, I'm seeing, I see.
It's 20, but it stacks up to five,
so it's gonna be an instant.
Okay.
I wonder what the chance is.
It just says you have a chance.
What's a chance?
Is it 1%, 5%?
Weird.
You have a chance to reduce the cast time.
Okay, so storm strike, storm strike,
or storm strike, shock,
whatever shock you're gonna use,
storm strike, shock,
and then eventually you get an instant lightning bolt.
Okay, can we all agree, Inhanced might be a little on the lighter end in terms of rotation and then Fire Nova totem.
Oh wait, so Fire Nova is just going to be a spell anyway.
So you'll probably weave in firenovas, maybe.
Totem twisting as well.
I'm kind of, I've never played a shaman, I might be missing this, but it seems very
light.
Storm Shrike, a shock.
Every now and then you'll press a lightning bolt.
It is simple, it's mid, simple.
Light but fun.
That's, I mean, that's three buttons.
Okay, I mean, it seems a little on the lighter end,
especially compared to every other thing we've seen so far,
but maybe it's fine.
Maybe three is, maybe three is fine.
Like we said, it doesn't have to,
it's not like every class has to have the same amount
of buttons to press.
It can be, it can range.
Some can have three, some can have five.
That's fine.
This one seems to be in the lighter end,
which is probably fine.
Rester, Shaman, say I've ripped tight now.
You have Lesser and Corater.
Do they have Chainheal?
Or it's that TBC
They also have Shane say of Shane lesser crater riptide that feels like all the healers have way like way more buttons to press through the DPS
Holy crap
Shane riptide lesser crater
Okay
Whatever it feels like healers all past this instantly just because they healers is a more bunse press maybe healing is just way harder than deeps
Okay, true it so what what have we missed hunter hunters like the one that we haven't guys. I'm gonna need help here, too
I haven't played too much honor
We'll do BM first
Ooh, Hunter seems, what, what do you actually press, Summon Hawk, Command Hawk to Dive?
Okay, so you have Summon Hawk, that's one.
Obviously like pet attack and auto attack.
Um, what, what do you, what do you actually press in here?
You have a Sting.
You have a Sting, you have Arcane Shot, you have Summon Hawk and then your pet is attacking.
I mean, BM seemed like if you're going to use Summon Hawk,
Sting, and Arcane Shot, is that three?
You'll also multi.
I don't think you're going to aimed, right?
Okay.
You, oh, you can't Arcane because it replaces it.
Let's see.
Oh, you're right.
Summon Hawk shares its cooldown with Arcane Shot.
Okay, so you'll use a Sting, Summon Hawk,
presumably if it's tuned correctly.
Multi.
And
that's three.
Oh, aimed his baseline shared CD.
It's a quicker two second cast,
six second cooldown shared with multi shot.
Classic was three.
The reader caught this cast time on Zaru stream.
Spotted by a reader on Zaryu's stream.
Guys, I knew that because it was on my stream.
I read everything when I was there in person.
That's why I was going to tell you guys, aim shot is across the board,
and it does share with multi-shot.
OK, so aim shot, aim shot, summon hawk and a sting, that's still three.
Still kind of three
Okay
Kill command did I miss kill command?
Maybe kill command just like a hunter talent here
Doesn't look like there's kill command unless I'm tripping which I might be totally might be
No kill command. No kill command. Okay. Okay. So Beast Mastery might be a little on the
lighter end, but I feel like that's kind of how Beast Mastery usually looks. Okay.
your pet into a rage. You have B.C. O'Rath. That's like a cool gun.
The M is going to be S tier with pets disarming.
Aiming his baseline cool.
All right.
Mark's man you have aimed shot baseline.
Sniper shot.
Four second cast. Holy crap. So, so now Mark sounds like a new
aim shot called sniper shot because everyone has aim shot
Now sniper shot is going to be even sicker.
OK, so you have sniper shot and aim shot and lone wolf.
Bro, Marx is going to be so cool.
Oh my gosh.
Are you going to bring for Nomargon back in forever?
And we're not going to do for Nomargon,
but we will have a guild.
Yeah.
OK, so sniper shot, aim shot, arcane shot, and a sting.
So four, okay, and then survival is going to be the weirdest one to think about because
it's a melee spec, strider kick, like no one's actually played this. It's a powerful kick that
deals damage, it has an eight second cooldown, you have counter attack, you have
traps. You'll probably use traps like on cooldown as a spec. You can use them in combat, I think, as well.
Yeah, so traps. Mongoosebite is raptor strike still a thing, I would assume. Mongoosebite, raptor strike,
like Strider Kick and Traps.
For counting all Traps is one, it's four,
and that's not even counting Counter Attack.
Okay, so service like in a great spot.
Okay.
Okay, so we've covered every class in the game.
Now let's go back to Mage and think about Frost.
Frost has Frostbolt and Ice Lance.
That is two.
There is no other spec in the game with only two buttons.
So now after that knowledge,
We do need at least minimum a third button
to press for Frost, minimum.
One more, don't forget KonaCold.
You don't use KonaCold in PvE, single target.
Like, I'm not talking AoE grinding.
I'm talking like, you know, in a rotation.
How does a rotation feel, right?
You're not gonna use Arcane Explosion, Frost Nova,
none of that.
Frost while leveling is already fine.
I'm just talking about like, when we're on a fight.
What what third spec what should we use?
Without making a hybrid build of course you can make hybrid builds but you can make a
hybrid build with warlock you can make a hybrid build with rope you can make a hybrid build
with any of these.
Mage has cool hybrid builds, I'll give it that.
So maybe Mage, you just can't play Frost, you have to play a hybrid, and maybe that's
okay.
Maybe that's okay.
But right now, Frost is a build and PvE has two buttons.
I don't know if that's okay.
I don't know.
I think it would probably need minimum a third, but realistically, probably a fourth, because
that's what most, you know, hmm.
I'm thinking. Fire blast. You don't use fire blast in PvE as frost. It's not enough damage
for the global cooldown. Orb. Orb could work. You probably want at least one more
and maybe two is Frost, but I don't know.
Flurry, Ebenbull, I don't want it to just stray from retail.
Let's put Frost on the bench for now,
and talk about Arcane.
Cause after looking at every other spec in the game,
I do think Frost needs more than two buttons in a rotation.
I think it would.
Something like Glacial Spike would work.
I don't want to just take from retail, like, whatever.
Okay, let's look at Arcane for a second.
Arcane has stacking Arcane blasts,
and Missile Barrage is a spender for missiles.
Sick, I actually like it.
What else are you pressing as Arcane
besides blast and missiles?
Nothing.
So two buttons again for two of the Mage Specs.
We just covered every spec in the game.
They all have three to five.
No other spec in the game has only two,
besides Arcane and Frost.
Okay.
I don't know the answer to this yet,
but it gives us some perspective.
Fire.
So as Gabby pointed out,
the fire rotation on an end game boss
We'll be using Scorch to put up Scorch stocks, you will be using Fireball as your main generator,
you will be using Fireblast on cooldown presumably because it's, you know, going to give you
a knight worth using as Fire, Crit, Chance is higher, and HotStrike will give you Pyro.
So Fire has four, four buttons you'll actually press in a rotation at Endgame.
So leveling, that's a whole different story, but endgame 4 on fire.
So in that sense, the conversation shifts to how does Arcane and Frost work as a spec
in the endgame?
And maybe for now you could just say, well, don't play Frost, and maybe that's an acceptable
answer, but let's think about Arcane.
Arcane I don't think is an acceptable answer to say, well, just don't play Arcane, it's
Arcane.
Two buttons currently, how do you add a third?
You currently never plus Fire Blast as is.
Really, and PDU never use Fire Blast?
Well, hopefully it's good enough.
Read Arcane Blast again.
Okay, blast the target to link damage.
Each time you cast Arcane Blast,
the damage of all your other Arcane spells
increased by 10, and the mana cost of Arcane Blast
increased by 175,
affect stacks up to four times and lasts eight seconds,
or until any other spells cast.
That's about what we thought it did, cool.
All other spells, yeah, that's about what we thought it did.
Oh, oh, oh!
I read it as all other arcane spells, not all other spells.
Oh!
So they want you to use arcane blast in every mage build.
Ooh, I don't know if I even like that.
Hmm, let me think about this now.
Okay, I actually did read it as all other arcane.
So like a, uh, ooh, okay,
so this does change my opinion a little bit.
I did read that one wrong.
I'm just brainstorming on the spot here.
You could then do like an Arcane Frost build, which once again is a hybrid build, but you
could do something like this. You don't need ice barrier to raid. I mean, this, this bill
would be really good. I mean, really, really good, right? Like this, this would be like
really good. Frostbolt gives you missiles. Arcane Blast gives you extra damage on all
your other spells. It could be like Arcane Blast, Arcane Blast, Arcane Blast, Arcane
Arcane Blast, Missle, ah, but when do you even, hmm.
Yeah, I don't know how this would actually work
as a route, I wonder if Arcane Blast,
oh yeah, I don't know how that would work on a rotation.
Maybe you wouldn't play Arcane Blast
and you would just go Frostbolt, Frostbolt, Frostbolt,
Missles, and say you got a proc,
and then fingers to Frost, Frostbolt, Ice Lance,
Frostbolt, Frostbolt, Missles.
So at least this is three buttons.
Frostbolt, Ice Lance, and Missiles, that's three.
But here's the thing,
is it acceptable to have a two button spec
that only gets its third when you go halfway into Arcane?
Is that acceptable?
That's a question, I don't know.
Like every other spec we've looked at
has five, like three to five alone in their tree,
alone without double dipping, right?
Rogue, Hunter, Pally, Warrior, Preach, Shaman,
Locked through everything except Mage has three to five alone without double dipping.
Oh, you guys seem to think it's fine though.
Maybe it's fine.
It's three, it's two normally and three with double dipping an acceptable rotation for Frost.
Assuming the Frost build would look something like this.
Frostbilt, Frostbilt, Missiles,
Frostbolt, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Frostbolt, Frostbolt, Frostbolt, Frostbolt, Frostbolt,
Ice Lance, Frostbolt, Missiles, Frostbolt, Missiles, Frostbolt, Frost, I don't know.
It's a little on the light end to say the least.
I still agree that Mages need another looking into.
I would say Mages might be the top priority spec to look into in terms of rotational design
right now though.
When you compare it to every other one, I think mage is,
I just don't know what to do about it.
I wish I had answers.
Yeah, it's a tough conversation to have
because everyone will instantly say mage bias,
but once again, I'll keep repeating.
We're not talking about viability,
we're not talking about DPS,
and we're not talking about strength.
The conversation is just rotation complexity.
What buttons, how many buttons are you pressing,
which buttons is it interesting to play?
That is the conversation we're having.
Not how much damage.
Just, is it fun to press the buttons in this order?
So far, Frost, Arcane seem to be the lightest two
out of any spec in the game.
Okay, let's take another look.
So Frost kind of works if you go Missile Barrage.
Let's take a look at Arcane now.
Let's take a quick look at just like Arcane.
You wanna be an Arcane Mage, right?
You wanna fulfill that class fantasy.
I wanna, you know, do a lot of damage as Arcane.
So of course, you know, you'll get Arcane Power.
Of course, you're gonna get, you know, Missile Barrage.
It's gonna be Blast, Blast, Blast, Blast Barrage.
Blast, Blast, Blast, Blast Barrage.
Blast, Blast, Blast, Blast, Blast Barrage.
Okay, so how would we then give it a third ability?
Very, hold on.
But before we add a third ability, like make one up,
Is there something we can double dip in first?
Like, it wouldn't make any sense to play like Fireball.
I don't think Fireball should be worth using.
Pyro.
Don't think it would be worth using a Pyro in this build.
Let's just entertain the idea, though,
for a second and see maybe there's a way.
Say you wanna ignite with Pyro.
And it's something like this. Okay. Let's just think about this
Could you build a rotation around this? Yeah, these are crits from fireball frost fireball fire blast and scorch so arcane
Blast won't proc it missile barrage won't proc it. I
Don't think this works
No, you would just use arcane blast that's what I'm saying I wanted to think about it, but I don't think this would work as a spec
Frostfire Bolt, yeah, we'll have that Frostfire Bolt conversation in a sec, which not actually
does look like a sick build.
You have Palm though, so every three minutes you could Palm Pyro instead of Palm Arcane
Blast.
I don't even know if that'd be better.
stack Arcane Blast might do more than a Pyro. I actually don't even know. Okay, so let's
take that off the table. What if you went like Arcane Frost? Is there anything that
can double dip his Arcane Frost? I don't think so. Actually, you could do a Frost Firebolt
build. But then you wouldn't cast Arcane Blast. Pause this conversation. We'll go back to
it in just a sec. This build would be sick. You have five points here for shorter Frostfire
Bolt. You get rid of Arcane Blast because you don't even need it. You're not even going
to use Arcane Blast. Okay. You're going to spam Frostfire Bolt, Missile Barrage to give
you procs and it's quicker because of this and then Frostfirebolt is going to give you
crit here.
You can't get shatter with this.
Nah, okay, no that's not going to work.
So there is a Frostfirebolt build but you go Frost and fire, Frostfirebolt.
Um, yeah, that's fine.
Okay.
Going back to the conversation of arcane, how do you make arcane more
complex than two buttons?
That's the question on the table.
That's the question on the table.
You can't go anything in fire to give it a third.
You can't go anything in frost to give it a third.
So as of right now, arcane has two buttons to hit arcane blast and arcane
missiles.
Those are the only two you need.
You can't have two.
Do we all agree?
We can't have only two.
No other spec in the game as to
Arcane is the only one frost also is another but
Every other spec has three to five sometimes some six. I
Don't think I don't think you can have a speck with you
Is it just is it just arcane barrage, that's just the obvious boring answer though
Arcane barrage is just an obvious boring answer
Okay, let's bench arching barrage just for a second and try to think more creatively
because arching barrage is like, yeah, you could, but like
Hellfire, stop complicating classic.
So like what I'm doing is bringing, I'm trying to theorycraft and how we would bring Mage
in line with every other spec in the game.
So not to complicate it more than any other spec, but to bring it up to every other spec.
Obvious rage bait ban that guy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just for people tuning in though.
Um, there's a third button to press.
I hate to say it. Maybe it's just barrage.
Oh, gosh.
And if you just do barrage, though, it just feels like a copy pace from any other arcane spec ever.
I want something more interesting.
Wand, like a wand proc or something.
Talk to the mad shy, maybe, maybe.
But that already exists on retail.
Look at Turtle Wow Talons. What did they do on Turtle Wow?
That's actually a good idea.
That's actually a great idea. Is this Turtle Wow right here?
Crap.
It's actually not a bad idea.
Is this turtle well?
Is this Octo well?
Yes?
Okay, okay.
So they gave the arcane missiles a chance to reset the cooldown of arcane rupture and
cause it to return to its base.
It's arcane rupture.
Your successful damaging arcane spells have a chance to duplicate for 50% of the damage
effect and trigger off itself and duplicate arcane missiles that are found in tandem with
the original cast.
That's interesting, but it doesn't give you another button.
Arcane rupture.
Rupture, target, but the force of contrainted arcane energy dealing arcane damage, so it's
just arcane blast.
Well, kinda.
wait no not really kind of not really looks like the tooltip
so it's turtle wow arcane mage also two buttons is that what I'm seeing here oh
Oh my gosh, I think I'm losing my voice
Guys, I don't know if I'm smart enough
Maybe this is what the mage designer is running into. How do you design mage?
To have that third button Frost has to arcane as to
Can you clear cast a pyro clear cast is just mana cost though.
That's always what mage has been buddy.
Mage looks so boring to play compared to all the other classes well that's why we're having
this conversation.
It's easy to complain.
It's harder to come up with solutions to the things that you're complaining about.
I can sit here all day and say, oh, mages are boring to play.
That's why I'm trying to come up with what would I do?
And I don't know.
Dang it.
I don't know how to add a third button, man.
Ask chat GPT.
Okay, let's pause the conversation.
I don't know.
What I will say is this.
If I'm a mage, what spec do I want to play?
Right away the most interesting, fascinating build to me is this.
right there. You spam Frost Firebolt. You're benefiting from Ignite. Improved Scorch, Firepower,
Critical Mass, Master of Elements, and Piercing Ice, Ice Shards, Fingers of Frost, and Shatter.
As an MMO gamer, as an RPG gamer, it is so cool when you have one ability that gets benefited
from all these things and you're like, oh, like it feels sick, right? Then, if you get
Frostfirebolt proc'ing, you can spend on Ice Lance, if you get Crit you can spend on Pyro.
So you have Pyro, Ice Lance, Frostfirebolt, and I think Scorch.
So that's like four. I think this would be fun to play. I think this would be fun to play. I like
this build. I think it's sick. That's fine. Four is enough for me, bro. Like, that's good.
That's a fun spec. I would play that. I would play that. So problem solved. Kinda. Kinda
problem solved. When we look at something like Rogue, assassination is a viable build
with a few buttons. Combat's a viable build with a few buttons and sub. When you look at
respect like Hunter, Beast Mastery has a few buttons,
Marks and Survival.
When you look at Warrior, Arms Fury and Prott,
when you look at Truid, Balance, Feral and Restless,
all of them have three to five buttons to press.
Mage, the only way to get to that four button range
is by making a hybrid build.
So maybe the answer is,
mages have to play a hybrid build.
You either play hybrid arcane fire,
hybrid arcane frost, hybrid fire frost,
maybe that's just it.
Mages are a hybrid build in PV,
like you have to go frost arcane,
fire frost, or you could go deep arcane,
but then that's two buttons.
I miss hybrid spec-ing.
Yeah, I mean, maybe that's the answer.
Mages always kind of go hybrid.
Most DPS is gonna be deep arcane though.
Okay, so once again, if we return to Deep Arcane,
in your Blizzard, your John Blizzard, your name is John,
what do you do assuming, we all agree Deep Arcane
should be a spec, right?
Assuming you want to play Deep Arcane,
right now it's two buttons only, only two buttons,
Arcane Blast of Missiles, what is the third one
you would add if you're John Blizzard?
Nothing hybrid is going to fix this, right?
Going into fire doesn't fix this.
Going into frost doesn't fix it.
What do you add?
Orb, Barrage, Nether Tempest.
Nothing, it's fine.
I don't know.
I think I'll just call that one out and just say,
I guess I'll just say I respectfully disagree with you.
I don't think a two-button rotation is OK.
Like, when every other class has three to five,
I think two is unacceptable.
I think more thought needs to go into it.
Thank you.
Yeah, I just don't think that's acceptable.
I don't think that's like, oh, we did a good job.
That's no, there's room to be more creative here.
Two buttons is not an acceptable thing.
Yeah, the cop-out answer is Barrage.
People are saying Prismatic Bolt, so I actually haven't played Retail since they added this
new ability called Prismatic Bolt.
I don't like the idea of copying from Retail, but I want to see what this does because I
actually haven't played it. Arcane Brash is the one percentage percent... okay,
it's not equal. Devastates the target with overwhelming energy, dealing a bunch of
spell power and arcane damage to them, and arcane damage other nearby enemies
damage reduced beyond five targets. Oh, wait, didn't they just rename Arcane Pulse?
Wasn't this called Arcane Pulse?
Am I tripping?
No? Wait what? I thought totally.
Arcane Pulse erupts from underneath your target dealing spell power damage to all enemies in the 8 yards, damage is beyond 5.
This generates an Arcane Stack.
This generates forced charges.
This generates one shard is very similar. Am I trippin?
2.5 second cast 40 yard range 2 second cast
Very similar it's a big cast proc though
Oh because of the arcane barrage stuff arcane brush has a 1% chance per stack of
Arcane salvo consume to replace your next arcane blast
With prismatic bolt. Oh it auto replaces it with you
It just made it just replaces your button for you
That's actually funny, okay, so you keep spamming the same button though
You don't actually have to use a different key bind. That's hilarious. I don't know why I think it's so funny
That's funny.
Oh my gosh.
Something like whenever a stack of blast is removed, you have a chance to proc a fat
spell.
Rune of power.
I never liked Rune of Power.
Make Fire Blast useful.
100% crit chance to keep fast pyro buffs, scorch for T-Buff, fireball.
I think it's the main cool on a presence of mind.
It's not a bad idea.
What does Comprehense Skrull do?
Nothing, I think it's leftover from like sod or something.
Does he not read YouTube?
Yeah, I do with seven, what do I have J?
Arcane Crystal, I never liked Crystal.
Fire Blast for increased damage
and to reset Arcane Blast mana cost
and can also proc Ignite.
Are you saying as is see you're saying as is you want to do something like just use fire blast on cool down
Like some like some you're just saying like oh you could just do this
And like use arcane blast and fire blast on cool down just to like I don't know if that would even be worth the global
I'm gonna be honest. I don't know how that would be worth the global
I'm not sold that arcane is a two-button spec for anyone that's not sold that it's a two-button spec currently
I would love to hear what the third button is. Please. Please tell me
Yeah, I've seen it conjure water true
Whoo-hoo-hoo, true.
Make your food, Mage.
I'm gonna go to the restroom guys.
I've been live for five hours, haven't left once.
I'm gonna go to the restroom,
I'm gonna keep thinking about this.
Please guys, we need to fix Arcane.
Guys if we have a good enough idea,
maybe we'll even send it to Blizzard's direction to see,
but right now I'm not thinking of anything good
and all of your guys' suggestions,
we haven't thought of anything yet,
so we gotta think of something, we're back.
I think it's going to be a
Dang it after going to the bathroom. Maybe it is just arcane barrage. Maybe maybe made this just need that. Maybe it's just barrage
It's boring. I can't come up with anything better
Can any can anyone else arcane barrage? That's the only thing I can think of you guys actually have some suggestions and shallots read these
wand
Arcane integration of beam it can hit more targets. I don't like channeled stuff like beam is kind of one missile stacks increase
Wand, Missile, Stacks, Buff, increases 1 Wand, Auto Damage, so like Wand and
Irrotation, I don't know how fun that sounds, Arcane Roon, that doesn't sound
good, Arcane Shock, what would that be? Channeled Arcane Siphon, Teal Damage,
Trains, Energy, Elemental Exchange, buffs the next cast or spell from other
schools of magic by using a spell from a different school of magic. So the more
Or you cast Arcane Blast.
Ooh, that's interesting.
That's actually a good idea, maybe.
Cause you could buff up Arcane Blast to four stack
and then like Palma Pyro or something.
That might be cool.
Like something like that.
Like the more you cast Arcane,
it's gonna give you a benefit to do something else.
Like that's the kind of stuff we're looking for.
That idea already could, that could be kind of cool.
It already kind of does do that, yeah, but you wouldn't be incentivized to use it in
any like unique way right now.
What are you, what doesn't it already do that?
Yeah, but it needs to be like, like right now it's like, okay, each time you cast Arcane
And last you get 10% extra damage on all other spells, so 40%.
What spell do you want to use when you have four stacks of this?
Probably another Arcane Blast, or you spend with missiles to reset if you're going, um.
Palm Pyro, exactly.
Yeah, like Palm Pyro, but that's every three minutes.
You're not going to hard cast a pyro.
A palm pyro every three minutes could work.
Yeah, so I mean, I guess you could do this.
Right.
And every three minutes, you'll like you can pre-pull the pyro
and then every three minutes, palm pyro.
But like, you know.
Arcane Echo, here's how it would work. A quick 1.5 second cast spell that can only be used immediately after your Arcane Missile finishes channeling.
Okay, it deals damage equal to a portion of the total damage dealt by that channel. You clip a missile, it runs the spell.
So in a spell called Arcane Echo, and you can only use it while casting missiles, you
have to like missile and then like echo, huh, that's interesting, I don't know, it's creative,
I don't know if I like it, but it's very creative.
Man, being a class designer would be so hard.
It would be so hard, man.
Goodness gracious.
New skill arcane eruption per crit build charges on target, explode natural resistances for
negative to resist.
Hmm.
Isn't a 40% buffed fireball worth the lingering dot?
I don't think so.
Maybe I'm wrong, let me check.
The thought like a max range fireball
would leave a 76 damage dot.
So like I assume your question is like what if you just got like improved fireball and you go like arcane bus arcane bus arcane play
Blast arcane blast and then fireball I
Don't think that would be worth, but maybe I'm wrong
Doesn't seem like it would be worth
Why is mage so hard to design when they did a great job with all the other ones or at least
I don't want to say great with all of them but like they did a pretty good job with all
the other ones like how is mage so hard to get right like what the heck like they did
it so easily with paladin warrior rogue hunter priest shaman log druid why are we struggling
so hard. Is it because mate? Yeah, mate. It's just, yeah, okay. Just thinking out loud here,
out here. You know how hunters have Summon Hawk that effectively replaces Arcane Shot
if you're Beast Mastery? And Summon Hawk fits the Beast Mastery lore better than Arcane
shot. It's effectively the same button. What if for mages you did something with fireball
fire blast for arcane you gave a replacement to fire blast under arcane that did like a
I don't know arcane arcane blast and I already exist crap. I don't know what you name it.
that was a third button to press, right?
That was a filler spell that you could consume
Arcane Blast with.
I guess that's just barrage.
I guess that's just barrage.
I guess that's just what barrage is.
But maybe you could rename it a little bit.
Maybe it's Arcane Burn.
Maybe it's Arcane Brand.
Yeah, Arcane something.
But you guys see what I'm saying, right?
Like it's not just a new spell.
It's a spell like Summit Hawk
that replaces an existing spell that makes it thematically
more arcane, but also gives you that third button
to press that makes sense.
You know what I mean?
You guys following that?
I think that actually would be good.
Why is Broso against Barrage?
I actually like Barrage.
It's more that I want to be more creative
than just copy-pasting a spec that already exists.
Why?
Maybe you're right. Maybe we're thinking too hard. Maybe you just bring over...
Yeah, maybe you just copy paste our wrath.
Maybe maybe it's just rat dark in guys. Maybe you just said maybe you just give a barrage
What if it's a what if it's barrage, but it's a little different than the wrath one what if it's instead of like
like I don't know you can only use it when you have four stack arcane blasts so it's
like effectively like a button that's grayed out when you have four stack arcane blasts
you press it and it's big damage I'm just trying to think of like how to not how to
prevent the play style like you just spam barrage over and over in PvP to which is annoying
for everyone. Yeah, maybe it's some barrage variant that replaces Fire Blast in some capacity.
And that's your that's your third button. And then that's still three, which is very
on the low end, but at least it'd be three. Spell Bolt. Spell that is equal parts, three
magic type. So like Balefire comes from a proc or has a 20 second cooldown and the spell
that follows gives increased damage to that type of spell for 10 seconds. Okay, I kind
Kind of like how you're thinking.
A new spell that uses all forms of magic.
You know what it should be.
The spell that is added to Arcane needs to be the ultimate Arcane Blast Spender.
You guys agree?
It needs to be like, okay, I stack up for Arcane Blast,
I'm gonna send this.
Like a Triune Blast, like a Balefire,
like something that's just like fat, you know?
Like Barrage.
Yeah.
Why?
Just so it's interesting, right?
New spell, Arcane Devastation, crap that went away, I was reading it and then the chat moved
too fast.
Okay, cast time that consumes 4 stacks of Arcane Blast do good damage and refund mana.
Yeah, I think I kind of like that.
It's like this big cast that is going to utilize the 4 stacks more than they would with any
other spell.
So it could read like Arcane Blast stacks are twice as effective or something.
It's like the spell that you want to consume with,
and it's just fat damage, but it kind of sucks to spam,
like, or maybe it has a cooldown,
but when you arcane blast, arcane blast, arcane blast,
arcane blast, then a spender,
and then you go back to arcane blast,
and of course, you missile barrage along the way.
And maybe you'd have to make missile barrage
not consume arcane blast stacks or something,
so that you could spend it with the thing
you're supposed to spend it with, I don't know.
Gosh, that sounds boring.
So it would be more interesting than what we currently have, just two buttons to be
a third at least.
Blink Strike consumes four stacks of Arcane Blast to deal heavy magic damage and melee
range, knocking up your target and it restets the cooldown of Blink.
Okay, one, that's creative.
Two, that would be really fun on PVP.
for PvP that's 2 OP and for PvE that's probably too annoying. But like, it's very creative,
very cool. Okay, I have an idea. What if you made Arcane
Arcane Blast increase in mana each stack, but then it resets the mana cost when you
use the new spell.
And a new spell, more damage equals more stacks.
Then the skill is perfect mana, manage mana on each boss, since you know when to do three
blasts into a new spell or four.
Well, that's what Barrage is, Tactics.
Like Barrage, the way, okay, so if you guys have never played Arcane Mage, the way Barrage
has worked, works is you manage your mana with it.
You want to spam Arcane Blast as much as you can at 4 stacks because it's fat damage.
But if you go Oom, you're not doing any damage.
So you use Barrage as little as you can to sustain enough mana to actually continue doing
as many Blast as possible.
Like that's Arcane.
So maybe you just give it Barrage.
Okay.
I think we should move on.
I think we should move on.
It's definitely something that is hard to solve.
But the conversations like this are very fun because it gives you insight on, like, like,
Blizzard's job.
It's easy to complain.
It's hard to come up with a solution that would be awesome.
Like I can sit here and be like, oh, Mages only have two buttons whereas everyone else
has three to five.
Blizzard you suck.
Or I could sit here and think, crap.
What's the third button?
I don't know, you know?
It gives you some appreciation for it.
This Arcane Blast doesn't increase its own damage, only other spells?
Really?
Am I reading it wrong?
Oh, you're right!
Wow. I actually read that wrong again. Each time you cast Arcane Blast, the damage of all your other spells increased by 10, so it's not Arcane Blast itself.
I thought it was all spells by 10, including itself, but it doesn't include itself, all other spells.
Wow, I've read this wrong like so many times.
I thought it was all spells.
Then the question becomes, you want to spend it at four stacks, probably, what would you
spend it on?
And missiles is the obvious answer, especially if you have missile barrage, but assuming
you do not have a missile barrage. What would you spend it on?
Probably just send another arcane blast until you get a missile
barrage and send it on a missile barrage.
Because it's a 40% chance.
You'll always have a missile barrage.
Hold on, is that a bad take? It's a 40% chance. You need four of
them you have four stacks if you don't get one you just cast another in another
and another like you 40% chance you have four tries to get it and if you don't
you drive five or six you pretty much always have it you'd spend with
missile brush nearly every time under very rare circumstances like very rare
that you don't get it off their five or six casts.
What would you spend it on?
Probably just an unpropped missile.
I can't imagine Fireball being worth the cast.
I really can't.
Maybe you just had a Fireblast and keep going, yeah.
Pompyro with Bad RNG. Right, right, right. Yeah.
Arcane Crest and a 4 stacks of Arcane Blast sent out a wave of 10 yards to the fastest enemies up to 40 yards and leaves behind a pulse.
Interesting. That reminds me of like the lead champion, Huai.
Just changed HotStrike to also stack up from Arcane Blast. That's just thematically weird.
You guys agree with me hot streak needs to proc off of fire spells.
You can't just say oh hot streak also can like that's just weird.
Elemental bombs and every spec like so if you have living bomb frost bomb and nether
tempest.
Yeah, but it's been done and it's kind of boring, but yeah.
Yeah, I don't know. RK needs a third one. I think that still stands.
Can we stop min-maxing already sad face?
Let's just play when it's here and enjoy it.
The beta comes out Thursday.
We're not min-maxing to try to like 99 parts.
We're reading the talents to make sure that there's no changes that should be done before
actual game comes out. In other words, this is not min-maxing. This is making sure that
classes have enough buttons or not too many buttons. Oh, okay. Yeah. Here we go. Wander.
Thanks for the prime burns. Thanks for the super chat. Crazy idea, but what about offensive
of charges of mere images that will repeat a spell cast
and strategically use it for building blast charges
or extra missiles.
Maybe, maybe.
Yo, nice meeting you, man.
Bubble Barn, thanks for the five.
He says, hey, Zahra, I know you probably won't see this,
but thank you so much for signing my poster
and my wife's Toronto poster.
Legend, legend.
Thank you so much for saying hi, I appreciate you.
Arcane Siphon and Arcane Spell that deals less damage than a Proct Missile, but restores
like 2% mana per Arcane Blast that consumed.
So it's like a way to reach in mana.
That would work if Arcane Blast worked on itself, because then you could spam as many
arcane blast is possible then like restore mana or something but since arcane blast doesn't work
on itself you actually want to use the proc at four stacks so that ability wouldn't make much sense
arcane salvo similar to missiles but less and more damage including fire bazooka style
make a spell called zarkane bang generate stacks arcane energy when blasting empowering your
your arcane explosion by 200% and resetting your blink cooldown.
Give you two stacks of blink, but blink mana cost has increased.
Is arcane bang?
OK.
I'll think about this arcane bang.
See what happens there.
Can someone ask ChatGPT, what would you do to add a third button?
We need some actual ideas here, man.
Better than this arcane bang.
because I mean, she's Louise.
A talent.
Oh, crap.
A talent that gives you a small damage buff
for each school of magic you use,
which you have to keep up.
That could also fix frost as well.
The thing is, is like how fun is it to press a button that does like no damage?
Like say you wanted to keep up frost, fire, and arcane spells all the time.
So that would mean like you're fire blasting on cooldown theoretically, and then maybe
sending like a rank 1 frost bolt or like an ice lance on cooldown, or like a frost nova
on cooldown.
So retail actually had an ability like this, it was called, it was a legendary item in BFA.
Oh crap, it was if you used three schools of magic simultaneously, you got a buff for 15 seconds that increased your damage.
What was that called? It was a legendary in Shadowlands actually, I think.
Someone knows. What was that called?
I don't know, whatever, it doesn't matter what it was called.
But like, what you would do is if you ever wanted the burst, you would just like, sheep,
frost nova fireblast, and you were online, because sheep gave you the arcane, fireblast
gave you the fire, nova gave, like, you would just frost nova nothing, and then it would
give you your damage to where you could then pump, you know?
I think it was called disciplinary command.
But they removed it because it felt weird.
I actually thought it was okay.
But they removed it because it felt weird to literally just cast a Frost Nerva for no
reason other than the Proctus.
So it was casting Frost, Fire, and Arcane spells within 10 seconds of each other increases
your critical strike damage of all your spells by 20%.
So this is what it was.
Right?
So you could add this in, but it is kind of weird in the sense that like, say you're just
like arcane what it would mean is you're like arcane arcane arcane and whenever it's up you would
just do like frost nova fire blast that's what it would be you frost nova air fire blast and then
you get this up and you keep streaming arcane is that fun is it is that interesting not really
frost nova air fire blast and you get a buff and you just keep doing your normal rotation right
feels too gamey yeah so they ended up getting rid of it for that reason it wasn't like a long
long live spell. People were like, oh, this is kind of silly. So anyway, it's a decent
idea, but I don't think so.
So our four stack AB idea, new spell that consumes all of your charges, arcane shatter
or fracture or something. Okay, shatter the arcane energies surrounding your target,
dealing moderate arcane damage, and consuming arcane charges to empower your next arcane
Missile, consuming all arcane charges.
For each arcane charge consumed,
your next arcane missile deals 10% increased damage.
How does that work with Missile Barrage?
It doesn't really play in well.
However, you gave me an idea.
What if they gave arcane an execute to some degree?
I was going to troll for a second, but let's say serious.
That like...
Dude, I can't make any suggestions, because you guys are going to think I'm just trying
to make Majors OP.
You guys are going to think I'm just trying to make them OP, but that's not what I'm trying
to do.
I'm trying to make them fun, okay?
But yeah, what if you just made a button that, like, you know, increased damage under 35%
life, so like, you have the two button rotation, but it changes to more of a three once they're
low, kind of execute for Warrior.
Warrior has your bloodthirst, your whirlwind, and your heroic strike, but once the target
gets low, you get opened up to execute as well as a fourth button.
But if you only had to, but under a certain percentage of boss life, you get introduced
to a third.
Exactly, just make Arcane Blast a 15-second buff and not one charge, so you can dump on
pyros and play around Frostfire Bolt to fish for Hot Shrieks, and that's just fire, like
that would be fire Arcane, which is fine, but we're talking about a deep Arcane build.
I hate to say it, but it's probably this barrage.
It's probably just the most simple, proper answer to this.
Oh my gosh, I just want to play already, man.
I asked ChatGPT about the Arcane rotation, and the answer was add Arcane Barrage.
Nice.
Arcane Rupture Finishing Spell, 3-second cast, tears-opening Arcane energies accumulated
within the target, dealing 300 to 375 Arcane Damage, plus 75% additional damage for each
stack of Arcane Blast on the caster. Consumes all Arcane Blast stacks. If casted and forced
stacks Arcane Rupture refunds 20% of mana generating those stacks and grants you Missile
Barrage. If you did something like that then Missile Barrage has to be changed a bit to
to not consume stacks.
Arcane orb.
Okay, guys, my brain, we need a new conversation.
My brain is cooked.
Like, I can't keep reading these.
There might be some good solutions in there,
but guys, we've been on this for like two hours.
I would like to go, but my brain's cooked.
We have to do something different.
My brain is like, I can't, there's no way.
There's no way.
Um, okay. There's gotta be something. Um, we've covered every single talent.
I've talked about what I like, what I don't like, and what I'm indifferent about.
Um, there's gotta be a video we haven't seen, I'm trying to think.
We've looked at every class. Oh, the Professions tab.
Hmm.
I haven't seen this, oh okay, wait is this, is this real?
I haven't seen this.
Is this all like real or is this like some fake news?
Yeah?
Okay, okay, okay, I haven't seen any of this, let's cover this.
Alk.
Mixology.
You make, elixir is in flasks.
Philosopher's stone for alchemy.
Craft an upgradeable trinket that grows with your Alk skill.
real? Whoa, you get a philosopher stone if you're Alk. Okay, upgrade. I wonder how it's
going to compare with other trinkets. Those aren't confirmed not real. Hmm. I didn't see
this up. BlizzCon, neither did I. Hold on. Where is this? Where is this new? How can we
confirm this is real. I feel like this might be fake. Belt buckles on blacksmith. I mean
it's cool. Transcribe from BlizzCon 2026 demo footage rather than the live client. So treat
exact running as provisional until the beta ships.
Could you even get professions on the beta?
I never tried, or on the demo.
I don't know how real this is.
Can someone send me a like video of any type of proof that like someone actually went and like try like I don't want to cover stuff is if it's just fake
You can see the trainer seems fake like none of this stuff has been talked about or announced as far as I know it seems kind of legit to be honest
No stream, no video, nothing on stream or on stage.
Okay, so I don't cover this, then.
At least for now, I'll assume it's fake.
Could be real, but...
Yeah, so we saw this.
So, on the topic of trade skills, this is an area that has been given a massive amount
of love in a while forever.
Even outside of what I just described with the camping additions.
There are over 600 new recipes.
So what I just said, new recipes across all professions and level ranges in a while forever.
Thank you.
In addition, many existing recipes have been overhauled in some way.
Even at low levels, you will feel the impact of your profession choice in a meaningful way
and you'll be excited to continue to level your professions as you go.
Compliment to camping cooking and food have also received a substantial overhaul. Okay, almost all so yeah
I mean we watch this I like none of this stuff has
Like anything to do with that link, right so
It's a demo footage. I played the demo. I didn't see any of that
But maybe I didn't see it so if we're gonna get footage of
Where this was from then I'll cover it but
It doesn't say where it's from either.
MMORPG had an interview with a friend.
Oh, there actually were some other interviews.
Okay. There was this.
Everybody is going to start from level one,
and that's when the journey,
the real journey all the way up to level 60 will occur,
which means all the content that we've added from level 30 to
level 60 will not have been experienced yet.
Okay, and in the store, you know, if I start my second character, how do I catch up?
Can I buy a token or something?
So no plans for anything like a wild token or a man's store?
I mean, the journey really is what the game is. I mean, the end game is amazing.
As we said on stage, the end game is epic. It's awesome.
And all the stuff we've done at end game is amazing, but the journey is so important.
and you play the game or you get better at the game by playing the game and it's all about that
level 160 journey and the people you meet along the way and that's why as Nora said we've implemented
these systems to really reinforce that because there's some players who just love that journey
and the experiences they have and all the new content that we've added.
Some players that's like the majority of players man so this is a massive W man this is massive
no tokens no boosts you should be leveling and getting out there and doing the journey that's
That's what the game is about.
That's quite literally what the game is about, right?
It's not just get to end game and raid log.
It's about the journey.
I think there was
a full interview.
Let's watch this.
So I missed.
So that little snippet from Twitter
was from this full interview.
I haven't seen this interview.
Let's check this out.
This is 30 minutes.
I think there was maybe another one or two
that I haven't seen.
Your thoughts on a paid raise.
If the game itself had a box price,
I hate the idea of a paid raise,
but since the game is free with a sub, like no box price,
you just need the sub to play like season of discovery.
It makes a lot of sense.
The optics on it are pretty terrible
because you can ask a question like,
what do you think about a paid race?
Like that shouldn't even be a question to ask.
So the optics are awful.
The price tag itself is phenomenal.
Yeah, what that could have been instead
is just a $29.99 box price
and no one would have blinked an eye.
Everyone would have been like, wow, that's great.
So maybe they should have just done that instead.
But the optics on it are like,
oh, you're paying for a race that sucks.
It's paid a win, but it's free.
So anyway,
as we're in combos about GDP, not that I know of.
All right, let's take a look at this video.
Guys, this is an interview we haven't seen
from Destin, and he sat down with Clay and Nora,
it looks like, so let's take a look.
The entire reason I headed down to BlizzCon yesterday
was because I wanted to play World of Warcraft forever.
But in a surprise turn of events,
I also got to talk directly with the WoW Classic
and WoW Forever team, including software engineer,
Noor Mills, you might remember her from being on stage,
and associate production director, Clay Stone,
who was also on stage.
And I got to talk to them all about bringing this game
to players like myself who feel like they missed out,
but now have an opportunity to jump in
as early as next week when the beta drops.
I'll see you in-game on November 4th,
beta starts this Thursday,
and you can play the demo here today.
Have a great rest of your day.
Bro, that was such an insane moment,
like all of these blizzcon announcements
and they're saying a bunch of nothing forever
and then they drop this.
And it's like classic plus November 4th,
beta five base demo now go.
It's just like, oh shoot.
It's like, oh my gosh.
You can play the demo here today.
Have a great first time everyone.
And of course in November, World of Warcraft Forever
will be there for everyone to start at level one.
World of Warcraft Forever launches in seven weeks.
Yeah.
On November 4th.
There is no catch-up mechanic.
There's a level cap at 60.
And it really feels like a new game
where I'm not going to be lost or left behind as a new wild player.
And that is incredibly exciting to me.
The journey is so important.
And you play the game,
or you get better at the game by playing the game.
And it's all about that level 160 journey.
journey and the people you meet along the way.
And that's why, as Nora said, we've implemented these systems
to really reinforce that.
First, let's-
I love that this is such a foundational pillar
because, yes, rating is fun.
You know, yes, the pre-bis grind is fun
and getting in there, but so much a classic wow
for most players is leveling.
We've already covered that, but what I was gonna say is
like nine new dungeons.
It's not that they're just adding a raid at end game
and more stuff to do at Endgame to continue Classic Era.
But instead, they're enriching the leveling experience
with things like the campfire and dungeons
and more zones while leveling,
like leveling zones, right?
Like Riverglades or something.
Of course, there's Endgame stuff too.
Like Hygiel, I think it's an Endgame zone.
And of course, there's Endgame content.
But I love that it's not just Endgame content.
They're putting in a lot of stuff
for that leveling experience.
It's very nice.
Let's talk about the interview and then we'll talk a little bit about what I learned during
my hands on session.
The big takeaway for me from my conversation is that this game will specifically make you
earn your way up.
Every player starting at level one, even after the beta sets a nice even playing field, given
the crazy good players an opportunity to grind their face off in the beta, hit level 20 quickly,
then grind to 30 once that level cap is increased.
And it sounds like everyone will reset at launch day,
meaning no one gets left behind
and the best players can get ranked up quickly.
And then a couple of weeks in, we're gonna raise that.
That'll go up to 30,
but we're gonna stay at 30 for the rest of beta.
And then when we hit launch day,
that's when everybody's gonna start fresh.
Everybody's gonna start from level one.
But someone like myself can take my time,
level up at my pace and enjoy
this new World of Warcraft entry.
No WoW tokens to level, no dark portal
that'll leave me behind, plenty of new areas to explore
and classic areas to find new tips and tricks in.
I love that.
I also like that they landed on something
I think works really well for transmog animations
and giving me the option to choose what I like the most.
I'll own up to it.
Like I was somewhat of a naysayer.
Like I was, you know, I don't want transmog
in my classic plus type of mindset.
Yeah, me too.
And what, through our discussions
and through our kind of like planning
like what if, okay, well, what if when you turn it off,
it turns it off for everyone for you, you know what I mean?
Like what we ultimately landed on
for those on the team who weren't interested
in having it on, when we were like, okay,
actually, given that this isn't going to disrupt my experience
and I'm still going to be able to like glance at you,
see what you're wearing and like, okay, you've got some skill.
You've earned these certain armor pieces.
It's one of those things that we sort of warmed up to it
and decided, you know what, where we landed,
hits the sweet spot.
As a huge fan of the classic look,
I'll be putting that on there 100%.
And looking forward, the big question I had was,
what happens in two years?
What happens to keep all this fresh?
At least for the foreseeable future,
our plan is we are staying on Azeroth.
I meant it when I said it,
that we are gonna be expanding horizontally.
And that means exploring the unfinished or unused zones
that the original development team
maybe simply never had the time to build
or these different places that players have built up
in their minds about what classic plus means to them.
I like the idea of a game that I don't have to live in,
but a game that also has enough options
to keep me engaged should I want to know why fit
for a week or two.
So that is great stuff.
Look, I'm gonna post the full interview in this video
after this recap, but there was also a panel going on
literally as I'm writing this and reading this
with more details about WoW Forever.
So more stuff is going to be coming out in the days to come.
And on the hands-on time, I dove into the basics,
visual options, a quick look at the different.
I think he said a week or two
because there's a lot of players,
I'm sure a lot of people listening that do that, right?
They don't play WoW for a while.
They have real life stuff they would like to,
but they don't have the time.
And then they want to come in and just like full send
for a week or two, and then get back to real life for a while
and then full send for a week or two,
and then get back to real life for a while,
and then full send for a week or two.
I don't want to,
okay, why is this a conversation?
In a horizontal progressing game, this is possible.
Because when you leave for a while and come back,
you're still the level cap.
Your gear is still somewhat usable.
You're not completely left behind
on a completely different continent
of like you're irrelevant.
No, you could actually do that.
Yes, you're gonna be a little bit weaker.
You're gonna not understand the meta game.
Maybe you have to swap your talents and this and that,
but you're gonna have some foundation
to just pick it back up and get into the,
you know, get into the stuff where you left off at.
And it's not gonna be a big deal.
So that's why he said that.
That's why he said that.
This is a big pro to RuneScape.
With RuneScape, it's a game that horizontally progresses.
And you can take a break for a year and come back
and pick up right where you left off and continue.
And retail, if you take a break for a year,
you can't do that.
It's like, OK, well, everything I did before
doesn't really matter.
My whole gear set's completely out of date.
And I can't really do the rate I was doing,
because now there's two new ones.
And I have to get CouchRip gear to even start the new stuff.
Like you can't do that in a vertically progressing game.
So his point was a good one.
And so hopefully that makes more sense now,
but that's the whole like horizontal progression argument.
It's like you wanna be able to set it down
and then pick it back up and then set it down
and pick it back up.
That's the whole point, right?
Is that your progress matters, right?
Classes and what it's like playing on a controller
in the new staging area.
On that, I prefer keyboard,
but since this is the first official controller support,
I just had to try it out.
And as you can see, it's very similar
to the Final Fantasy 14 controller support.
You can pull the trigger or left trigger
to execute elevated commands.
You can pick up a loop with X on the Xbox controller
and it feels very intuitive.
Look, I'm not gonna hide it.
I am an absolute newbie when it comes to World of Warcraft.
I'm not gonna pretend I know everything
or even the basics.
People have had so much time
and they know so much more than I do about this game.
But there's something really exciting about forever
that I think the community is really excited about
and it gives players like me a chance to dive in.
I cannot.
Well, that's important.
I was just talking to someone over the weekend at the con
and I was saying like,
this is a good chance to hop in if you've never played
in the sense that like,
it's not crazy complicated to pick up
in terms of like this like retail complexity, right?
It's kind of like classic,
But, and everyone's starting on the same playing field, right?
It's actually the perfect time to start WoW if you never have.
It's also a really good time if you're a classic enjoyer
to play what we've wanted for a long time.
It's also a good time for a re-tune.
It's a good time to play forever.
Okay, it's very good.
Not wait for next week.
All right, here's the full interview.
Let me know how I did.
And if I missed any juicy tidbits in the comments below.
I am so excited about WoW forever.
So I missed World of Warcraft original,
like back in the day, right?
I was dumb when I played Final Fantasy XI
because I wanted to keep a difference.
That's another great game, that's another great game.
I wanted to be different and edgy,
but I missed out on World of Warcraft.
Then my classic-
And Cleveland State.
And, you know, the past Wrath of the Lich King,
the iconic moments and Burning Crusade
and all the moments happen.
What do you feel like is, with Wild Forever,
what is really gonna set it apart
and give people like me who are super excited
to be there at the start, that fresh beginning.
I would say it, I mean, already kind of,
it's sheer existence, it's freshness of its launch,
like it's already a fresh beginning, right?
But also, I think the way that we're trying
to communicate what it is, right?
It is a third pillar.
So there's classic, wow forever, and modern, right?
And so you don't have to have played classic,
you don't have to have played modern,
You don't have to have played any version of World of Warcraft to be able to kind of
jump in and embark on a journey.
And many of the changes, systems, the stuff that has gone into WoW Forever has gone in
with Player Agency and the journey in mind, such that like we have, you know, we thought
about ratios, we thought about the, like we implemented the legacy system, which allows
is you to spend points and gain perks
in ways that will influence your next play through.
So you're being rewarded for spinning up new characters
and embarking on new journeys from fresh, right?
What are racials?
Oh, there we go, there we go, there we go.
That's actually, we should probably say that.
Each, but yeah, do you want to?
I saw it in the presentation, I'm like, well, wait.
Yeah, so each race and world of Warcraft
tends to have like unique things that they're good at.
So like, I tend to play Night Elves
and like, you know, they have like shadow melds.
you can kind of like, like I'm running around through the world and I'm like, oh, well,
I'm going to, you know, maybe I want to go to the restroom, but I don't want to like
log off or something.
I'm going to go up against like a tree or something and I'm going to hit shadow meld,
which causes me to stealth.
Right.
So you don't get AFK.
Yeah.
I do that a lot.
Or you know, like if I'm in an environment where there's enemy players, like I might
be like, oh, I'm going to.
Okay.
I think I think a lot of us might know what ratios are but with the third pillar point is it's a good one to chat about right you have
Modern Wow
You have classic Wow
Now we they're they're they're committing themselves to having forever as this third thing. It's not quite
Classic obviously it's a different timeline and it's not modern. So I made the the copium take, right?
like, maybe it has only been one or two years ago,
that I think if done right,
Classic Plus could be bigger than retail.
And everyone laughed me out of the room,
like I'm the biggest idiot they've ever seen.
Am I still an idiot?
Be honest, you could say yes.
I'm, no, yes, no, I mean,
it seems a little more split now.
Like, maybe I'm still wrong,
But I think a product like this really might just appeal
to way more people in the long run
to where like five years from now,
like forever could be the main thing that people are playing.
For someone like this who's never played WoW,
do you think he has a higher chance of playing forever
or retail?
For people that are long time WoW players that quit retail,
do you think they have a higher chance of going back
to retail or trying forever?
That's my point, that's my point.
That's why I'm saying in the long run,
I really think it could do insane.
I think it could literally be bigger than retail.
I'm not kidding.
With poor decisions, with wow tokens, with boosts,
with bugs, with bots, with, you know, this and that,
maybe it sucks, like so.
But what I'm saying is the potential is there
for this thing to be massive, right?
And I said that a year or two ago
and I got completely laughed out of the room by everyone.
But it's like, well, I don't know, man.
I don't know how crazy that is.
It has more potential for the returning player.
It has more potential for the player that's never played.
Hi, you know, or hide and ambush them.
And so like the racial abilities that each race
in World of Warcraft has,
has kind of like, it's evolved over time
throughout the years up and leading up and through like modern, right.
And in classic, they're quite distinct.
There, there've been a lot of chatter about like, oh, what if, you know, we,
we tried to even the playing field and like give, you know, you can pick and
choose which racials you have.
But like in forever, we want to reward that, like give you a reason to bring a
different race with you to your journey, right?
We want to reward you for, uh, or like encourage you to want to try the racial
parks for a different race, but you know what, I'm going to try undead, right? I'm going to try, which undead can cannibalize corpses, kind of creepy, but, you know, it is awesome. So it's, it's one of those things that like it's, it's, it's giving you sort of more options to influence what kind of journey you have. And we want players to want to embark on those journeys, because along those journeys are the opportunities
you'll have to meet your next best friend or like a bunch of my long time while
friends attended my wedding last year.
You know what I mean?
The connections are just so true and so genuine and we want to encourage
that through what we build.
Okay.
That's a lot of words.
I'm sorry.
Sorry, I kind of threw it off, but if, if you want to tell me more about why
you're excited, you know, it really represents, it's a fresh start.
I mean, at the end of the day, it's a fresh start.
It's taking this game, this beloved game,
that many people know and love,
and a return to being the humble adventurer.
You know, the classic series of games that we've worked on
has gone in a direction,
and the modern game has gone in a direction,
and there's world ending threats and a ton of lore.
And where we're starting from
is where we started from back at the beginning
of World of Warcraft,
and we are living in that simple, humble adventure,
vanilla timeframe, where the journey is more.
Dude, we got to send a quick glaze real quick.
The season of discovery team, the classic team.
Has been pretty darn awesome.
I'm talking, I'm not talking everyone at Blizzard.
I think they have people above them.
This and that big corporations, blah, blah, blah.
You guys know the drill, but these guys.
Josh Greenfield, Clay Stone, Tim Jones, Nora, Anna.
These got like, it's such a great little team, right?
It almost feels like a little micro company
within a larger company.
They have just done a good job.
All right, a quick little glaze.
All right, I mean, these guys, I feel like our,
you know, classic players,
feel like they have like a little like,
they're trying to just get us what we want.
And it clearly shows, right?
They're like, they're trying to do these things.
Of course, not everything comes through,
but they're trying to do these things with the journey,
with the horizontal progression.
Like they're clearly listening.
We'll see if it like works.
We'll see if we, you know, hopefully the game is good,
but it's a quick glaze.
I just had to, man.
It's like, it's been cool.
It's been cool following it since son, you know?
More important than the destination
than the world is the main character.
And it looked like on the roadmap,
beta will take you to level 30,
and then we can go all the way to 60 after that.
Is that right?
Yes, so when we start beta,
we will actually be starting with a level 20 cap.
And then a couple of weeks in, we're gonna raise that,
that'll go up to 30, but we're gonna stay at 30
for the rest of beta.
And then when we hit launch day,
that's when everybody's gonna start fresh.
Everybody's gonna start from level one,
and that's when the journey, the real journey,
all the way up to level 60 will occur,
which means all the content that we've added
from level 30 to level 60
will not have been experienced yet.
Okay, and in the store,
if I start my second character, how do I catch up?
Can I buy a token or something?
So no plans for anything like a wild token or a boost?
Oh, man, sorry.
Or anything like that.
I don't like that.
I mean, the journey.
I hope they stick to this in the long run, man.
Never a boost, never a token.
No plans for it, OK?
Like, there's going to be no token, no boost.
I love it.
I hope they stick to that.
Like, yeah.
What's the monetization model?
Right?
$15 a month for a membership fee if you want the new race 30 bucks down the line
You know the level cap saying 60
I don't know if they're gonna sell expansions
maybe the monetization model is continuing to do more races for $30 each and
$15 a month for sub I
Hope it stays like that and nothing else no shop
No boosts no tokens. I would like no mounts. I would like no cosmetics
and we'll see what happens.
He really is, is what the game is.
I mean, the end game is amazing.
As we said on stage, the end game is epic.
It's awesome.
And all the stuff we've done at end game is amazing,
but the journey is so important.
And you play the game, or you get better at the game
by playing the game.
And it's all about that level 160 journey
and the people you meet along the way.
And that's why, as Nora said,
we've implemented these systems to really reinforce that.
Because there's some players who just love that journey.
and the experiences that they have
and all the new content that we've added
from the fine new places on that on the drone.
So, yeah.
Nora, in your presentation.
I feel like the legacy system is a really good idea,
but I feel like it needs work.
Like, I love the idea of incentivizing leveling alts,
but the talent starting at five instead of 10
just feels like way too strong.
And I feel like some of the challenges
aren't like unique enough.
I think what I want is like a way to level in,
reason to level an alt in a new way. For some tiny little thing that just shows that I did it,
some tiny little token of like, I did this little unique challenge and it was cool.
And that's all I feel like the legacy system needs to be. I don't know if it needs to have
like an incredible amount of character power or make you feel like, oh, I need to level a bunch
to get more of these points to to make sure that I'm up to date on all these
things I don't want to be that right so hopefully there's some fine-tuning on the
legacy system like I said I like the concept a lot but it's implementation
that needs to be kind of fine-tuned here and you took us through the different
zones what level are appropriate for those zones and how to level up there as
somebody who's not as familiar with why they're important or noted tell me a
a little bit more about why those zones were chosen
and how you landed on them as different areas,
and the new areas.
Yeah, so one of the things we tried to do
with Wild Forever is like, there's sort of like,
you know, we have a classic audience
who's deeply familiar with the classic ethos,
the lore, sort of what areas of the world
have not yet been explored and what's, you know, kind of,
and everyone's kind of had their own hypothesis
as to what they expect us to do, right?
And so we talk about kind of like, okay,
Well, what are the things we are super expected to do?
What are the things that we're maybe,
a little bit expected,
but maybe we add our own little twist,
and then what are the things
that we add that are potentially unexpected, right?
When the unexpected maybe would have been
the Sky Elves race, right?
As an example, the River Glades, I feel,
is one of those things that there was that,
kind of a piece, a chunk of map
that hadn't really been filled out.
There was room there and there was an opportunities to sort of like give you something to do other than, you know, spam, you know, go spam Scarlet Monastery, really.
But like something that allows you to kind of explore more of that classic world deeply rooted in like I remember folks internally playing through the riverglades and giving us the feedback like
Holy smokes, it feels like it was in Classic the whole time, right?
And so like, we want to make sure that what we build makes,
it's congruent with what should belong in Classic,
what would make sense, what people would expect,
but we also want to surprise and delight in certain cases.
Like, yeah, I think the Chendor was probably the biggest surprise.
Yeah, definitely.
Am I saying it right? Chendor?
Chendor, yeah, Chendor, yeah, Chendor, yeah, okay.
Yeah, Chendor, yeah.
The only other thing that I would add to that too,
for folks who have played the original version back then,
there were certain points where that original team
kind of ran out of time.
Yeah.
And so in the leveling journey,
there's gaps in contents that would happen.
And this was really an opportunity for us to build things
that felt authentically classic and authentically vanilla
and fill out the spaces.
People in my chat were saying that some of the areas
people would glitch into and they would like have theories
about them.
Is that true?
Like in the day, like way back.
They would glitch in a certain.
Like old iron forge underneath stormwind.
um, like glitching, I don't know, like above or like under Orgammar or like above the auction house,
like all these different spots, Hyshal, GM Island, um, yeah, the STV Tiger area, there's a place,
I don't know if you guys remember, it's like in between Barrens, like you get to like these
zones in the mountains where there's like a bunch of nothing and you can just hang out there and
and duel your friends. I remember I spent countless hours there, just like climbing up mountains
and glitching in these areas and then just hanging out all day. But yeah. Oh, Iron Forge Airstrip.
Oh, top of Iron Forge, the Airstrip, but on the top too. Yeah, so many of them. So there's so much
to build out. Yeah. Areas and the chemical theories about. Yeah, like, hi, Joel was one of them mentioned.
Yeah, I was certainly gonna, I was certainly blanching at against as a player back in the
the day trying to find, you know, like, I think there was a time when I was trying to
like get to GM Island and, you know, explore that.
Like there's always, our players are so incredibly creative and they historically have been so
rewarded by our game for exploration, right?
Like, and not in the sense that like you're going to find, oh my gosh, I explored a certain
area of the map and somehow I found this incredible ax on the ground that is best in slot or something.
It's more of a like you're getting rewarded through little lower tidbits and things that
sort of make the world feel more alive and more like something that is lived in versus
you know like kind of you know smoke and mirrors sort of like fake I don't know what you would
call it like cropped up like a facade almost right it feels like a living world where world
is main character right yeah trans mod you often to have a toggle I really like that
as a middle ground. Some people feel like you should have drawn a line in the sand and
either picked on or off. How do you feel about you gave the presentation on Transmog, didn't
you? Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, I mean, you know, I really
meant to when I said, I know I was humorous there on stage about it, but you asked 50
different classic players what the Envision Classic Plus to be, and you're going to get
70 answers to 100 different answers. I mean, you name it. And Transmog, we found is one
of those topics that players love the debate over for sure. We think that we've approached
it in a really smart way where and you'll hear more about this tomorrow by the way in the deep dive
panel that we're going to do and some of the classic modifications that we've made to transmog
for folks that choose to engage with it but we've really found a way with this option to where if
you don't want it to be in the game in your version of classic plus and wow forever you can
effectively ignore it entirely and imagine it so it doesn't even exist with that with the change
that we put in but for the players who love it who really love and have shown that they love it
this is an opportunity for them to be able to express themselves in the way that they want to
express themselves. Guys, for Transmog, just a quick show of hands. How many of you are so excited
that they're adding an option to play with Transmog and you can't wait to make your character look
cool and farm Transmog? Is there a lot of you? Me, yes, me, okay. Okay, so there are people.
I just wanted to confirm that because I am not that person I'm very excited to turn that off
so maybe the toggle was the right choice because like to me what I probably would have done is
just said no transmog sorry guys go play retail to be honest but maybe there's enough of you
where the toggle was actually a better choice than just saying no I don't see any world where you
would have just said only transmog like yes allow it like that would have been the worst but
But yeah, maybe toggle is the appropriate middle ground here then if so many of you
guys like can't wait to farm that.
So my big reason as to why I think I would have just said no transmog across the board
is something along the lines of like say you go up to someone and they have transmog on
and you have transmog off.
And you go up to them and you say like,
haha, nice sword, I remember getting that one or something.
Or like, you say like something along those lines.
And what you see on your screen is different
from what they see on their screen.
What happens is it fragments the world.
You're seeing different things
on your two different screens.
I'm scared of that a little bit.
Having said that, I think it's a trade off that might be worth taking because so many
people like the idea of transmog.
So I think I'm fine with it.
But that is a negative, right?
I think it's a small negative, but it does exist.
With every design decision, there's going to be positives and there's going to be negatives.
And the question isn't, is there positives or negatives?
question is, is there a net positive or is there a net negative? That's a much
different question, right? And I think in the case of Transmog, the toggle is
probably a net positive. It does fracture the world slightly, but in return, you have
a massive amount of players that are now going to be excited to farm Transmog to
old content and play the game way, way, way longer and more than they would have
if it didn't exist. So even though there's negative aspects that I don't like, I might concede and say
yeah, that's a net positive. Sure, that's a net positive even though it does bring some negative.
So we think it is the best of both worlds. We think that it reaches both of the audiences
on any other direction. One of the cool things about our team too is that we're
the classic team, we are staffed with passionate players, right?
And like, as you know, right, the classic audience has a variety of completely different opinions
a lot of the time.
Yeah.
So do we sometimes, you know, and we have to have these discussions and like, I'll own
up to it.
Like I was somewhat of a naysayer.
Like I was, you know, I was like, I don't want transmog, you know, in my classic plus
type of mindset.
And what through our discussions and through our kind of like planning, like, what if, okay,
well, what if when you turn it off, it turns it off for like, for everyone for you, you know what I mean?
Like, what we ultimately landed on, for those on the team who weren't, you know, interested in having it on,
we, when, when we were like, okay, actually, given that this isn't going to disrupt my experience, I'm still going to be able to like, glance at you, see what you're wearing and like,
Okay, you've got some scale you've never you know these these certain armor pieces. It's it's one of those things that we sort of
I'm gonna continue playing that this is the pull from the wow classic dot plus website
51% bad
28% good 17% I don't care and no opinion. I guess it's similar
So if you add in the I don't care and the good
good. Yeah, so they probably made the right choice here. Of course, this poll is not fully
representative, but still warmed up to it and decided, you know what, where we landed
hits the sweet spot and allows, gives us the agency to have it off if we want to. I also
like I like to collect things. So I may just collect appearances, but not use it anyway,
just because I like to collect things. And so giving people the options comes back to
that agency, right? We want to be able to give players the agency to choose the experience
they want. And you've definitely changed the game. You've made something. That's actually a fair point
that Nora just said. I don't want to do the whole appearances because I think it breaks part of the
fabric of the spirit of the game, right? Like transmog that is. If you have certain shoulders,
they should be those certain shoulders. Like I don't like the idea of transmog, but collecting is
kind of fun. So being able, I wonder if you have transmog off, if you still collect appearances as
has like a, you know, something to do,
you never actually use them,
but you're like a collector in that sense.
Like completionist content, exactly.
So like that actually is a good point that Noah wrote up.
You can do the completionist content.
You know that, that add-on Aspen Gold used to use,
it was like all the things,
you just collected things just for the sake of collecting them.
You guys remember that?
I think people might do this still in retail.
You literally don't even need the item,
and you don't actually care to use the item,
but you just get the item to say,
I got every item in the game.
So it could be something like that, you know?
All changes in other ways, like in the different areas,
there's things that some of the super hardcore,
while people were telling me about,
how did you land on what you change
and what you keep the same?
Like you changed the, like just some examples,
the animations, you have the option to have
a bit more standardized animations
versus the newer ones, and you have the option,
visually, to have classic visuals.
Very curious about that.
The animations are an interesting one.
I feel like the animations and the character models
actually came mostly from our understanding
of what the classic community was really interested in,
as well as what other audiences might be interested in.
Cause like we've also heard from players who were like,
I can't stomach playing a game, looking like that,
you know what I mean?
In either direction.
In either direction, yeah.
And so, but really like the more,
the better, more generic answer to give you about like kind of
how we've approached decision making in WoW forever,
it comes back to the design pillars
that Tim covered in the what's next panel.
That's part of why also we're using a lot
of the same words here too.
We talk about the journey a lot, right?
We talk about the world, the world is the main character,
the journey before the destination, right?
And so, when you have a team that like,
we're so passionate about the game
and we have differing opinions,
that could be a recipe for lots of arguments
if we didn't have a compass,
if we didn't have the relationships
that we trust and love each other
and we know that at the end of the day,
okay, we all want the same thing.
We wanna delight our players and build this incredible,
classic experience with so much more.
We're able to play it here today.
I'd be really curious to hear your theory about
what happens in two years from now.
How do you keep a game like this fresh?
Yeah, we talk about that a lot.
And we don't have a great interview announced today
as far as what's going to be happening beyond our roadmap.
But certainly, when we built Season of Discovery,
we found out where the lines were.
It was a big testing ground for us.
Wonderful experiment.
We pushed our class design really, really far,
arguably too far.
But yeah, we found the line.
And one of the other benefits from it
was it really taught us how to build a really strong roadmap
for the future.
And at least for the foreseeable future, our plan is,
we are staying on Azeroth.
I meant it when I said it,
that we are gonna be expanding horizontally.
And that means exploring the unfinished or unused zones
that the original development team
maybe simply never had the time to build,
or these different places that players have built up
in their minds about what Classic Plus means to them.
Now, staying on Azeroth and not going through the Dark Portal
or doing some more intergalactic or something like that,
doesn't just mean Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.
I mean, Azeroth is a big place.
There are other places that we could go,
but at least for now, for what we're committing to
for players, it's gonna be a lot of time
in Classic Azeroth and Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.
But there, oh, I just love this, man.
Like this was probably close to my number one thing
I wanted in Azeroth, or sorry, in Classic Plus.
was to stay in Azeroth, like almost number one.
Staying level 60 was up there.
Staying in Azeroth was really high on my list
because I don't want there, like I love TBC,
but I just don't want there to be,
let's go through the dark portal
and go to a completely different area
and leave Azeroth behind.
And now all the low levels are leveling
in a different zone and area
than where all the high levels are at.
As good as TBC is, that's fundamental,
like, a game flaw, right?
Like you have, you fragment your whole player base, right?
And Runescape, you, the high levels are running around
those same towns as the low levels.
And you need the player interaction to,
to have the low level see the high levels
and to see the high levels to see the low ones.
Because the high level, seeing the low level
might offer help or might just think to himself
or herself and think, oh wow, I remember being a,
you know, level six in Goldshire, like that's cool.
And the low level looks at the high ones like, oh, I want that armor or that mount.
Like you need that.
Right.
And once you take that away, it's, it's, it's bad.
It's really bad.
You fragment everyone's brutal, right?
So as, as, as cool as Outlands was, I'm so happy we're just, we're staying in Azeroth,
man.
Now he did say that Azeroth is a big place they can expand.
I hope that if they expand, it's not giant landmasses, so nothing like as big as Outland.
And if it's an island like a boat to it, to where you still have to like go to the boat,
and not too much utility on the island, it's not something that you should stay on for days
out of time.
It would be something you visit and leave no auction house there, maybe no mailbox even
there.
maybe there's reasons to visit, but not a place to just stay only there for forever.
It would be more like a place to go explore and then leave, but you would still need to
go back to Stormwind City.
You still need to go back to Orgammar, and then you still have the players crossing paths,
right?
So but it sounds like for a long time it's this Kalimdorn Eastern Kingdoms guys.
That was one of my biggest.
almost like almost my biggest want for this game. No flying level 60 cap staying on Azeroth.
I mean, those were really like top three in a sense, right?
So much room for us to play with. And you'll hear about this more in the found photographs
panel tomorrow or approach to storytelling and how we start from a place of canon and tell stories
that could have happened during that time period. We intend to stay in that vanilla time period
forever. How do you tackle that from a storytelling perspective because you know
you have writers at the time and I know you have people that are super like
intro to lore and everything like that. How do you strike the same tone you had
in that original? Because it was a little bit more I want to say this role or
there was a lot more conflict I would say in the original. How do you stay
within that idea? Well I mean it starts with having developers who are
incredibly passionate about the source material. Yeah. I mean incredibly. We have
you know, our quest designers are also the same people who write their own quest dialogue and are
able to write for all the different races that are in the game. And they love classic. And I mean,
I can't stress that enough. They love classics so much that they almost inherently or innately in
their day-to-day job know what classic feels like when it comes to storytelling. There's that. And
we also have a wonderful lore team that we work with. We work with Chris Metzen every day. He helped
helped us develop some of these new zones, the conceits around them, our new race.
So really, it's a lot of people who just love that source material and are able to
bring it in their day-to-day working life to make sure it stays authentic.
Like, dude, I already glazed the Classic team, but just to give you more perspective on
the glaze, Josh, I actually didn't know this.
He got his 15-year Blizzard ring recently, like a year or two ago, I think.
He's been at Blizzard for more than 15 years.
He's like an OG, Chris, I don't know his last name,
it starts with a Z, I think.
Chris, I think he's been at Blizzard even longer.
Like this guy's been around since the start,
this guy's just like a complete classic nerd,
like way more than me.
Just like, we have some good guys on this team.
No, not Chris Metzen, Chris with a K, K-R-I-S, not Metzen.
It starts with a Z, I think.
is a zeer hut, it might be a zeer hut, you know.
Chris is like at Blizzard for 21 years or something.
Oh yeah, it's ridiculous.
It's ridiculous.
And then of course there's Mets in two,
which same thing, right?
It's like, oh my gosh,
like some of these guys are absolute vets.
And there's newer people too, and that's fine.
But like, guys, we have a good teamwork on this
in that it's a good feeling.
It's a good feeling to be like, okay,
We have some people on the inside
that know what they're talking about,
versus a bunch of people that are like,
just kind of, you know, don't know much about Classic
or we're hired a year ago.
And there's nothing wrong about hiring new people,
but you know, it's nice having some OGs there
that can like be like, yeah,
now I've been playing the whole time.
I'm a Classic enjoyer, this is what we need to do.
You know what I mean?
It's pretty cool.
Actually, there's also a like a historians group
that like we can email, like there were a couple occasions
I like shut out an email that was like, oh, you know,
can you give me feedback on like these lower appropriate
like night elf naming conventions, right?
And like it's really cool to have like literally experts
at the company for like kind of what, what is the ethos?
What's the, the lore behind, you know,
these, these different character races,
these different zones, these different worlds
at different time periods, right?
Like there's, there's, there's so much, I think,
I mean, lore, right?
In world of Warcraft in general.
And so like, one of the boons that we have is that
if we're just kind of sticking with vanilla,
then we don't have to worry too much about like,
okay, well, in the future, where are we going from here?
Cause we're staying grounded and we're not like trying to do
any kind of grand, you know, oh my gosh,
this really big thing, like the divergent thing happened
that would be like super, like does not at all make sense
for like some future, you know what I mean?
Like it's really, we're really staying grounded in like,
You know what, what are the people who are living
in vanilla world of Warcraft?
Like what are they thinking?
What are they doing?
What are their opinions on what has happened around them
and to their family members and to their friends and-
Oh, I just love that answer so much, dude.
Oh, it's so good, it's so good.
It's, I think it's so rich for content that like,
like Clay mentioned, you know,
we want to stay in vanilla vanilla forever
and it's one of those-
I feel like all these modern MMOs feel like the opposite
of what Nora just said.
I feel like that modern MMOs, it's like every quest
has to be this like absolute world shattering experience
of like, oh my gosh, this is so epic.
Like you gotta save the world, this and that.
And like, it's like, no, it's like we're living in Azeroth
back in the OG days.
Like what's that, what's going on here?
You know, you know, like that's already,
that's such a good setting.
It's like one of the best settings you could ever ask for.
You don't need this, go beyond that.
We don't need to like make it into anything more.
That's already sick, you know?
Things that like, there's so much there.
I think that's going to be pretty accessible to us.
Yeah, what is, in terms of all the response,
have you even had a chance to look online?
Have you seen the response to it?
I've pulled up like, you know, forums, Twitter, Reddit,
stuff like that, like just occasionally
and glancing at it on occasion,
but like that's, we do that routinely anyways.
It's not even just a like,
blizzcon date announcement type thing.
It's, you know, our team routinely looks at a variety of like, what are the players saying online and, you know, I applaud that because routinely reading Twitter and Reddit is a lifestyle choice.
Okay.
It is, it is, it is not it.
I mean, that is a choice.
So good on you.
Good on you.
Even in person we'd like we get we get folks contacting us. We get you know, we see YouTube videos, right?
I usually I usually watch creator videos on my my lunch breaks
Just to kind of like stay up with what what players are asking for expecting, you know
And what's the response been like? What have you seen?
Honestly, I'm really excited. I think folks are really delighted like there's all sorts of opinions out there, right?
like some culture kind of just like, you know, they're like some
simple because I one of the popular things I'm seeing are
like, why blue elves and like, we've got great answers for that,
but I'm not like going on Reddit and like, well, here's what
you know what I mean? It's it's those are the things that come
through in the interviews. Well, here's why you should do this.
Things that come through the panels, especially. And I like,
again, want to plug the found photographs panel that clay
mentioned, that goes way deeper into the story and more.
And it's one of those things that like as long as we keep a pulse on the community, we collaborate with them and we stay open to pivoting based on kind of what we agree with the community is the right approach, right?
I feel very confident that we're going to absolutely delight our players with Well Forever.
How about you? Have you got a chance to see the reaction?
Oh, barely.
I've been in interviews all day.
I am so excited to, you know, once the day is done, actually spend a little bit of time
listening to the community response to it and everything.
Bro, when I was at the event, I had the same answer as Clay. I was like,
I didn't know what people were saying because I was just live all day trying to get to all the
panels, the AWC meet and greet. I literally didn't even look at my phone until I got to the airport
on Monday, and I had a lot of time at the airport
because my flight was delayed twice,
and then we were on the airplane,
and then we ran out of fuel mid-ride,
and we had to go back to another airport
and sit there for another two hours
because our plane ran out of fuel,
we had to refuel, and there was technical problems,
and we had to fix the airplane,
but we had to wait for the mechanic to get there,
and the mechanic needed a senior mechanic,
so we needed that guy to get there,
and then they fixed the airplane,
and we went back, and then we had to wait for weather.
Anyway, that's not the point.
The point is that a lot of time
to look at what the internet was saying.
And there was a lot of, a lot of,
like I would say the overall thing on the internet
is that people are hype.
Like people are very excited
and they got the big things right.
But I would say the biggest things
that I saw with complaints were number one, the Skyborne,
I would say is the biggest complaint out there,
which I've already talked to you guys,
like I actually don't hate Skyborne.
I think it was a missed opportunity just to do high elves
and like a first taken high elf
or like something even cooler.
I'm not a big Ogre fan, sorry guys.
But like I think, I don't hate them, I don't love them,
but people are pretty upset about Skyborne.
And then two is the UI.
And I do care about the UI.
I understand where that hate's coming from.
In fact, I don't like it.
I'm gonna have to download it out on.
That's probably my biggest complaint myself is I don't,
I don't know why the unit frames of retail,
the nameplates retail, I don't get it, man.
I don't like it.
I would love a toggle to go to the classic UI personally.
That would be amazing.
But yeah, that's my biggest personal complaint.
I've said that a few times.
Anyway, between Skyborne and the UI,
those are like the two biggest negatives I've seen, I think.
Let me think of a third.
Those are the big two.
What's the big, is there a third?
People are saying arenas, but I think that's actually just a loud, I actually haven't seen
that that too much.
I think there's the people that love arenas want arenas, but I think by and large, is
there a third?
The mega servers, people seem to like that overall.
I think those are like the big two.
I think it's the UI and Skyborne, right?
A lot of the other stuff you guys are saying, like there's people on both sides, but I feel
like, I feel like a lot of people don't like Skyborne, a lot of people don't like the UI.
I think those are like the big two.
Oh, another good one is the server ticks.
I agree with that.
I actually care about that myself.
Server ticks.
I actually did a notepad of what I don't like.
The retail UI, the ticks.
I didn't like the barber and I think some of the legacy system
talent points are two OP, but yeah, the server ticks.
So let's go with those three.
Skyborne server ticks and UI.
Those are three very valid criticisms
from the community, I think, for sure.
Can you explain server ticks?
I don't get it.
Okay, so on retail, when you regenerate energy,
it's like this.
And then you use energy and then you reach in like this.
On classic, wow, it goes like this.
Okay, same with mana.
Every five seconds of mana on classic, wow, it goes.
On retail, Manage is steady, server ticks.
You are not getting that.
Oh, they need to add that.
That's like, that's very important.
I think for sure they need that tick.
The tick system is amazing.
Yeah.
I said, it's a big deal.
Why is it good?
It is part of how you play Classic WoW.
So say you're a rogue and you open up with Ambush, a newbie rogue will open up with Ambush.
A good rogue will think, okay, when is the next server tick?
I'm going to open up with Ambush right before the server tick, so right as I use 60 energy
to Ambush, I'm going to get more energy back and a big leap.
So you can think ahead of when you're getting these ticks.
Same with mana.
You can time your evo-k as a mage with a server tick of mana so you get more mana out of your
evo-k quicker, right?
It's a skill gap thing.
It's very fun.
It's very cool.
Same with drinking.
and water on the server ticks.
It's a really cool thing, very, very cool thing.
Certainly being there in the room here at BlizzCon
and just being a part of the passion
and the community and stuff.
I mean, it was incredible.
Even just getting the name out there
and having the cinematic be shown was, oh my gosh,
it's in-
Okay, a lot of people complained about the name as well.
I don't really like the name forever either, to be honest,
but names are hard.
I don't really have a name that I like better either.
Like classic plus is my favorite name,
but that's not really a name.
And like classic infinite and classic eternal
and like classic, like I don't know,
like maybe I like him a little like about the same.
Classic eternal, like I don't know.
There's no name that I just like love.
Why not just call it world of Warcraft?
I think from a marketing standpoint,
If you just say, oh, I'm going to go play World of Warcraft,
or we're releasing a new product called World of Warcraft,
it's already been done.
Can't really do that.
Camelot?
No, I don't think it could have ever been Camelot.
It needs to have WoW.
It could have been World of Warcraft, Camelot, maybe.
I don't know.
Anyway, I don't like the name forever that much,
but it's also just a name.
It doesn't matter, right?
And I don't really know of anything
I like that much better, so it's kind of whatever.
It's indescribable.
I'm just so happy it's out there now,
and you weren't able to talk about it.
So yeah, I'm excited to see what the response is.
I would say, you know, as we mentioned before,
you ask 50 different players,
you're gonna get over 50 different answers
for what's supposed to mean to them.
And as Nora mentioned, we're building this with the community.
And we've shown as a classic team,
especially with Supply Night Season Discovery,
we are very responsive to player feedback
and very quick to pivot when we need to
with the smart right changes.
And so yeah, we just look forward to continuing
to build this with them.
And for anybody who may be skeptical,
we want them to jump in the beta.
It starts on Thursday and launches not that long after,
and we're excited to take this journey with them.
I've seen a lot of shock, actually,
because I was even talking to players at the charity,
the BlizzCon charity dinner last night.
And one of them was like, oh, it would
be cool to just see some class changes, maybe a couple
of dungeons, and perhaps a raid.
I know it's asking for a lot.
And then I was like sipping my drink like,
oh, you have no idea what's coming, right?
And like checking it.
I love the little voices.
Ha ha ha, Nora W.
Oh my gosh.
Like checking socials today,
just sporadically in between,
frenetically in between the interviews.
I got to see a lot of like shock and awe of people being like,
holy smokes, is this real?
Like holy smoke, I'm delighted.
I wonder what they're gonna, where they're gonna take this.
You know, it's incredible to see.
How does she know how you guys sound too?
That's like the craziest part.
It's like, huh, weird.
Yeah, to me, it seems super positive online.
Yeah.
I would say that I think I have to imagine
that the size and the scale of what we are building
is probably a lot bigger than what Claire's expected.
Oh, really?
When Nora went on stage, she announced literally
nine new dungeons, two new raids.
I mean, most of the time, leading up to.
It's bigger than I expected.
And I knew a lot of what was coming.
So that's saying something like nine.
It's like, all right.
To this within, let's say a few weeks ago,
before the hype really started building.
I mean, the expectation was,
oh, they'll start from vanilla
and they'll add a couple of things.
And that's basically it, and they'll go from there.
I had a player walk up to me after the,
what's next?
Nine dungeons guys.
And they were like, you know,
I thought there'd be a few dungeons,
but then you just kept talking
and you just kept listing off dungeon names.
It was like, yeah.
Wait, do you guys actually think it's too many?
Do you guys think it's too much content?
Like maybe they should have released four or five,
saved the other ones for later patches.
No?
Dude, it is so much content we're getting.
A thousand new quests, 600 new,
what was it, prof items or something?
Nine new dungeons, I mean, that is so much content.
That is insane.
Holy crap, my steak is too juicy.
I mean, you don't want your steak too rare.
If it's like bleeding all over the place, you know,
you want like, I like my steaks about medium.
I actually liked, I used to like medium rare.
I don't know what happened.
I was like, I would actually like a little more cooked.
So I were medium these days.
But I actually went to dinner with my YouTube editor
and he got a steak and he ordered it rare.
Nikki, if you're watching this,
like I don't know how you ate that thing,
but it was just, it was still, it was cold in the middle.
Like it was straight, like rare.
Yeah, and he enjoyed it though.
It's like, all right, man, if that's what you wanna do,
you can eat your steak rare.
I'm gonna get mine cooked.
But whatever, and anyway, that's not the point.
Point is that's a lot of content, man.
You know, our team is small,
but our ambition is mighty
that just from your script from the last day,
so I stole that.
The passion that our team has
to deliver incredible things,
I think knows no bounds, honestly.
And I can be prouder of what the team has delivered,
given just how much stuff we've put in forever.
Like we have, the what's next did not cover
everything that's coming in forever.
And we had lots of chats and discussions internally about,
what can we fit, what can we pack in this 45 minute panel?
Well, let me ask you really quick.
Have the rumors were going around
that wow, classic plus, I think.
Yeah, someone in the chat said it right.
If you say medium, they bring you medium rare.
So I think that's what it is.
Every time I order a steak medium,
it comes out medium rare.
But I do medium rare, they always serve me rare steak.
I'm like, I don't want a rare steak.
I want a medium rare steak, so I'm gonna order medium.
That's what I figured out.
That's actually what I figured out.
So that's why I order medium at a restaurant.
Because it comes out medium rare anyways.
All right, that's fine then.
So that's the tech.
That's what it was being called.
And what did people get close on
that maybe didn't quite make the cut
or that you kind of like the sound of?
Anything?
Ring the bell?
That's good question.
So things that we haven't announced yet
that players got close to predicting.
Yeah.
Well, we haven't announced it yet.
Well, no, no, let me rephrase it.
So like before the big announcement,
people had theories about what it would be.
Sure.
Were any of them like comical to you
or stuff that you discussed internally?
I mean, there was stuff.
Guys, this was tough being on my side of the stage.
All right?
Actually, I was in a tough position, all right?
They told us stuff.
So obviously I knew, and then people are like,
what do you think of this?
And I'm just like, I'm thinking in my head like,
this guy is so far off, but like, I can't even,
I just, this guy is completely wrong.
Like, what?
Like, oh my gosh.
Like, I don't actually want to name any names,
but some people were very wrong and very confidently wrong.
Like there were some people that were like,
this is what's happening.
And I'm just thinking like, you are so confidently wrong
and it's insane how confidently wrong you are.
Like what?
Oh my gosh.
Oscar worthy performance.
Guys, it is not Oscar.
Couldn't actually,
couldn't actually like say anything.
So I had to just like sit there,
but there we go.
Here we go.
Where, especially in the last few weeks,
as the speculation and the hype had been mounting,
I mean, all that players really knew
was that we were announcing something today.
Yeah.
And there were maybe a couple words
that made their way out on the internet
that players have speculated around,
but that was enough, particularly in the last,
say week, where all of a sudden,
speculation just ran rampant.
And it was everything from,
Oh, this Classic Plus is going to be a mobile game.
Oh, it's going to be set.
It's a prequel.
It's going to be set 10,000 years ago,
but I don't know, a whole new storyline.
I mean, you name it.
But that original vision that all players share of Classic
Plus is, it is vanilla, but it doesn't go to the dark portal.
And that is what we delivered.
And so if there's one thing that I
feel like we've absolutely delivered on
is that vanilla feel with the vanilla game
play in that vanilla world that will continue forever,
or at least as long as players want us to continue it.
Awesome.
Yeah, it's, I have to say, like a lot of the,
there was often like the like,
they're going to do new dungeons and it's like,
and I started going, ooh,
and then they would be like, it's going to be mobile.
And then I'm like, that is so far off.
Like the things that were wrong were like so far wrong.
Yeah, like a huge like that left her.
And so like, yeah, it's hard to think of
what even was close other than, you know,
like a lot of players correctly predicted
we were going to do something with Hygel, right?
Yeah, true.
So no, don't you guys have phone lines this time?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, anyway, thank you so much.
Yeah, thank you.
I am so excited about this version of the game.
It's cool for somebody like me who feels like, you know,
I go into classic late, I miss the original late,
but I'm ready for this one.
So I think a lot of people are like me who feel that way.
So amazing.
Yeah, I think like it's hard to get a judge of the landscape
of things when you go on the internet sometimes because the vocal minority is very, very loud.
So what I did is, you know, I have some friends, believe it or not, couple, and I actually
texted them, you know, some friends that play classic while and I was like, so what did
you think of the announcement?
You know, and I was like, what did you, what did you not like?
Like what did you not like and what did you like?
And by and large, from the people that I asked, like the big thing was like, well, they're
giving us what we want by and large, but there's, you know, some things and I think the big
one was the UI.
I think, I think the UI is actually the number one thing that I've heard people complain
about.
Maybe even more than Skyborne, probably even more than Skyborne UI, Skyborne and the ticks.
But I'd say the UI is probably number one.
You know, the UI of being more retail looking is tough.
It's tough, very tough, very tough.
But besides those, I think by and large,
they deliver the classic plus concept.
Like a lot of the stuff we want, it's like, all right, yeah,
totally.
Put it to try it out in the near future,
and thank you for the interview.
Absolutely, thank you.
Thank you.
Awesome questions, too.
All right, thanks for watching, everybody.
Hit that subscribe button.
Yeah, I've got to give this guy a shout out, Destin.
That was a really good interview for someone who doesn't play well.
That was well done.
He doesn't even like play well.
That was nice.
Good questions if you don't play the game.
So solid.
Well, to know my content goes live,
thank you so very much for hanging out.
Thank you to the members.
Chris Reddy, Phil Roni, Shane Carroll,
Cherubby, Jason Marcus, Harkeet, Emma, Michael, Brent,
and Roberto.
I really appreciate your support.
I am gonna get out of here.
Very, very, very, very solid.
I'll link the video, sure.
It's on Destin's YouTube, here's the link right here.
You have to watch the payout video, yeah, I saw it.
I don't care about the UI.
Actually, let me do a quick poll.
The modern UI.
Yes, I care.
Nah, don't care.
I'm gonna do a quick poll.
Like, do you care about this?
Is this a big deal to you?
Yes, I care, big deal.
No, I don't care at all.
Like, I'm gonna do a quick poll.
I already kind of biased you guys in a sense
because like, I care.
But just give me your honest opinion, you know?
Give me your honest opinion.
I'll do a poll over on YouTube as well.
Modern UI.
Yes, I care, big deal.
No, I don't care at all.
Wow. Okay. So everybody keep voting. Let's get, let's get a larger sample size here.
From what I can see so far, there's actually a, you know, it's pretty, you know, pretty
close, but there's a lot of people that just don't care. There's a lot of people that just
don't care that much. But you know, of course, there's a lot of people to do. For me, it's
a big deal. It's like a massive deal. I'll download it and add on and it'll be fine,
but it is a big deal. It's first impressions. It's like how the game looks and feels, but
I'm actually surprised it's that low, so maybe it's fine. Maybe I'm more of a minority here.
Let me pull SkyBorn. Sure, let's do that. Let me end this pull. End pull. New pull.
SkyBorn the way they are. I'll just put SkyBorn. What should I do? I like them. I hate them
or I don't really care that much. They're all right. Like, like, hate indifferent. Yeah,
should do that. Sky born. I like them.
Like them, hate them in different.
Okay, I'm going to do that poll now. I'm actually really curious on this one as
well. So everybody vote up. I'll do that same pull over on YouTube.
Skyborne, like it, hate it, don't care.
So this is the data, everyone keep voting.
13% like it, 24% hate it, 63% indifferent.
I'm indifferent.
I actually don't hate them.
Is it my preference for a race if I were in charge?
No, but I don't hate it.
So based on this data, which is a very small sample size,
very small sample size, what you read on the internet
is that this is the worst thing ever.
Blizzard completely screwed up the game's dead,
but the reality is like most people don't care, right?
The silent majority of like, I don't care is the reality.
But what you read online does not make it feel that way.
Makes you feel like this was the biggest L ever.
Because the vocal minority is so loud, right?
Obviously, it's OK if you hate them, right?
That's a valid take, by the way.
Very valid take.
But it is a minority take, which is interesting.
2K is a big enough sample size for sure.
Yeah, I mean, it's an OK sample.
But obviously, it's not fully inclusive.
YouTube poll was very similar as well.
Okay, and then I want to do a third poll
on the third biggest thing to,
I think most of us is the TIC system.
Server TICs for mana, energy, et cetera.
What should I say?
Like this needs to be in,
I like it better modernized.
Like so, modern, which is like a steady tick
or don't care either way.
Okay, so I'm gonna start that poll now.
I'll do that same poll on YouTube as well.
Whoa. This is actually way different than I thought. The amount of people saying I like
it better modern is surprising. That's crazy to me. Modern is like, I think like way not
plastic like that's pretty bad. Wow, I can't believe it's that close. Good to think about.
I mean, for me, ticks need to be in like it's not even a discussion like they're a big
deal but hey I guess for you guys it's not as big of a deal. This is why voting
needs to be in the game. If voting was in the game the precedent are that ticks
are in. So the way voting would work if it was in the game is if you wanted it
modern 70% or higher would need to like it better modern. 27% like it better
modern. So it would be nowhere close to passing a poll, nowhere close to passing a poll. It
would be like, it would be like not even up for discussion. Right. That because that's
the way polling works is you respect precedent first. So since it's that way already, it's
It's like, okay, so it'll stay that way.
You could say the same thing about putting ticks
in since modern is in now.
I don't know what you mean by that.
Okay.
Yeah, a lot of people are saying explain ticks.
We don't even get them.
Crap, I just explained them a second ago.
I feel like my explanation wasn't very good,
but essentially in classic WoW,
when you regenerate energy, you have zero energy.
When you regenerate energy, it goes,
kind of like that.
Whereas in retail, it's just smooth.
It goes, regenerates at a constant rate versus a tick.
Same with mana, same with energy.
Same with health ticks, I believe.
That's what I mean by ticks.
Explain why you think they're good.
Okay, so why is it better?
Uh, so, and I guess this is maybe a PvP or take, but in PvP, they're everything.
They're the whole foundation of PvP and classic, right?
When a rogue is stealthing in or a druid is stealthing in, you want to open up with
ambush right on the server tick so you ambush and get energy back or a noob wouldn't know
about that and not utilize the server ticks to their advantage, right?
It's the whole, it's, you don't have many spells, but the server ticks give you the
skill expression with mages when you evocate matters.
You notice evo, it's, I'm going to evo on the server tick.
When you drink matters, I'm not just going to drink, I'm going to drink on the server
tick.
I'm going to eat on the server tick.
I'm going to move on the server tick.
So it gets not quite the same as a runescape or an even bigger deal, but it's a big deal
for wild PvP. So taking that out removes a lot of like classic PvP at a high level at
least. So it's a big deal. It's a very big deal for like classic PvP. Very big deal.
And PvE doesn't matter like that much. Maybe slightly if you're a parser, but like maybe
not toggle the tick. No, it needs to be on for everyone. You can't have it on for some
all for others. Repull it now that people know what it is and whatever.
Pull arenas or 1v1 dual raiders? I don't know if that's like a false dichotomy, right? It's not
like arenas or 1v1s, it could be both. Like I could pull them individually. I think a lot of people
People would like a Brawlers Guild where you could go somewhere and watch people duke it out.
That would be sick.
I think a lot of people would also like Arena.
Need Arena in a poll?
I can.
I think we've done most of the...
Actually, I think I've done all of these before.
Actually, we have done all of these before, but we can do them again.
Yes, add arenas, no open world stuff.
I guess that's like, you could technically add arenas
and open world stuff, but the way I think about it is like,
if you're gonna add in PVP features,
should they be like instanced
in like a rated battleground in an arena,
or should you be promoting getting people out
in the open world?
And like for me, I guess it's not in either or.
You could out arenas and open world stuff.
The problem is this, you have a PVP player base
that's a finite amount of people.
And if you have too many options
for a finite amount of people,
you're gonna have some people play arena
and some people play open world and both might feel dead.
So more isn't always better in the sense of like,
well, just do it all, isn't always the answer.
Because then you're segmenting a partition
of the player base already.
So instead it's like, well, no,
let's funnel all of our players into open world
or should we funnel all of our players into arena?
But once you start mixing,
it's like the player base isn't large enough
to support both.
So I think that's the in-depth answer to my take.
Anyway, I'll just put yes at arenas
or no focus on open world stuff.
Which is a little bit of a bias question, I suppose, but.
Oh, what the heck?
I actually can't believe this poll.
Like I said, the poll, it was a little bit of a, it's a bias question.
Like if I just said yes or no, it probably would have been more 50-50, but I definitely
very, very biased question.
Maybe I've worded it wrong, but like, but that is the way I think about it, right?
That is the way I think about it.
Like you, you, you have a subset of the community that's like PvP enjoyers, and it's like, do
you want to funnel them into an arena all day, or do you want to funnel them out in Black
Rock Depths, Stringlethorne Vale?
There's a subset of the players who are going to go and do this.
Like, for my take is, get them out in the world, man.
Go get them fighting.
Go get them dueling.
Add a brawler skill.
Add reasons to fight.
So yeah, I mean, I biased you guys.
This isn't, yeah.
I agree that this is an echo chamber of opinions, I suppose.
But I didn't think it would be that one-sided.
I definitely biased you guys on this, though.
I will admit that.
Because I do think a lot of people
want arena except I respectfully disagree with them of course we got a
$5 donor from lucky says sorry would be great to know based on the results we
just got the polls here are is it retail or classic players oh you want to do a
poll okay sure let's yeah yeah let's let's do a poll on if you play retail or
classic mainly what do you mainly play retail or classic I'll add a third one
I'm like fairly equal of both.
Like, okay, look, more retail, like you know,
like if you play more retail or more classic,
just vote that.
If you're really someone who almost splits their time
down the middle, I'll have that third option.
But, you know, more retail or more classic.
I'll do that poll right now.
And I'll do it on YouTube as well.
Yeah, that's about that's not super surprising mainly classic or both but there is some retail
Andes in here too, which by the way retail Andes welcome in retail Andes out there.
Be honest.
Are you guys going to give forever a chance?
Retail Andes only.
Are you guys given forever a chance here?
Yeah.
And that's why that's why it's like might as well might as well try it dude
That the big thing that retail players might not like is this
if you're a retail player and you love retail for the complexity of the rotations and
You play mainly because you like how complex the classes are and like movement and like like this is what max and choice
This is what mythic plusters and choice is what top-level Raiders enjoy right very complex rotations abilities movement
You're probably you're probably not gonna like forever. It's just not for you
You know what? I mean, and there's nothing wrong with liking those things. Those things are very I mean that was that that's the type of player
I was for forever so no pun intended
As a PvP enjoyer with no arenas are we supposed to just spam battlegrounds forever that sucks
So they're going to talk more
Actually hold on
I'm sending a quick DM here.
Okay, I'm sending a quick DM.
I'm just gonna put that question on hold real quick, see what's going on, but I think the
idea is, okay, what we've seen in the slides, goodness gracious, this is, guys, why am I...
What we've read in the slides at BlizzCon is essentially that there's going to be seasonal
PVP.
Yeah, you did so good for months.
Bro, I tried my best.
This is a position that's not fun to be in.
At least for everyone at Blizzard, they can't talk about it, but they're not in front of
camera all day. Like it was it was brutal. It was brutal. We got a super chat. One second
for that super chat. I think I think there'll be reasons to play PVP, but it won't be I'm gonna
sit there and grind out RPGs or spam Q arenas for hours on end to grind a rating attached to it.
It's more gonna be, I'm gonna have reasons to play PvP that are in line with classic reasons to PvP,
like World PvP, like Battlegrounds, but reasons to engage in PvP in a classic way.
Not, I'm trying to get my rating up because this is a competitive rating based game.
I don't think they want Forever to be sweaty. I don't think they want any type of rating
Added to forever. I don't think they want to add mythic plus. I don't think they want ratings and arena
I don't think they want ratings and rbgs. They want to stay away from this this modern
MMO design of
Let me try to get my my rating up and and become a top player
They want this experience of this is a casual game that we're going to play with our friends and enjoy the journey and explore the world
It's a very different philosophy
If a lot of people will love that and a lot of people will hate that and I think but them sticking to that is I think good
You know it's like okay
Well, we can't make everyone happy here if you want to grind mythic plus and you want to grind arenas then you have an option
For that actually to you have TBC you have mop you've read you have many options for that, but that's not this game, right?
Rank 14 is going to be based on level of effort. Yes, yep, that's right. So basically the way it works is in classic WoW.
Anyway, we've covered this like three times today, but the way it works is in classic WoW, you're rewarded for, for like time spent, essentially, like that's classic WoW in a nutshell.
If you prepare, you'll do well.
If you don't prepare, you won't do well.
If you get your prep checklist done, you'll probably do pretty well.
The complexity isn't in the rotations, isn't in, you know, this and that.
It's all about preparation.
So I would assume that the PVP would be the same as it always sounds, but with classic.
You should read the MMORPG, aggrand interview.
I would love to do that.
I don't know if I have the link.
We got a state seller super chat from Mario saying,
I'm playing Beastmaster in retail.
I hope classic rotations are equally challenging.
If you're a retail player
and you want classic rotations
to be equally challenging to retail,
you probably have some bad expectations.
It's not gonna be that.
Probably stick to retail.
And there's nothing wrong with that, right?
If you're already enjoying it, just keep doing it.
You know, nothing wrong with it.
I got a $5 donor from Bearmicez.
Hey, Sark, can you pull server preference,
PvE, PvP, RP, and Hardcore?
How about you just type?
What are you guys gonna play?
PvE, PvP, RP, or Hardcore?
I'm going with PvP, by the way.
A lot of PvP.
Oh, it was a joke because BM hunters
don't have any buttons to press on retail.
Oh!
Ha ha ha.
True.
True.
We got a super chat from Snored.
And he says, do you think wrath anniversary is still
happening?
I don't know.
Authentically.
Like, don't know.
I asked Blizzard yesterday or two days ago, I guess,
before I left.
And I said, so guys, we didn't hear anything
about TBC, wrath, mob, nothing.
And they said they didn't have time to say anything.
And that we'll find out soon.
So that's what I know.
I actually don't know.
I am so darn curious.
I don't know the right answer either, by the way.
Because going to Wrath, I feel like, is free money for them.
But with this product out, it also feels weirdly like,
like, why?
I don't know.
Actually, let me ask you guys.
For people that are classic TBC enjoyers,
and you're excited for Wrath, but now forever got announced,
what do you guys think?
Like, everyone's going to be playing forever.
and then Wrath comes out.
Like, would you drop forever to go play Wrath?
Forever, forever, forever.
Like, this is, this is so, like, I'm so curious.
Because Wrath is goaded, let's be honest.
But we've already played it.
A lot of us have at least.
And forever is just an ounce.
Like, is going to Wrath even like,
part of the equation right now?
That's why with the timing,
I almost would have just liked them to go TBC into Wrath
and then drop forever after.
Because now it's just so awkward.
Because Wrath owns, maybe you just don't do Wrath, I don't know, it's so good though.
Okay, we got a $5 tip from Locary, he says, forever is giving me the chance to play with
my coworker who's a tank for a mythic raiding guild that competes against other Kielton
leaderboards.
I applaud the fact that WoW is bringing both parties together again, yeah, this is a really
good point.
retail. One of the problems retail has is if you're a really good player it's kind of hard to
play with your friend that's a noob. Like I actually have some friends that are not very good. I'm
not going to name their names but they suck and it's tough to play retail with them because they're
so bad that I can't like even carry them. That's how bad they are. No, I'm not not going to say
their name. He does play Rogue, yeah. He's a streamer. But I will not... Anyway, the point is,
with forever, if you have a friend, the skill gap should never be so big that you can't play
together. It's like, yeah, you can play together. It should never be so hard that you can't just
play with some friends. That's what I love about Classic WoW. Like, of course, if you're playing
hardcore and Axe Ramus, that's different, right? But like, by and large, if you want to raid in
classic you can. And yeah, I think they should stick to that. So anyway, enjoy playing with your
co-worker. I got a super chat from David saying, anything added should motivate players to go out
in the world and enable player interaction. I agree. Example, no arena, but player organized
arenas and dueling events. I agree. That's my whole take. Exactly right. We got another super chat
from a different David. He said, do you agree that they should add end game content to existing zones
like pushing 60s to go to North Shire similar.
Yeah, like generally, yeah, yeah, I like that.
Matt with the super chat says,
I'm horizontal progression,
I think legacy systems is good enough for ults,
but any insights into philosophy of end game progression?
End game progression, I don't think needs to be overthinked.
I don't think you need to start saying to yourself,
okay, we need harder raids like mythic difficulty
or heroic difficulty.
I don't think you need to say,
okay, we need something that scales infinitely
like Mythic Plus. I don't think that's the case. I don't think Classic WoW needs to be
focused completely on endgame. You can have a raid, you can have new raids, and then you
can horizontally progress to even more raids. That's fine. The majority of people that play
are going for that journey, they're going to level an alt with a friend, and they're
going to have a really nice time out in the world. And when you're max level, you can
raid log and enjoy that. You can PvP and enjoy that, or you can horizontally progress to
enjoy new raids, but it doesn't need to be this. Oh, our end game needs to be like retail
and be hyper competitive and something that scales infinitely. Cause if I don't have something
to do for 14 hours today, thanks, babe, then I won't be able to ever play the game again
because like I need something to fill like my entire void. It's like, well, how about
you go touch some grass or level and all. Like it doesn't need to have this end game
that never ends.
That's the point.
That's nice.
David of the Superchecks says, I just wanted a Superchecks.
I'm also a David.
You have three different Davids left in.
We had a $5 donation from Vincent.
He said, I spotted you on Friday at BlizzCon.
Instead of doing the normal thing by shaking your hand
and saying hi, I just walked past and stared at you,
like a creep.
Just wanted to say you're one of the best streamers out there
and even better human love the content.
Yeah, no, I saw you Vincent.
I know exactly who you were.
I know exactly.
Yeah, you were staring pretty hard.
It was, I looked at you for a second and I was like,
okay, this guy, anyway, no, don't worry about it, man.
We can basically pretend we met
I know exactly who you are. So nice, nice meeting you. And thanks to the five men.
Did I meet she bae? I'm at everyone. Yeah, I'm at every single person.
Except grace for days. He's the one I didn't see.
Grace for days is the one person.
You guys want to know how organized I am?
I made a list of people I wanted to say hi to.
It wasn't a complete list,
but I have my own Discord server and I made a list.
Grace raised is the only one I didn't get on there.
And I put some exclamation points with G-Bay pops and frits for some reason
I guess I was real excited typing them something
Goosey top three now. There are no specific order
Stoops, I think he's on there somewhere, isn't he?
Yeah, he's right here. No pale pale didn't go
Why is Pika on there?
I just want to say hi to him for a second.
Esfand, Esfand on the list, I spent a lot of time with Esfand.
Soda, didn't want to see him not on the list.
Shroud, I actually met Shroud, but I didn't know he was going.
Annie, I knew I would see Annie, we were doing a panel together, and I knew I would see Espan
too.
There was like certain people that wanted to like, like ampy.
I was like, I need to, if I don't see ampy, I got to hunt him down.
Crazy was the only person on my list I didn't, I didn't get to see, but it's all good.
Yeah, so Max, he's on the list.
I'm just going to make a decision.
All right, here we go.
I saw a lot of artwork.
It looked like the characters were wearing heirloom gear.
know if they have heirloom deer. I would assume no. Now that forever is out there,
can you talk a little bit more about your meetup before it all kind of talks
about what you went, what you were on the loop on? We can't get into the
specifics, but we can say, yeah, we went to the campus. We had some hands-on time
of the game, checked it out. We talked to the devs, gave them some feedback. It was
the big things. It was cool in the sense that I felt flattered. They wanted our opinions
and talked to us. There was some things that like, but liked, but you know, and some things,
You know, they, you know, so, but yeah,
can't get into the specifics besides that.
Okay.
Did I meet weed elf?
I did, yeah.
Oh, someone said the ARC,
WoW's architecture for the UI is 12.1.5,
which means the add-on disarmament changes introduced
in midnight are active in forever.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Does that mean that there's no week horrors?
That's a test build, it's true, I like that.
That's, I don't know.
People have asked me, is there a WeCourse?
And I said, of course there is, yeah.
But now that you say that, yeah, maybe you're right.
We'll have to hear some confirmation.
That's interesting.
Okay, is there any other articles or videos
I haven't covered?
This was like the only video I saw from like a,
You know dev like a backstage. What was it dev interview? I suppose this was really good
People are linking this article and this article
What is that?
Okay, eight new tanks we just learned about World of Warcraft forever from its lead designers.
Oh, okay guys, we've got to read here.
Forever won't have any wacky, classroom combos such as shaman tanks and season of discovery
at lunch.
Wait a minute.
Didn't we theorycraft away for shamans to be tanked?
Hot tanks.
They said at launch.
Yeah, but it seems like shamans could maybe tank
if you do earth grasp with like guardian totems with like
6% extra dodge with like Rockbiter weapon for threat.
And then like Storm Strike and 10% stamina and gives a chance to parry enemy attacks
reducing all threat.
Oh, I guess you wouldn't want to reduce threat.
With Storm Strike, you get extra Storm Strikes for some more threat.
I guess you don't have any tank talents.
Like you have mitt through dodge, but that's not gonna be enough.
Like you could probably hold threat with rockbiter and urshock and storm strike, but I guess
you would maybe just die.
Read the parry talent, L. Gives a chance to parry enemy tax or losing all threat generated
by your attacks by 30 while rockbiter weapon is not active.
Oh, so yeah, once again, why would they put that there if shaman's gonna be tanks?
And increases all threat generated by 30%?
Yeah, okay, yeah.
So why would this be there
if there wasn't supposed to be a Shaman tank?
No taunts.
I mean, they have Stoneclaw, Urshok,
insane threat with Rockfighter.
They have the threat,
but they don't have the tankiness yet.
I think they might just die.
Add a taunt quest later.
Yeah, you could add a taunt quest
and then like you have to add some tankiness too.
Future Patch could do Shaman Tank.
Yeah, they're close.
Like you could basically almost get there.
By the way, I didn't like a lot of what they did in Sod.
One of my big points of contention
was Season of Discovery was Mage Healers,
Lock Tanks, Rogue Tanks.
Like I didn't like all that.
But one of the things I actually didn't mind
was Shaman Tanks.
Why?
Well, Shamans, like Pallies can tank and they're on Alliance.
And like Shamans are like the Horde equivalent.
Like you want more tanks, and it kind of makes sense.
They have a shield and they're a Shamans.
Like it kind of makes sense.
But now, I guess you can make a Pallie on Horde.
So it balances that out.
So you don't really need that in the equation.
So maybe it's fine.
I don't know if they added a Shaman tank,
so it wouldn't bother me at least, but.
Jones said that there's a lot of fun and exciting things in S.O.D. but even our design
choice we made in S.O.D. when we measure them against what our pillars are for a while forever,
they don't make sense in terms of the simplicity or the identity that we want for some of the
classes to have. Fair enough, yeah. He continues saying the team was starting from a baseline
of simplicity that's more adjacent to the classic aim than S.O.D. was. Fair enough,
great. That to me says no shaman tanks or at least not super viable ones. But Jones
added that the team wants to keep the conversation open with players. W. I actually like this
philosophy a lot the philosophy being let's keep the game very similar to what it was in classic well
But if enough people want something we can actually add it down the road
I mean this this was actually my preference in a sense is like just don't do too much
But be open to adding stuff, you know
Shaman tanks would be so good at these new talents. Yeah, seriously, Sardocco. I was actually thinking
of you from that shaman tank challenge. It looked pretty sick. Every rage year will have at least
10 person option and 120 person option. What do you guys think of 10 and 20 man raids? I love it.
I just love it, but I yeah, yeah, oh, I just love it
Okay, a lot of you like it. I might be biasing the heck out of you guys, but I just I know 40 is cool
But man, it's just nice to be able to get 10 in co
You know, I just love it
It costs more gold than before to train to write them out
Actually asked Jones and new thoughts a question with the sky where an elves being a paywall behind a $30 purchase
and whether or not we should expect more gameplay related content to be behind paywalls,
they declined to comment seeing their game designers and don't make monetization decisions.
Dang, yeah, which is fair enough, but Shones shared some comments briefly about wanting the effort players put into the game to matter
and added that they've made design adjustments to make sure that effort is still required to obtain things like your mount.
You still have to.
We've readjusted the Gold cost to not be on the mount itself,
but on that training so that we're not giving someone free training for a mount when they hit
level 40, right? People still have to if you see someone on a mount. It's reflected that they have
spent time and effort into the game. Oh, cool. So if you get the Skyborne mount or whatever,
the Heroic Edition mount or whatever, you're basically getting like 20 gold for free because
you see the training is going to be the 80 gold portion of it. So you're not really paying to,
I mean, you're paying to win for 20 gold.
Congrats.
You paid 50 bucks for 20 gold or something.
That's actually kind of cool.
I like that.
I like that.
We've already talked about this like a bunch.
So I don't need to mention it too more,
but Skyborne being pay walled behind a purchase
is really bad optics behind another way of saying
the game is $15 to play with a sub.
It's free to play with a sub or $15 a month.
There's no box price.
It's like the optics of Skyborne being paywalled is such a,
it's true, but it's also such a negative way of saying
there's no box price on this.
You know, it's worded really bad.
It's terribly worded, but it's true.
But like, so if you're a hater of like,
oh, I hate this paywall, it's like, well, dude,
that there's no box price.
We all thought there'd be a box price, including myself,
right?
No, the fact that there's no box price is crazy.
In fact, and I already said this,
if the box price was 30 bucks,
I think the community reception
would have been better than this.
The box price is 30 bucks.
People would have been like, oh, wow, it's not 60, cool.
But since it's free, no box price,
and there's a sky born under 30, it's like somehow worse.
It's like weird, very weird.
Anyway, anyway, I think we came out ahead
on that front, you still need to work to summon you.
Oh, so there's no summoning stones.
I'm up fine with this, I'm fine with this.
We think that one of these moments of downtime
are important for social opportunities
and people are going to talk.
It's one of those choices where you look at your pillars
and be like, we need to preserve that downtime.
I actually think that's actually pretty cool.
I like the idea of intentional pacing decisions like this.
We're going to intentionally make someone walk to a boat,
not port to the island.
We're going to intentionally make someone, you know,
someone we're not just going to like
get everyone in the group quickly, right?
I actually like this.
It's intentional, intentionally slowing the game down.
Not anymore than it was, but just as it was,
or about the same as it was.
Add-ons will still be restricted in a similar way
to how they are in retail.
Okay, so this is what we were just talking about.
This is fascinating.
Jones and Noothles didn't confirm specifics
on how add-ons would work,
but Noothles did say that the in-game
or in-game combat add-on disarmament
were the pro-programmatic, programmatic.
Don't know if I've said that word before,
still don't know how to say it.
The calculations done to automate
marking or communicating for players
were going to bring that over
so the players will not have access
to those kinds of computational add-ons.
So if this is the case,
weak auras won't exist,
but there'll be other add-ons similar to weak auras
that do about the same thing,
but they're a little more shanky
and a little more annoying to set up.
That's how it's working on retail right now.
Weak auras don't exist,
but a bunch of other add-ons that do the same thing
do exist, but they're way more sporadic and annoying.
Personally, if you can just work around it anyway,
is bring weak ores back, it's easier.
If you can remove them all like fair enough,
but if it's just gonna be this like weird,
oh, weak ores won't work,
but you can do a workaround that works,
it's like shanky, it's like, what's the point, man?
It's like, I don't know.
No one button rotation forever.
This one might have been obvious
for this feature won't be carrying over.
I, hopefully the rotations aren't complex enough
to need this.
Hopefully, the rotations are just three or four buttons, maybe five, maybe six, so it's
not like you're going to need something crazy, right?
Oh, here we go.
PvP will have a new progression system.
When you fight other players in battlegrounds and complete battlegrounds and complete PvP-related
content, you'll gain honor.
That honor will help you progress through a ranking system, and within a season or within
a patch cycle, you'll be able to get rank 14 within that patch cycle and there are awards.
Oh, cool, we can talk about it. Yeah. So that's, that's what I was hinting at earlier, cosmetic
rewards and as well as PvP armor that has stats on it that people will be able to obtain. We're
excited for people to jump into new battlegrounds like Darkspear Islands to supplement the original
vanilla battlegrounds that people will be able to jump into. I think we want the opportunity
for PvP players to feel rewarded and feel like there's real progression tracks. Okay. So essentially
what it is is either it's going to be titles, there's going to be patch cycles where you
play, you get to rank 14, you get all your cool gear, but then there's going to be a
reason to do it again and again and again and again instead of just hitting rank 14
once and being AFK for the rest of time. So there's that. I can't, yeah, so they didn't
talk about this at all at BlizzCon, but it's in this interview, so cool. No rating correct.
They want to stick to no rating and PVE, no mythic plus, no rating systems, period.
Which we talked about in depth 30 minutes ago, if you want to check out the VOD.
Which is intentional.
Okay, cool, there's that.
Foreverers have bold promised to players that a safe space to invest their time.
Yes!
Is there something about forever?
Okay, so
When you look at how people play classic versions of our game before there's always the afterthought of what happens to my characters
What am I investing all this time into when it comes to an end?
That's what seasonal or another expansion will come along the way the beauty of wow forever is that we have 60 cap
We're gonna continue to build content horizontally for players
We have things like the legacy system to encourage for all's we're gonna continue to build content for every aspect of the game
The forever is really a promise of this is a safe place to make a character where everything that you invest your time in will matter forever
That's the biggest possible W of the weekend right there right there is the biggest thing ever man. Oh my gosh. Oh
My gosh
There it is there it is there it is
Sick
Dench what no arena guys like I know there's a lot of back and forth about the arena thing I
I see it from both sides because I used to be the player where there was nothing I wanted to do in WoW
besides sit there in Q Arena all day because it was the best thing ever. That was my life for over 10 years, 15, close to 20.
Like that would be, bro, come on, like you're telling me, like are you kidding me? Yeah, that is literally what I did for 15 plus years, right?
if that's what you want, it's not in this game.
Like you go play TVC, you go play Rath,
you go play retail, like that's not a classic wow.
It never was, that's just not the offerings here.
So like, I don't know what else to say.
Like if you're that person, it sucks.
I know, because I was that guy.
If you're that person who only wants to sit there
and queue arena, it's not that game.
And it sucks, it sucks to say.
like, it's not for you, and it is what it is, you know, it's not for you.
They will add it a hundred percent, hey, maybe down the road, maybe down the road, you know,
they said they're going to listen to players if enough players want to, maybe they'll add it down the road, who knows.
But there is games like that, that's right, lots of games like that.
Okay, cool interview, very good interview, like lots of stuff we actually didn't know from the panels in this interview,
interview, so we will link that as well.
It doesn't suck to say it's kind of a relief.
Well, it's a relief if you don't care,
but it sucks if you're a PvP player.
Hey, Cidoo's in the chat.
Cidoo, bro, you were one of the people
I really wanted to see at BlizzCon that you couldn't make it
this year, which anyway, I missed you there a lot.
I missed you there at the condo.
It was a good time.
time. Okay, there's that. There is that. There is that. What else? Is there any other interviews?
There was someone linked this which I guess just Oh, here we go. BlizzCon 2026 interview
chatting with my forever's campsites where it's all prog and more with Blizzard. Okay.
Has anyone read this?
Is there a new info or is it just summing up?
Yeah, maybe this is good.
Yeah, I got to meet Pops, who's great.
There's some new info, same info.
Okay.
Pika roasting me into oblivion.
You know, I went out to dinner with Zahar afterwards, and he actually bought the meal,
meal because he said it was such a big weekend and he tried to invite his main YouTube editor
and okay hold on from peekaboo lost his voice this is how I sounded yesterday I sounded just
like that yesterday I could think I didn't stream yesterday because he was my voice is a little
better today but guys at the okay look at blizzcon peekaboo might have been doing some other stuff
to you. I don't know. That's not the point. That's not the point. The point is at BlizzCon,
there's really loud music everywhere. Okay. Very, very loud music everywhere, especially
in a Hilton, the Sheraton lobbies and at the con itself. So if you if you talk to anyone,
you have to be screaming for them to hear you. You have to raise your voice very loud
for them to hear you.
Okay?
And so everyone's yelling for the whole weekend.
And anyway, everyone that went to,
oh yeah, if you've gone to concerts,
it's probably the same thing.
I actually haven't really been to concerts,
but it's probably a very common thing in concerts.
Anyway, everyone that went to Blue Scone sounds like this.
If you were yelling all the time.
His short editor, he invited his short editor to dinner
and he said, no, he doesn't wanna go.
Oh my god guys Zars main shorts editor is Taylor in the chat
Taylor's day that's him and his first response like no, I'm not gonna get a dinner and then he's like
Yeah, I came to BlizzCon and I've just been kind of like hanging out around because I didn't say anything to you
I didn't say anything to Zars because I just like I don't know
I don't like bother you guys and then you know
I saw a bunch of other people, but I didn't like say anything
because I don't want to bother them.
And I'm thinking like, what is this guy talking about?
Like, what do you mean?
You've been here at PlissCon the whole time.
Oh my God.
Yeah, Taylor, Taylor's like that kind of guy.
He's like too nice.
You know, we didn't want to bother Pico and I
to the point where I was like, hey,
do you want to grab dinner?
And he's like, like with Pico and I.
And he's like, he's like, well, I don't know.
to meet like, like, no, like, I might just head back.
And I was like, Taylor, like, we're getting dinner, man.
And then we were at dinner and then,
and then Taylor orders a salad instead of a steak.
I mean, we took him to a steakhouse and I was like,
Taylor, the steak's on me, like, get whatever you want.
And he's like, no, let's get a salad.
And then we had to like, force him to order a steak.
And he likes steak, I eat steak.
It's not like he's like a vegetarian or something.
He like wanted this like but he was trying to be nice. I was at Taylor like we're locking it. We're getting the steak, bro
It's on me. We're getting the steak
You know what I mean?
Anyway, Taylor. I love you, bro
There we go
There we go
There we go
Chat yeah chat loves Taylor W. Taylor
All right, um
what else? What else? What else? Oh yeah, Pika was telling you guys that I got a salad
apparently at dinner. I just wanted to clarify that yes, I indeed did get a salad in addition
to my steak. I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't know why Pika's mentioning
it like it's a crazy thing. I got a steak and a salad. It's not a big deal at all.
I guess I got I ate my salad first and ate my steak. I don't I don't understand why that's
he said you didn't eat for 30 hours. I did uh I didn't really have time to eat at the event.
So I just did like like omad just one meal a day kind of a thing. I just ate like a big dinner
and uh it's pretty much what we sent.
Eat your greens. It's good. Yeah, I know. I don't know why Pika thought it was a big deal to eat a salad
I maybe maybe it's a big deal for Pika to eat a salad. I have no idea
Does Pika eat vegetables tell the truth no no absolutely not I didn't see peekaboo eat a single vegetable all weekend
Actually, he might have had like one asparagus one stick of a spare. Yeah
No, no, actually, I don't even think he ate that
No, no, the only thing I saw Pika eat all weekend long was steak. That was literally it. Oh
Mashed potatoes, he eats some mashed potatoes and steak
Yeah, mashed potatoes and steak was Pika Boos diet, nothing else
Yeah
Pika lost his voice. Dude, everyone at BlizzCon lost their voice if you're talking. It was
dude. It was a wild weekend. I might go so far as to say that was the wildest weekend
of my life. I think it was. That was the wildest weekend of my life. It was nuts. It was nuts.
real? Yeah, absolutely. That's sad. Why? What? We're sick. What do you mean? What do you mean sad?
Bro, as a kid and got married, I said wildest, not best. Very, very different. Our wedding wasn't
wild our wedding was very like like tame calm very nice very very like the
weekend this weekend was wild wild
as ours first bender nod I'm not a big what does bender mean drinking not a big
drinker I do shots with as fan the bro as fanned win so hard this weekend this
This guy literally throws his own party, everyone shows up, he streams the party to like midnight
or two or three, doesn't go to bed till three or four, we had a call time at seven so we
got up at like six or he slept for like two, three hours then streamed for 15 hours the
next day.
Bro, as fan is like this guy is living on Red Bulls or something like he was ridiculous.
I don't even know he was zonked out.
Yeah, completely crazy.
Yeah, I mean, I slept like the first night, probably five hours,
second night, six or seven, third night, six or seven.
And I felt pretty OK.
I was tired, but I felt like, you know, as fans,
stuff like one hour, that first couple hours here and there's like, brah.
I actually got in a workout at the at the con.
So shout out to the guy that I met in the gym.
We took a photo together.
So that's what's up.
That was cool. What else?
What else happened?
I guess I haven't even done too much story time.
We've been yapping all day about the con,
but I haven't actually told you guys about the con.
You guys have any questions?
Like, I don't I don't know.
What else?
Peek-a-boo, tin and eat salads.
We saw Fritz there.
That was fun.
Went out to dinner with Fritz.
I got to meet literally hundreds of you guys, which was the
sickest thing ever.
Um, tell us about the after parties.
Uh, day one, there was, uh, Blizzard party, which was very
chill, just a couple hundred people.
Cause it was like just Blizzard creators and stuff.
And that was actually very chill, very fun.
Got to talk to Chee Bay.
We met Chee Bay there.
It was great.
Chee Bay meeting Chee Bay was awesome.
He is just like how he was in person, uh, on the internet.
Like he's great.
I met like pretty much every streamer and stuff there.
Peekaboo didn't make it to that party
cause there wasn't a lot of alcohol.
Don't know why that's a factor, but I don't know.
Anyway, Peekaboo decided that it wasn't for him.
Then everyone went to Esfans party first night, Esfans party, Esfans party was too, like, dude,
it went like, there was so many people there, like too many people there, like this room
was just packed, it was crazy, like music, drinks packed, packed, packed, packed, very
full and then I didn't make it, there was another party, I didn't make it to that, I
bed. It was like midnight. So that was time to call cheese for me. Then we woke up, streamed
all day the next day. That's the announcement day. That night we got dinner with Pika and
Fritz and a bunch of people from OnlyFans, OnlyFangs and Ozzy Falls. We got dinner with
Weed Elf, Ozzy Falls.
Who else was there?
It's a massive table of people.
Fritz, was Sardako there, I think?
Sardako was there the first time.
I don't know if he was there the second.
Man, I'm forgetting.
Anyway, it was fun.
It was fun.
It was cool.
So everyone got some good food.
After that, went to bed, next day worked out,
streamed the whole day, got dinner with Pika
and my YouTube editors, and then we sent it off
the next morning, it was quick.
Very, very, very fast.
Is Sardako as bald IRL?
I mean, he's bald, man.
Like, I don't think, I don't know why you need to mention
that, he's bald, like, dude.
Wow, all right.
Did I meet Pops?
Yes, Pops was awesome.
It was legendary to meet Pops.
Rackula?
I met Rackula, yeah.
Did I meet Nobble?
I don't know if I did.
I don't think so.
Shortest male streamer?
Tyler won by a mile.
And then me.
Well, no.
Yeah, well, yeah, probably.
Tyler won by a mile. It's all you need to know
Yeah, I
Saw you an Annie stream. Yeah, we were hanging out with Annie a lot
Annie
as fan
Pika
It's kind of like the crew, you know
Kind of like last year at gamescom same type of thing is cool. It's cool
Tyler won a 6-5. He measured on a stream. I mean, that sounds legit.
Is G-Bay really 6-5? Yeah, G-Bay's really 6-5. He's very tall.
Jimmy. Oh, I met Jimmy. Jimmy was rad. Jimmy was cool.
I feel like...
Yeah, the thing about me is I don't know how to speak.
I'm not the person who's very good in, like,
large social interactions.
I like one-on-one conversations over a long period of time.
Like I like to just chat with one person, like for hours.
No, it's not, no, no, it's, it's no, Nikai's, no, it's not,
no, no, it's not, I'm, look, it's just my personality type.
And what I'm trying to say is,
I would love to chat with G-Bay one-on-one for like hours
or like Jimmy, like every person I met, like Jimmy
would be great to chat in a quiet room for hours.
Here's the thing, this is the thing
they don't tell you about parties.
You can't actually talk to people
because the music is loud and there's so many other people
that you can really only say hi to each person.
But if you can only say hi to each person
then are you really even talking to anyone?
Whereas if you're sitting in a room that's quiet
and you can just chat, maybe you sip some tea or some coffee
and you're just like one-on-one for hours.
Am I crazy here?
Is this just me?
I'm just saying, I feel like every person
I met at the con this weekend,
I would love to just sit alone in a room with,
no, not alone, and it would be one,
I would like to one-on-one chat with them solo.
Is what I'm trying to say, like pops.
Like, I could probably have like a three hour conversation with Pops, Max, same thing.
Like Van Rookie.
Like everyone on my list I wanted to like chat with.
I feel like all I really got to say was like, hey, how are you?
Good.
How's your con?
Good.
And then like, you know, then something, you know, then we had to go somewhere or something.
But yeah, I like, like, like long walks on the beach, you know, like a hike or like a
like a long walk, like a slow pace,
so you can just have this deep conversation.
And don't really, it's like hard to like talk to someone
in like a setting with loud music.
Does that make sense?
Am I right here?
Am I right here, guys?
Hopefully, hopefully, guys know what I'm saying.
Yeah.
Um, you see a little gup was trying to make your mug.
Oh, speaking of my mug.
Some of you guys saw this on some streams, maybe, and I will do an update later.
Someone named Frugo made me an IRL bronze,
I think bronze statue of my WoW character.
This is my, this is my main.
This is my like,
a lot of you that watch me recently don't know this character.
This is my like 20 time rank one mage.
This is like my guy I spent most of my life developing.
He made me an IRL bronze statue that's like this big
and he's shipping it to me.
I saw it, he brought up the BlizzCon
so I could check it out.
I'm gonna put it right back there.
It is so cool if you guys saw it.
It might have been on Esfan's stream
if you guys were watching
or maybe some other people's streams, maybe Annie's.
I saw it.
Yes, if you guys saw it, it was so cool.
Like way cooler in person than I could have ever thought.
I can't wait to show you guys,
but it should be here later in the week.
He said he mailed it.
I don't have it.
I don't have it.
He's mailing it to me.
He posted a picture on Discord.
Um, do you have the pic, Gabby?
You know, Gabby, if you can send it to me.
Anyway, the thing is the picture doesn't do it justice because like,
I kind of knew what it would look like, but it's just like bigger in person,
which was like really nice.
is like really heavy, like really quality.
And anyway, I'll tell you guys,
I'll show you guys more of that like when,
when it actually gets here,
but it was, it was so cool, man.
So that was, that was a big highlight.
Like this character means so much to me
cause I spent so much of my life,
like on this character, you know,
like 15 years on this character or something like long time.
So to actually like have that permanent,
like physical, like bronze statue of it is like
It's like just the cool, you know, it's really cool, man.
It's really cool.
I'll show it to you guys when it gets here in the mail.
What's my slosh plate?
It's only a couple hundred days.
Okay, so this is it.
Oh, that actually does look pretty cool in the picture too.
Like look how big this is.
Like, I'm a pretty big guy.
I'm like six, five.
And so think about how big this is.
Yeah, and it's even cooler in person.
And it's way cooler in person.
Okay, now we're like zooming into my face,
but I just wanted to show you guys the details on it.
It's my same exact transmog from my favorite transmog.
I always use it on retail.
My scythe, it has the scythe, you know?
It's the same weapons, same mugs, same everything.
All my favorite stuff.
And there's under the feet, it's a beach.
And you might think it's sand and some rocks,
like a little beach, you know?
And you might think, why is there a beach?
And when I decided to retire from PVP,
I logged out my main on a beach for retirement.
And that was like, what, four years ago?
And he's still there today.
And I have him logged out there to rest, you know?
Anyway, it's my same log on a beach on my main.
Anyway, it means a lot, but I'll show you guys,
I'll show you guys when it comes in the mail.
Very, very darn cool.
Oh, here, there's another photo too.
I didn't even see this one.
This, you, so this doesn't show you the scale.
Like I feel like it looks smaller here.
It's like massive, but you can see the detailing.
Yeah, you can see the detailing on this one,
but it doesn't, you can't really see the scale as much,
But like the belt, you know, like the details on the belts and like the shoulders, like
it's, it's so cool, bro.
Like I don't, like the thing is, I don't even nerd out on stuff like this, but like
for me, it's more about what it means, you know, it's like such a big deal of what it means.
Anyway, I'll get in the mail.
I'll show you guys in person when it comes in.
Stoked about it.
Looks like Sardocco.
Dude, are you the same guy that was, it's like, all right, man.
Goodness gracious.
All right chat I'm gonna call Chi Chi's for today mainly because well like I don't want
to like run my voice too low tomorrow it's gonna be another big day but then
Thursday is gonna be a big day Thursday we get to check out the beta it's gonna
lit. So tomorrow guys, more BlizzCon stories, more Reacts, more panels, maybe more interviews,
more chats. We'll chill out. Thursday at Beta, okay? Thank you guys for all the support today.
I did a very bad job of reading subs and donations today. I tried my best, but man, I sucked at it.
So if you guys support it today, it means a lot. We'll chat more tomorrow. I'm gonna also spend some
some time with some family.
Yeah, I did last night getting home
and seeing my little guy for the first time in four days.
I know that sounds crazy.
Maybe if you're a parent, it doesn't,
but four days is a long time away.
It felt so good to be back home last night.
Oh my gosh.
All right, I'll see you guys tomorrow.
Have a good one.
We're out of here.
Peace.
you
you